ESPN predicts Celtics to finish #12 in the East.

[Tr1boy]

Al jefferson is a poor defensive player and Biyombo has avg iq. I bet zeller will start sooner than later.

Btw you will b disappointed if your expecting to see sully/oly get torched. Its like expecting david lee, nowitzki, zbo to get torched defensively. There is more to defense than blocking 5 shots and grabbing 15 rebounds a game. All the little things are more important actually

But you do see David Lee, Nowitzki, and Z-Bo get torched defensively... especially David Lee. He and Jefferson are two of the worst defenders in the league.

Than how does a torched david lee warriors have the record they did last year? Lee pretty much was the man upfont and bogut cameback late

I know you're not a big fan of expert thinking, but there's this:

The paper’s main point is that new kinds of analytics can reveal the abilities of the NBA’s interior defenders with newfound clarity. But as I did the analyses I couldn’t believe how bad David Lee’s numbers were. My analysis was saying that opponents hit 61 percent of their shots when David Lee was defending near the basket. This is a really high number.

So on a lazy Sunday afternoon after the Daytona 500 racers had sped around their speedway, I was flipping through the channels and noticed that the Warriors were playing in Minnesota. While a normal person may browse right on by this program, I immediately clicked the “OK” button on my remote — note if there were a “Hell Yes” button I would have pushed that instead. This would be a convenient chance to watch David Lee’s defense before the Sloan Conference.

When I flipped the game on there was just over five minutes left in the third quarter. I focused in on Lee. Three of the first four Timberwolves possessions I watched featured such awful David Lee defense that I immediately felt more confident about those “that can’t be right” numbers.

http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-triangle/post/_/id/52811/courtvision-david-lees-interior-defense-a-k-a-the-golden-gate

So how did warriors still win so many games with lee being the main man upfront?

You see some guys here pull a double std that we are doomed with a potential sully/olynyk upfront duo. Yet you see the warriors with lee considered a weak defender still able to somehow win lots of games. Then ppl excuse that basketball is not a one person sport.

[Tr1boy]

Where are the guys who said we will tank/stink bc potential Sully/Olynyk slow unathletic duo upfront will be a disaster on the defensive end. I'd like to hear how then Warriors won so many games with Lee as the main guy upfront.

[rondoallaturca]

You see some guys here pull a double std that we are doomed with a potential sully/olynyk upfront duo. Yet you see the warriors with lee considered a weak defender still able to somehow win lots of games. Then ppl excuse that basketball is not a one person sport.

How is a fact an excuse? Smh.

[nickagneta]

The Warriors won so much last year because they generally had a very good offense that got to the line a lot, an average defense that was the best defensive rebounding team in the league and then had one of the fastest paces in the league. They got their defensive rebounds, got out on the break and had a good offense that was better than their defense so they generally outscored their opponents and won most of their games.

If David Lee was actually a good defensive force underneath, the Warriors, theoretically, could have had an overall better defense and won even more games. Just because David Lee is a bad defensive player doesn't mean that the Warriors couldn't be a very good team. One thing has very little to do with the other.

 

[Tr1boy]

The Warriors won so much last year because they generally had a very good offense that got to the line a lot, an average defense that was the best defensive rebounding team in the league and then had one of the fastest paces in the league. They got their defensive rebounds, got out on the break and had a good offense that was better than their defense so they generally outscored their opponents and won most of their games.

If David Lee was actually a good defensive force underneath, the Warriors, theoretically, could have had an overall better defense and won even more games. Just because David Lee is a bad defensive player doesn't mean that the Warriors couldn't be a very good team. One thing has very little to do with the other.

Agree and disagree with some of ur pts. Lee is a better defender than most think. Not top level but not basement bad. He makes up his shortcoming of being unathletic with high bbiq and hard work. He really works hard for those rebounds

In addition if the warriors can win mainly bc of great teamwork, so can the celts.

[Boris Badenov]

Where are the guys who said we will tank/stink bc potential Sully/Olynyk slow unathletic duo upfront will be a disaster on the defensive end. I'd like to hear how then Warriors won so many games with Lee as the main guy upfront.

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say Steph Curry probably had something to do with it.

More generally, plenty of bad defensive teams win with good offense. Look at the mid-2000s Suns. The fact that they were winning doesn't mean they weren't getting "torched." They just happened to be really, really good offensively. Same with the Warriors last year.

Our problem on the Celtics is that we do not have Steph Curry, David Lee, Steve Nash, Amare Stoudemire or any other players even close to the caliber of those guys offensively.

In fact, we were bad offensively last year, and we just lost two of our top offensive players.

If we play poor defense, we will lose.

Whether Sully and KO are capable or not remains to be seen, but if they are bad defensively and they play lots of minutes, we are in trouble.

[Boris Badenov]

The Warriors won so much last year because they generally had a very good offense that got to the line a lot, an average defense that was the best defensive rebounding team in the league and then had one of the fastest paces in the league. They got their defensive rebounds, got out on the break and had a good offense that was better than their defense so they generally outscored their opponents and won most of their games.

If David Lee was actually a good defensive force underneath, the Warriors, theoretically, could have had an overall better defense and won even more games. Just because David Lee is a bad defensive player doesn't mean that the Warriors couldn't be a very good team. One thing has very little to do with the other.

Agree and disagree with some of ur pts. Lee is a better defender than most think. Not top level but not basement bad. He makes up his shortcoming of being unathletic with high bbiq and hard work. He really works hard for those rebounds

In addition if the warriors can win mainly bc of great teamwork, so can the celts.

It seems like you didn't read what Nick wrote. "Teamwork" had little to do with it. It was about offensive talent.

The Celtics don't have anything close to that level of offensive talent. All the teamwork in the world won't change that.

[chambers]

The Warriors won so much last year because they generally had a very good offense that got to the line a lot, an average defense that was the best defensive rebounding team in the league and then had one of the fastest paces in the league. They got their defensive rebounds, got out on the break and had a good offense that was better than their defense so they generally outscored their opponents and won most of their games.

If David Lee was actually a good defensive force underneath, the Warriors, theoretically, could have had an overall better defense and won even more games. Just because David Lee is a bad defensive player doesn't mean that the Warriors couldn't be a very good team. One thing has very little to do with the other.

Agree and disagree with some of ur pts. Lee is a better defender than most think. Not top level but not basement bad. He makes up his shortcoming of being unathletic with high bbiq and hard work. He really works hard for those rebounds

In addition if the warriors can win mainly bc of great teamwork, so can the celts.

Lol teamwork? They win because they have 2 of the best pure shooters in the NBA and combined tough half court defense with shooters that stretch the floor.
We don't have shooters to stretch the floor for dribble penetration.  When Rondo drives we don't have Pierce or KG or Terry to finish his assists with high % shots. We have Green and Lee.
Dude we stink. We are designed to be poor on both ends.
We have a rookie NBA coach.
We won 50% of our games last year and we might win 32 of 82 this year.

[Celtics18]

The Warriors won so much last year because they generally had a very good offense that got to the line a lot, an average defense that was the best defensive rebounding team in the league and then had one of the fastest paces in the league. They got their defensive rebounds, got out on the break and had a good offense that was better than their defense so they generally outscored their opponents and won most of their games.

If David Lee was actually a good defensive force underneath, the Warriors, theoretically, could have had an overall better defense and won even more games. Just because David Lee is a bad defensive player doesn't mean that the Warriors couldn't be a very good team. One thing has very little to do with the other.

Agree and disagree with some of ur pts. Lee is a better defender than most think. Not top level but not basement bad. He makes up his shortcoming of being unathletic with high bbiq and hard work. He really works hard for those rebounds

In addition if the warriors can win mainly bc of great teamwork, so can the celts.

It seems like you didn't read what Nick wrote. "Teamwork" had little to do with it. It was about offensive talent.

The Celtics don't have anything close to that level of offensive talent. All the teamwork in the world won't change that.

I don't think that we are as bereft of offensive talent as some of you seem to.  Rondo is an excellent offensive player, and Jeff Green is a fairly good offensive player as well.  Sully and Olynyk both look like promising young offensive players and even Brandon Bass can hit a mid range jumper. 

I'm hoping for a defense that--although, undoubtedly won't be as highly ranked as when KG was anchoring it--will be a high pressure, high turnover producing one that results in more easy offense and a faster pace than we've seen in recent years. 

I think we have the personnel to be pretty good if we can play a ball-hawking, up tempo style of ball. 

[nickagneta]

I see the Celtics pushing the pace this year and playing a bunch of fast break offense. That could go a long way to improving the offense that gets set back by having their best mid range jump shooter and best creator of offense leaving.

I see Bradley, Green and Lee being open for a ton of corner threes on the break and I see Sullinger, Humphries, Bass and others being allow to crash the offensive boards for more possessions and easy putbacks, something the Celtics have not allowed their players to do in the past.

So I don't see the Celtics suddenly becoming offensively inept. With Doc's philosophy on offensive rebounding gone and the C's reliance on half court offense due to older players gone, I think the C's offense might actually get better. Maybe less efficientshooting wise(FG%, eFG%, 3PT%) but better overall(more PPG, higher ORTG, higher FT/FGA%, higher ORB%.

The defense without KG though, is going to be a lot worse. He was that important to the defense.

[Boris Badenov]

The Warriors won so much last year because they generally had a very good offense that got to the line a lot, an average defense that was the best defensive rebounding team in the league and then had one of the fastest paces in the league. They got their defensive rebounds, got out on the break and had a good offense that was better than their defense so they generally outscored their opponents and won most of their games.

If David Lee was actually a good defensive force underneath, the Warriors, theoretically, could have had an overall better defense and won even more games. Just because David Lee is a bad defensive player doesn't mean that the Warriors couldn't be a very good team. One thing has very little to do with the other.

Agree and disagree with some of ur pts. Lee is a better defender than most think. Not top level but not basement bad. He makes up his shortcoming of being unathletic with high bbiq and hard work. He really works hard for those rebounds

In addition if the warriors can win mainly bc of great teamwork, so can the celts.

It seems like you didn't read what Nick wrote. "Teamwork" had little to do with it. It was about offensive talent.

The Celtics don't have anything close to that level of offensive talent. All the teamwork in the world won't change that.

I don't think that we are as bereft of offensive talent as some of you seem to.  Rondo is an excellent offensive player, and Jeff Green is a fairly good offensive player as well.  Sully and Olynyk both look like promising young offensive players and even Brandon Bass can hit a mid range jumper. 

I'm hoping for a defense that--although, undoubtedly won't be as highly ranked as when KG was anchoring it--will be a high pressure, high turnover producing one that results in more easy offense and a faster pace than we've seen in recent years. 

I think we have the personnel to be pretty good if we can play a ball-hawking, up tempo style of ball.

I was mostly just saying we don't have the personnel the Warriors do. But I do have pretty serious concerns. Look at it this way: at what positions will we be starting an above-average scorer? Maybe SF, and I think that's it. Rondo's a great set-up guy, but he needs scorers too. And we don't know when he'll be back.

I do see your point (and Nick's above) about picking up the pace. That seems like the right thing to do now that KG is gone, because it's no longer so valuable to get our half court D set every time down the floor without KG playing middle linebacker.

But of course, shooting more quickly and (as Nick says) crashing the boards more will both tend to yield more easy baskets for the other team. So, even if we score more because our pace is higher, we may be giving up even more on the other end.

We'll see. So much is up in the air, from our starting lineup to how Stevens runs our offense and defense. It'll be interesting to see how things play out.

[Celtics18]

The Warriors won so much last year because they generally had a very good offense that got to the line a lot, an average defense that was the best defensive rebounding team in the league and then had one of the fastest paces in the league. They got their defensive rebounds, got out on the break and had a good offense that was better than their defense so they generally outscored their opponents and won most of their games.

If David Lee was actually a good defensive force underneath, the Warriors, theoretically, could have had an overall better defense and won even more games. Just because David Lee is a bad defensive player doesn't mean that the Warriors couldn't be a very good team. One thing has very little to do with the other.

Agree and disagree with some of ur pts. Lee is a better defender than most think. Not top level but not basement bad. He makes up his shortcoming of being unathletic with high bbiq and hard work. He really works hard for those rebounds

In addition if the warriors can win mainly bc of great teamwork, so can the celts.

It seems like you didn't read what Nick wrote. "Teamwork" had little to do with it. It was about offensive talent.

The Celtics don't have anything close to that level of offensive talent. All the teamwork in the world won't change that.

I don't think that we are as bereft of offensive talent as some of you seem to.  Rondo is an excellent offensive player, and Jeff Green is a fairly good offensive player as well.  Sully and Olynyk both look like promising young offensive players and even Brandon Bass can hit a mid range jumper. 

I'm hoping for a defense that--although, undoubtedly won't be as highly ranked as when KG was anchoring it--will be a high pressure, high turnover producing one that results in more easy offense and a faster pace than we've seen in recent years. 

I think we have the personnel to be pretty good if we can play a ball-hawking, up tempo style of ball.

I was mostly just saying we don't have the personnel the Warriors do. But I do have pretty serious concerns. Look at it this way: at what positions will we be starting an above-average scorer? Maybe SF, and I think that's it. Rondo's a great set-up guy, but he needs scorers too. And we don't know when he'll be back.

I do see your point (and Nick's above) about picking up the pace. That seems like the right thing to do now that KG is gone, because it's no longer so valuable to get our half court D set every time down the floor without KG playing middle linebacker.

But of course, shooting more quickly and (as Nick says) crashing the boards more will both tend to yield more easy baskets for the other team. So, even if we score more because our pace is higher, we may be giving up even more on the other end.

We'll see. So much is up in the air, from our starting lineup to how Stevens runs our offense and defense. It'll be interesting to see how things play out.

I have grown to fall in love with our defensive, half court style over the years, but I just don't think this team will be suited to that at all. 

I'm in agreement that our defense will suffer by pushing the pace, but it's our best option.  If we don't try to push the pace, both our defense and our offense will suffer. 

Not that I've been in a hurry, but I have been waiting patiently to see what the Celtics will look like with Rajon Rondo free to push the pace and create.  I think we'll now get to see that (I just hope he's healthy).

[LilRip]

Where are the guys who said we will tank/stink bc potential Sully/Olynyk slow unathletic duo upfront will be a disaster on the defensive end. I'd like to hear how then Warriors won so many games with Lee as the main guy upfront.

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say Steph Curry probably had something to do with it.

More generally, plenty of bad defensive teams win with good offense. Look at the mid-2000s Suns. The fact that they were winning doesn't mean they weren't getting "torched." They just happened to be really, really good offensively. Same with the Warriors last year.

Our problem on the Celtics is that we do not have Steph Curry, David Lee, Steve Nash, Amare Stoudemire or any other players even close to the caliber of those guys offensively.

In fact, we were bad offensively last year, and we just lost two of our top offensive players.

If we play poor defense, we will lose.

Whether Sully and KO are capable or not remains to be seen, but if they are bad defensively and they play lots of minutes, we are in trouble.

Lol took the words right out of my mouth.

And though KO has yet to play an NBA game, I'm going to go out on a limb and say that David Lee will have better rebounding numbers than him

[D.o.s.]

Where are the guys who said we will tank/stink bc potential Sully/Olynyk slow unathletic duo upfront will be a disaster on the defensive end. I'd like to hear how then Warriors won so many games with Lee as the main guy upfront.

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say Steph Curry probably had something to do with it.

More generally, plenty of bad defensive teams win with good offense. Look at the mid-2000s Suns. The fact that they were winning doesn't mean they weren't getting "torched." They just happened to be really, really good offensively. Same with the Warriors last year.

Our problem on the Celtics is that we do not have Steph Curry, David Lee, Steve Nash, Amare Stoudemire or any other players even close to the caliber of those guys offensively.

In fact, we were bad offensively last year, and we just lost two of our top offensive players.

If we play poor defense, we will lose.

Whether Sully and KO are capable or not remains to be seen, but if they are bad defensively and they play lots of minutes, we are in trouble.

Agreed, this year's Warrior's squad seemed a bit like a Chinatown bootleg version of those Seven Seconds or Less Suns teams.

Curry for Nash
Thompson for Joe Johnson
David Lee for A'mare
etc.

[Tr1boy]

The Warriors won so much last year because they generally had a very good offense that got to the line a lot, an average defense that was the best defensive rebounding team in the league and then had one of the fastest paces in the league. They got their defensive rebounds, got out on the break and had a good offense that was better than their defense so they generally outscored their opponents and won most of their games.

If David Lee was actually a good defensive force underneath, the Warriors, theoretically, could have had an overall better defense and won even more games. Just because David Lee is a bad defensive player doesn't mean that the Warriors couldn't be a very good team. One thing has very little to do with the other.

Agree and disagree with some of ur pts. Lee is a better defender than most think. Not top level but not basement bad. He makes up his shortcoming of being unathletic with high bbiq and hard work. He really works hard for those rebounds

In addition if the warriors can win mainly bc of great teamwork, so can the celts.

It seems like you didn't read what Nick wrote. "Teamwork" had little to do with it. It was about offensive talent.

The Celtics don't have anything close to that level of offensive talent. All the teamwork in the world won't change that.

I don't think that we are as bereft of offensive talent as some of you seem to.  Rondo is an excellent offensive player, and Jeff Green is a fairly good offensive player as well.  Sully and Olynyk both look like promising young offensive players and even Brandon Bass can hit a mid range jumper. 

I'm hoping for a defense that--although, undoubtedly won't be as highly ranked as when KG was anchoring it--will be a high pressure, high turnover producing one that results in more easy offense and a faster pace than we've seen in recent years. 

I think we have the personnel to be pretty good if we can play a ball-hawking, up tempo style of ball.

I was mostly just saying we don't have the personnel the Warriors do. But I do have pretty serious concerns. Look at it this way: at what positions will we be starting an above-average scorer? Maybe SF, and I think that's it. Rondo's a great set-up guy, but he needs scorers too. And we don't know when he'll be back.

I do see your point (and Nick's above) about picking up the pace. That seems like the right thing to do now that KG is gone, because it's no longer so valuable to get our half court D set every time down the floor without KG playing middle linebacker.

But of course, shooting more quickly and (as Nick says) crashing the boards more will both tend to yield more easy baskets for the other team. So, even if we score more because our pace is higher, we may be giving up even more on the other end.

We'll see. So much is up in the air, from our starting lineup to how Stevens runs our offense and defense. It'll be interesting to see how things play out.

I have grown to fall in love with our defensive, half court style over the years, but I just don't think this team will be suited to that at all. 

I'm in agreement that our defense will suffer by pushing the pace, but it's our best option.  If we don't try to push the pace, both our defense and our offense will suffer. 

Not that I've been in a hurry, but I have been waiting patiently to see what the Celtics will look like with Rajon Rondo free to push the pace and create.  I think we'll now get to see that (I just hope he's healthy).

Stevens is about statistical analysis and everyone being on the same page. This means no rolling  the ball midcourt unless time is running out, no gambling on defense, no pounding the rock.

No rolling the ball bc it kills time of the 24 sec clock,  and no pounding the rock bc its too easy for the defense to cover their man and waste time on the clock again. Watch some of butler games and you will see the team hot potatoe the ball on top of the key , creating confusion for the defensive team.

These examples will imo clash with the way rondo wants to handle the game. Rondo wants guys to run around like headless chickens and for him to feed the open guy. But there is only 5 sec left by then. Stevens wants to push the ball after rebounds and these years rondo is playing a more halfcourt game.