Author Topic: ESPN predicts Celtics to finish #12 in the East.  (Read 32190 times)

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Re: ESPN predicts Celtics to finish #12 in the East.
« Reply #90 on: August 15, 2013, 01:36:41 AM »

Offline Celtics18

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Stevens is about statistical analysis and everyone being on the same page. This means no rolling  the ball midcourt unless time is running out, no gambling on defense, no pounding the rock.

In certain spots, gambling on defense could be the correct play from a mathematical perspective.

which sport is that??

In basketball gambling on defense usually doesn't turn out well.  Rondo taking focus away from his man, trying to go for the steal somewhere else is risky. Player x predicting his player won't go to his left this time, when he can't go right is risky. Stevens wants high percentage plays from the games i've seen him coach. If that guy who can't dribble left very well, beats you going left once or twice, he is not going to care as long as you don't let him beat you going to his right.

Of course it's risky to gamble off your man on defense, but in my opinion it is a risk that is often worth taking.  I actually think that for this team, which has lost its defensive anchor, that risk-taking is something they will have to do more of, not less of, to be successful.

i disagree. Solid in front of your man defense AB/Lee style is the way the team needs to play. If you can take the calculated risk to execute a steal , go for it.

But Rondo gambled way too much and got burnt enough times. This not only cost points but worse tired our defense trying to make up for his mistakes.  It can't happen

So, you agree that at times gambling on defense is worth the risk?
DKC Seventy-Sixers:

PG: G. Hill/D. Schroder
SG: C. Lee/B. Hield/T. Luwawu
SF:  Giannis/J. Lamb/M. Kuzminskas
PF:  E. Ilyasova/J. Jerebko/R. Christmas
C:    N. Vucevic/K. Olynyk/E. Davis/C. Jefferson

Re: ESPN predicts Celtics to finish #12 in the East.
« Reply #91 on: August 15, 2013, 01:42:45 AM »

Offline Celtics18

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Stevens is about statistical analysis and everyone being on the same page. This means no rolling  the ball midcourt unless time is running out, no gambling on defense, no pounding the rock.

No rolling the ball bc it kills time of the 24 sec clock,  and no pounding the rock bc its too easy for the defense to cover their man and waste time on the clock again. Watch some of butler games and you will see the team hot potatoe the ball on top of the key , creating confusion for the defensive team.

These examples will imo clash with the way rondo wants to handle the game. Rondo wants guys to run around like headless chickens and for him to feed the open guy. But there is only 5 sec left by then. Stevens wants to push the ball after rebounds and these years rondo is playing a more halfcourt game.


I'm guessing that Rondo would welcome the opportunity to play an uptempo style that suits his strengths.  If coach Stevens is as smart as everyone says he is, I'm sure that he will tailor a style of play that fits the personnel on his roster.  In my opinion, that means we'll be seeing a much faster pace from the 2013-14 Celtics than we have in the past. 

I'm looking forward to seeing the new version of the Boston Celtics play.  I think they'll be exciting . . . and I think they have a good shot at making this year's playoffs.

No one was stopping Rondo from playing at a faster pace.  Doc kept imploring him through the press (and I assume in person) to pick up the pace and pass the ball ahead more.  Nobody told Rondo to slow walk the ball up the court like he was a gimpy 95 year old while his four teammates waited for him.  I'm referring to an extreme slow walk, to where the ball would cross half court with microseconds to spare even though there was no ball pressure.  That happened more times than with any other team in the league. 

It was almost like a show of power: You'll wait for me, I'm the maestro.  He wouldn't have been allowed to do the same thing earlier in his career; that he came far enough to where it was permitted made it seem like he was showing off his power and status.  Him slightly jogging the ball up the court instead of slow waking would've been a major improvement.

I'm not saying Rondo never pushed the pace.  Of course he did and when he did, he could be spectacularly great or spectacularly turnover prone.  But there were too many instances of taking forever to cross half court.

Rondo averaged more dribbles per game than anybody else in the league.  That's a clock killing statistic; I don't think it was forced upon him.

The reason Rondo didn't pass the ball ahead more often was because there wasn't anyone on his own team ahead of him all that often. 

So, actually, the team as a whole was stopping him from playing at a faster pace. 

Do you have a link to the statistics that show that Rondo dribbles the ball more per game than anyone else in the league?

That there was no one up ahead to pass to is simply not true.  One, that would make for one unbalanced floor.  Rondo often physically came back for the ball.  It would be impossible for him to have any outlet options. And two, the first game Rondo came back I think from his suspension, he was great at throwing the ball up head.  It was really fun to see.  I remember this because it was something I had wanted to see for a long time.  That lasted all of one half.  I assume he got tired of it, preferred to play the half court chess games he loves so he just stopped.

Not to take anything away from Garnett, Pierce, and Allen, but the best players surrounding Rondo were already entering the other side of their respective primes when this team was put together.  They have only gotten older and slower as the years have progressed. 

But, you really think the reason the team wasn't pushing the pace as much as you'd like to see over the course of the last couple of years is simply because Rondo didn't want to?

I happen to think it's more because the team as a whole (outside of Rondo) wasn't really equipped to be an up-tempo team. 

This year's team will be, and I expected to see much more fast paced basketball with one of the best open court players in the league running the show. 
DKC Seventy-Sixers:

PG: G. Hill/D. Schroder
SG: C. Lee/B. Hield/T. Luwawu
SF:  Giannis/J. Lamb/M. Kuzminskas
PF:  E. Ilyasova/J. Jerebko/R. Christmas
C:    N. Vucevic/K. Olynyk/E. Davis/C. Jefferson

Re: ESPN predicts Celtics to finish #12 in the East.
« Reply #92 on: August 15, 2013, 07:39:33 AM »

Offline LilRip

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Stevens is about statistical analysis and everyone being on the same page. This means no rolling  the ball midcourt unless time is running out, no gambling on defense, no pounding the rock.

No rolling the ball bc it kills time of the 24 sec clock,  and no pounding the rock bc its too easy for the defense to cover their man and waste time on the clock again. Watch some of butler games and you will see the team hot potatoe the ball on top of the key , creating confusion for the defensive team.

These examples will imo clash with the way rondo wants to handle the game. Rondo wants guys to run around like headless chickens and for him to feed the open guy. But there is only 5 sec left by then. Stevens wants to push the ball after rebounds and these years rondo is playing a more halfcourt game.


I'm guessing that Rondo would welcome the opportunity to play an uptempo style that suits his strengths.  If coach Stevens is as smart as everyone says he is, I'm sure that he will tailor a style of play that fits the personnel on his roster.  In my opinion, that means we'll be seeing a much faster pace from the 2013-14 Celtics than we have in the past. 

I'm looking forward to seeing the new version of the Boston Celtics play.  I think they'll be exciting . . . and I think they have a good shot at making this year's playoffs.

No one was stopping Rondo from playing at a faster pace.  Doc kept imploring him through the press (and I assume in person) to pick up the pace and pass the ball ahead more.  Nobody told Rondo to slow walk the ball up the court like he was a gimpy 95 year old while his four teammates waited for him.  I'm referring to an extreme slow walk, to where the ball would cross half court with microseconds to spare even though there was no ball pressure.  That happened more times than with any other team in the league. 

It was almost like a show of power: You'll wait for me, I'm the maestro.  He wouldn't have been allowed to do the same thing earlier in his career; that he came far enough to where it was permitted made it seem like he was showing off his power and status.  Him slightly jogging the ball up the court instead of slow waking would've been a major improvement.

I'm not saying Rondo never pushed the pace.  Of course he did and when he did, he could be spectacularly great or spectacularly turnover prone.  But there were too many instances of taking forever to cross half court.

Rondo averaged more dribbles per game than anybody else in the league.  That's a clock killing statistic; I don't think it was forced upon him.

The reason Rondo didn't pass the ball ahead more often was because there wasn't anyone on his own team ahead of him all that often. 

So, actually, the team as a whole was stopping him from playing at a faster pace. 

Do you have a link to the statistics that show that Rondo dribbles the ball more per game than anyone else in the league?

That there was no one up ahead to pass to is simply not true.  One, that would make for one unbalanced floor.  Rondo often physically came back for the ball.  It would be impossible for him to have any outlet options. And two, the first game Rondo came back I think from his suspension, he was great at throwing the ball up head.  It was really fun to see.  I remember this because it was something I had wanted to see for a long time.  That lasted all of one half.  I assume he got tired of it, preferred to play the half court chess games he loves so he just stopped.

Not to take anything away from Garnett, Pierce, and Allen, but the best players surrounding Rondo were already entering the other side of their respective primes when this team was put together.  They have only gotten older and slower as the years have progressed. 

But, you really think the reason the team wasn't pushing the pace as much as you'd like to see over the course of the last couple of years is simply because Rondo didn't want to?

I happen to think it's more because the team as a whole (outside of Rondo) wasn't really equipped to be an up-tempo team. 

This year's team will be, and I expected to see much more fast paced basketball with one of the best open court players in the league running the show.

And it shouldn't come as coincidence that the championship contention window has steadily closed over the years. The first 3 years, we were still favorites, but then the past 3, we began looking more and more like the underdog. The loss of KG and company will be a huge blow.

But I digress from the Rondo-pace debate. Carry on.
- LilRip

Re: ESPN predicts Celtics to finish #12 in the East.
« Reply #93 on: August 15, 2013, 08:06:08 AM »

Offline BballTim

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Stevens is about statistical analysis and everyone being on the same page. This means no rolling  the ball midcourt unless time is running out, no gambling on defense, no pounding the rock.

No rolling the ball bc it kills time of the 24 sec clock,  and no pounding the rock bc its too easy for the defense to cover their man and waste time on the clock again. Watch some of butler games and you will see the team hot potatoe the ball on top of the key , creating confusion for the defensive team.

These examples will imo clash with the way rondo wants to handle the game. Rondo wants guys to run around like headless chickens and for him to feed the open guy. But there is only 5 sec left by then. Stevens wants to push the ball after rebounds and these years rondo is playing a more halfcourt game.


I'm guessing that Rondo would welcome the opportunity to play an uptempo style that suits his strengths.  If coach Stevens is as smart as everyone says he is, I'm sure that he will tailor a style of play that fits the personnel on his roster.  In my opinion, that means we'll be seeing a much faster pace from the 2013-14 Celtics than we have in the past. 

I'm looking forward to seeing the new version of the Boston Celtics play.  I think they'll be exciting . . . and I think they have a good shot at making this year's playoffs.

No one was stopping Rondo from playing at a faster pace.  Doc kept imploring him through the press (and I assume in person) to pick up the pace and pass the ball ahead more.  Nobody told Rondo to slow walk the ball up the court like he was a gimpy 95 year old while his four teammates waited for him.  I'm referring to an extreme slow walk, to where the ball would cross half court with microseconds to spare even though there was no ball pressure.  That happened more times than with any other team in the league. 

  Do you have any evidence of this? I keep hearing that Rondo pounds the ball on every possession until the shot clock runs down and then we get off a desperate shot. The stats show that no such thing happens.

Rondo averaged more dribbles per game than anybody else in the league.  That's a clock killing statistic; I don't think it was forced upon him.

  This isn't true either.

Re: ESPN predicts Celtics to finish #12 in the East.
« Reply #94 on: August 15, 2013, 08:26:00 AM »

Offline BballTim

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Stevens is about statistical analysis and everyone being on the same page. This means no rolling  the ball midcourt unless time is running out, no gambling on defense, no pounding the rock.

No rolling the ball bc it kills time of the 24 sec clock,  and no pounding the rock bc its too easy for the defense to cover their man and waste time on the clock again. Watch some of butler games and you will see the team hot potatoe the ball on top of the key , creating confusion for the defensive team.

These examples will imo clash with the way rondo wants to handle the game. Rondo wants guys to run around like headless chickens and for him to feed the open guy. But there is only 5 sec left by then. Stevens wants to push the ball after rebounds and these years rondo is playing a more halfcourt game.


I'm guessing that Rondo would welcome the opportunity to play an uptempo style that suits his strengths.  If coach Stevens is as smart as everyone says he is, I'm sure that he will tailor a style of play that fits the personnel on his roster.  In my opinion, that means we'll be seeing a much faster pace from the 2013-14 Celtics than we have in the past. 

I'm looking forward to seeing the new version of the Boston Celtics play.  I think they'll be exciting . . . and I think they have a good shot at making this year's playoffs.

No one was stopping Rondo from playing at a faster pace.  Doc kept imploring him through the press (and I assume in person) to pick up the pace and pass the ball ahead more.  Nobody told Rondo to slow walk the ball up the court like he was a gimpy 95 year old while his four teammates waited for him.  I'm referring to an extreme slow walk, to where the ball would cross half court with microseconds to spare even though there was no ball pressure.  That happened more times than with any other team in the league. 

It was almost like a show of power: You'll wait for me, I'm the maestro.  He wouldn't have been allowed to do the same thing earlier in his career; that he came far enough to where it was permitted made it seem like he was showing off his power and status.  Him slightly jogging the ball up the court instead of slow waking would've been a major improvement.

I'm not saying Rondo never pushed the pace.  Of course he did and when he did, he could be spectacularly great or spectacularly turnover prone.  But there were too many instances of taking forever to cross half court.

Rondo averaged more dribbles per game than anybody else in the league.  That's a clock killing statistic; I don't think it was forced upon him.

The reason Rondo didn't pass the ball ahead more often was because there wasn't anyone on his own team ahead of him all that often. 

So, actually, the team as a whole was stopping him from playing at a faster pace. 

Do you have a link to the statistics that show that Rondo dribbles the ball more per game than anyone else in the league?

That there was no one up ahead to pass to is simply not true.  One, that would make for one unbalanced floor.  Rondo often physically came back for the ball.  It would be impossible for him to have any outlet options.

  You have to realize that when Rondo was coming back for the ball the defense is running the other way, so while there might be a player or two up court (generally someone like Bass or Bradley) there are 4-5 defenders with them. Not necessarily great outlet options. When we get a rebound Rondo heads up court and calls for the ball, when he comes back for the ball that means someone's standing near the basket holding the ball. You're blaming Rondo for not running but the opportunity to run is often gone before he ever gets the ball. Also, when you see him walking the ball up court, if you look closely you'd see two players jogging up the court behind him, they had the numbers 5 and 34 on their jerseys.

Re: ESPN predicts Celtics to finish #12 in the East.
« Reply #95 on: August 15, 2013, 08:31:58 AM »

Offline BballTim

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Stevens is about statistical analysis and everyone being on the same page. This means no rolling  the ball midcourt unless time is running out, no gambling on defense, no pounding the rock.

In certain spots, gambling on defense could be the correct play from a mathematical perspective.

which sport is that??

In basketball gambling on defense usually doesn't turn out well.  Rondo taking focus away from his man, trying to go for the steal somewhere else is risky.

  I think it's more a case of your noticing when it doesn't turn out well and not noticing when it doesn't. Rondo will often knock the ball away when someone else's man dribbles too close to him. This, in turn, causes opposing teams to cut back on the number of times they dribble close to where he is. It's disruptive to an offense, although less noticeable than a gamble not turning out well.

Re: ESPN predicts Celtics to finish #12 in the East.
« Reply #96 on: August 15, 2013, 09:02:43 AM »

Offline Boris Badenov

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The Warriors won so much last year because they generally had a very good offense that got to the line a lot, an average defense that was the best defensive rebounding team in the league and then had one of the fastest paces in the league. They got their defensive rebounds, got out on the break and had a good offense that was better than their defense so they generally outscored their opponents and won most of their games.

If David Lee was actually a good defensive force underneath, the Warriors, theoretically, could have had an overall better defense and won even more games. Just because David Lee is a bad defensive player doesn't mean that the Warriors couldn't be a very good team. One thing has very little to do with the other.

Agree and disagree with some of ur pts. Lee is a better defender than most think. Not top level but not basement bad. He makes up his shortcoming of being unathletic with high bbiq and hard work. He really works hard for those rebounds

In addition if the warriors can win mainly bc of great teamwork, so can the celts.


It seems like you didn't read what Nick wrote. "Teamwork" had little to do with it. It was about offensive talent.

The Celtics don't have anything close to that level of offensive talent. All the teamwork in the world won't change that.

I don't think that we are as bereft of offensive talent as some of you seem to.  Rondo is an excellent offensive player, and Jeff Green is a fairly good offensive player as well.  Sully and Olynyk both look like promising young offensive players and even Brandon Bass can hit a mid range jumper. 

I'm hoping for a defense that--although, undoubtedly won't be as highly ranked as when KG was anchoring it--will be a high pressure, high turnover producing one that results in more easy offense and a faster pace than we've seen in recent years. 

I think we have the personnel to be pretty good if we can play a ball-hawking, up tempo style of ball.

I was mostly just saying we don't have the personnel the Warriors do. But I do have pretty serious concerns. Look at it this way: at what positions will we be starting an above-average scorer? Maybe SF, and I think that's it. Rondo's a great set-up guy, but he needs scorers too. And we don't know when he'll be back.

I do see your point (and Nick's above) about picking up the pace. That seems like the right thing to do now that KG is gone, because it's no longer so valuable to get our half court D set every time down the floor without KG playing middle linebacker.

But of course, shooting more quickly and (as Nick says) crashing the boards more will both tend to yield more easy baskets for the other team. So, even if we score more because our pace is higher, we may be giving up even more on the other end.

We'll see. So much is up in the air, from our starting lineup to how Stevens runs our offense and defense. It'll be interesting to see how things play out.

Boris,

Only THREE starting PG's shot a higher percentage than Rondo.  They were Tony Parker, Steve Nash, and Jose Calderon.  Rondo can score.  He just needs to NOW shoot more and he will do that with this roster.

http://www.nba.com/statistics/player/FieldGS.jsp?league=00&season=22012&conf=OVERALL&position=5&splitType=9&splitScope=GAME&qualified=N&yearsExp=-1&splitDD=

Smitty77

I'm not sure why you're talking about shooting percentage. Do you think Tyson Chandler is the greatest scorer in the league?

Rondo shoots a high percentage but scores at a below average rate. He is a great creator of offense for others, but someone needs to put the ball in the hoop.

And while I agree with you that he will probably shoot more on this team, I doubt that would move him much past average. Also, he's returning from ACL surgery. We'll see.

And if Rondo is sitting at the beginning of the year, we will in all likelihood be awful offensively regardless of pace.

Re: ESPN predicts Celtics to finish #12 in the East.
« Reply #97 on: August 15, 2013, 09:08:05 AM »

Offline Boris Badenov

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Stevens is about statistical analysis and everyone being on the same page. This means no rolling  the ball midcourt unless time is running out, no gambling on defense, no pounding the rock.

In certain spots, gambling on defense could be the correct play from a mathematical perspective.

which sport is that??

In basketball gambling on defense usually doesn't turn out well.  Rondo taking focus away from his man, trying to go for the steal somewhere else is risky.

  I think it's more a case of your noticing when it doesn't turn out well and not noticing when it doesn't. Rondo will often knock the ball away when someone else's man dribbles too close to him. This, in turn, causes opposing teams to cut back on the number of times they dribble close to where he is. It's disruptive to an offense, although less noticeable than a gamble not turning out well.

Also there's not too much evidence that Rondo was so focused on other players that he lost track of his own.

He was in the 86th percentile in opponents' points per possession last year. I'm not sure where this stands in terms of point guards overall but I'd bet it's pretty good - I think most of the top players on that list are post defenders.

Re: ESPN predicts Celtics to finish #12 in the East.
« Reply #98 on: August 15, 2013, 11:17:23 AM »

Offline Tr1boy

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Iam actually hoping for rondo to arrive late and want to see what pressey can do a little at first.

This way we can see more of what stevens is about. Pressey also loves to push the ball anytime he has a chance, and is a ab style defender.

I also know its not true that rondo couldnt run bc kg and pp were older slower. When ab and lee was on the court, they ran all the time.

Re: ESPN predicts Celtics to finish #12 in the East.
« Reply #99 on: August 15, 2013, 11:20:25 AM »

Offline LooseCannon

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Stevens is about statistical analysis and everyone being on the same page. This means no rolling  the ball midcourt unless time is running out, no gambling on defense, no pounding the rock.

In certain spots, gambling on defense could be the correct play from a mathematical perspective.

which sport is that??

In basketball gambling on defense usually doesn't turn out well.  Rondo taking focus away from his man, trying to go for the steal somewhere else is risky. Player x predicting his player won't go to his left this time, when he can't go right is risky. Stevens wants high percentage plays from the games i've seen him coach. If that guy who can't dribble left very well, beats you going left once or twice, he is not going to care as long as you don't let him beat you going to his right.

Here are some numbers I made up in a simplified case.  The numbers are not intended to represent accurate real-game scenarios.

Let's say the following happens with normal defense:
The opposing team scores two points 45% of the time and on the following possession will give up two points 40% of the time because they can set their half-court defense.    The 55% of the time that the Celtics get a stop, they score on 50% of possessions because they sometimes have higher percentage opportunities in transition.

Let's say the following happens with a gambling defensive strategy.
Let's say that when gambling works, you give up zero points and have a 70% chance of scoring due to an even higher rate of having transition scoring opportunities.  When gambling doesn't work, you give up points 60% of the time and have a 40% chance of scoring on the following offensive possession.

The value of the first strategy is:
0.45(-2+0.4*2)+0.55(0+.5*2)=0.01

The value of the second strategy is:
x(0+0.7*2)+(1-x)(-2*0.6+0.4*2), where x is the rate at which gambling succeeds.

If I did the arithmetic right, for the value of the second strategy to be higher than than the value of the first strategy, gambling for a steal has to be successful more than 27.8% of the time.

I don't know what the actual value of gambling for a steal is.  I'd guess that always going for a steal is a bad strategy.  I'd guess that never gambling for a steal is also sub-optimal.  Rondo is probably better at stealing the ball than most other point guards, so he should probably be gambling for a steal more often than other players. 



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Re: ESPN predicts Celtics to finish #12 in the East.
« Reply #100 on: August 15, 2013, 11:33:01 AM »

Offline Tr1boy

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Stevens is about statistical analysis and everyone being on the same page. This means no rolling  the ball midcourt unless time is running out, no gambling on defense, no pounding the rock.

In certain spots, gambling on defense could be the correct play from a mathematical perspective.

which sport is that??

In basketball gambling on defense usually doesn't turn out well.  Rondo taking focus away from his man, trying to go for the steal somewhere else is risky. Player x predicting his player won't go to his left this time, when he can't go right is risky. Stevens wants high percentage plays from the games i've seen him coach. If that guy who can't dribble left very well, beats you going left once or twice, he is not going to care as long as you don't let him beat you going to his right.

Here are some numbers I made up in a simplified case.  The numbers are not intended to represent accurate real-game scenarios.

Let's say the following happens with normal defense:
The opposing team scores two points 45% of the time and on the following possession will give up two points 40% of the time because they can set their half-court defense.    The 55% of the time that the Celtics get a stop, they score on 50% of possessions because they sometimes have higher percentage opportunities in transition.

Let's say the following happens with a gambling defensive strategy.
Let's say that when gambling works, you give up zero points and have a 70% chance of scoring due to an even higher rate of having transition scoring opportunities.  When gambling doesn't work, you give up points 60% of the time and have a 40% chance of scoring on the following offensive possession.

The value of the first strategy is:
0.45(-2+0.4*2)+0.55(0+.5*2)=0.01

The value of the second strategy is:
x(0+0.7*2)+(1-x)(-2*0.6+0.4*2), where x is the rate at which gambling succeeds.

If I did the arithmetic right, for the value of the second strategy to be higher than than the value of the first strategy, gambling for a steal has to be successful more than 27.8% of the time.

I don't know what the actual value of gambling for a steal is.  I'd guess that always going for a steal is a bad strategy.  I'd guess that never gambling for a steal is also sub-optimal.  Rondo is probably better at stealing the ball than most other point guards, so he should probably be gambling for a steal more often than other players.

Good post but rondo is not great at stealing the ball.  Id give the green light to ab and lee to steal bc they are bonafide thieves but rondo needs to pick his spot better.

If you gamble or try, get burnt, its a horrible domino effect. A pg especially that is covered by no one or has 2 sec free to shoot jumpers will, usually get the basket.

Players that can stay in front of their man, rotate, not bite on pump fakes, fight through screens, box out guys consistently are the best defenders in the league. Stealing the ball is a luxury and if cant do it 3 out of 4 times success rate , dont do it. Rondo was more like 2 out of 4 times witg his success rate

Re: ESPN predicts Celtics to finish #12 in the East.
« Reply #101 on: August 15, 2013, 11:40:14 AM »

Offline LooseCannon

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Players that can stay in front of their man, rotate, not bite on pump fakes, fight through screens, box out guys consistently are the best defenders in the league. Stealing the ball is a luxury and if cant do it 3 out of 4 times success rate , dont do it. Rondo was more like 2 out of 4 times witg his success rate

I would guess that it would be a no-brainer that you should go for it if you would be successful at stealing the ball 2 our of 4 times.  Consider that the league average FG% is around 45%.  If you could steal the ball 50% of the time, your defense would have to be burnt so badly that it results in a shot that is made over 90% of the time for gambling on a steal to not be worth it.
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Re: ESPN predicts Celtics to finish #12 in the East.
« Reply #102 on: August 15, 2013, 12:03:33 PM »

Offline Celtics18

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  • Tommy Points: 1469
Iam actually hoping for rondo to arrive late and want to see what pressey can do a little at first.

This way we can see more of what stevens is about. Pressey also loves to push the ball anytime he has a chance, and is a ab style defender.

I also know its not true that rondo couldnt run bc kg and pp were older slower. When ab and lee was on the court, they ran all the time.

No one is saying that Rondo couldn't run.  He does run and he did run.  He's probably the best point guard in the league at pushing the ball end to end on the break.  We've seen it countless times, your selective memory notwithstanding. 

The negative hyperbole on one of the best point guards in the league reaches farcical levels sometimes. 
DKC Seventy-Sixers:

PG: G. Hill/D. Schroder
SG: C. Lee/B. Hield/T. Luwawu
SF:  Giannis/J. Lamb/M. Kuzminskas
PF:  E. Ilyasova/J. Jerebko/R. Christmas
C:    N. Vucevic/K. Olynyk/E. Davis/C. Jefferson

Re: ESPN predicts Celtics to finish #12 in the East.
« Reply #103 on: August 15, 2013, 12:32:03 PM »

Offline Tr1boy

  • Paul Pierce
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  • Posts: 27260
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Iam actually hoping for rondo to arrive late and want to see what pressey can do a little at first.

This way we can see more of what stevens is about. Pressey also loves to push the ball anytime he has a chance, and is a ab style defender.

I also know its not true that rondo couldnt run bc kg and pp were older slower. When ab and lee was on the court, they ran all the time.

No one is saying that Rondo couldn't run.  He does run and he did run.  He's probably the best point guard in the league at pushing the ball end to end on the break.  We've seen it countless times, your selective memory notwithstanding. 

The negative hyperbole on one of the best point guards in the league reaches farcical levels sometimes.

Rondo has to run to maximize his skills. He can't/lack of confidence to shoot consistently and almost nil threat from the three, so dribbling slowly up the court like he is Chris Paul, Steph Curry won't work as great. He can still play half court, but he has to work harder and get other guys to run around more to get open.

Re: ESPN predicts Celtics to finish #12 in the East.
« Reply #104 on: August 15, 2013, 12:49:57 PM »

Offline Celtics18

  • Ed Macauley
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  • Posts: 11688
  • Tommy Points: 1469
Iam actually hoping for rondo to arrive late and want to see what pressey can do a little at first.

This way we can see more of what stevens is about. Pressey also loves to push the ball anytime he has a chance, and is a ab style defender.

I also know its not true that rondo couldnt run bc kg and pp were older slower. When ab and lee was on the court, they ran all the time.

No one is saying that Rondo couldn't run.  He does run and he did run.  He's probably the best point guard in the league at pushing the ball end to end on the break.  We've seen it countless times, your selective memory notwithstanding. 

The negative hyperbole on one of the best point guards in the league reaches farcical levels sometimes.

Rondo has to run to maximize his skills. He can't/lack of confidence to shoot consistently and almost nil threat from the three, so dribbling slowly up the court like he is Chris Paul, Steph Curry won't work as great. He can still play half court, but he has to work harder and get other guys to run around more to get open.

Sure, Rondo has to run to maximize his skills.  That's what I've been saying. 
DKC Seventy-Sixers:

PG: G. Hill/D. Schroder
SG: C. Lee/B. Hield/T. Luwawu
SF:  Giannis/J. Lamb/M. Kuzminskas
PF:  E. Ilyasova/J. Jerebko/R. Christmas
C:    N. Vucevic/K. Olynyk/E. Davis/C. Jefferson