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Pierce: I might still be a Celtic if Rondo didn't get injured
« on: August 11, 2013, 05:04:45 PM »

Online rocknrollforyoursoul

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Interesting tidbit from a Pierce interview (from the Herald via Yardbarker.com):

Quote
Brooklyn Nets forward Paul Pierce says he might still be a Celtic if Rajon Rondo hadn’t torn his ACL.

“It was like a domino effect,” Pierce said. “It was like (the Rondo injury) was there and then Doc. When you put all that stuff together, you know the writing was on the wall.”

Rondo's injury may go down as one of the greatest "what if" scenarios in Celtics history: What if Rondo didn't get injured? Maybe the Celtics go deep into the playoffs, and since Rondo wouldn't be possibly missing time at the start of the upcoming season, maybe Danny decides that "one more run" is the right way to go, so Doc stays, Danny doesn't trade Pierce and KG, and (presuming they're having a good season), Danny even keeps the team together at the deadline Does Pierce and/or KG then retire a Celtic? Or does basically everything still shake out the same way, only a year later?
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Re: Pierce: I might still be a Celtic if Rondo didn't get injured
« Reply #1 on: August 11, 2013, 05:13:51 PM »

Offline CelticConcourse

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Definitely not one of the greatest "what-ifs", we were "old"
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Re: Pierce: I might still be a Celtic if Rondo didn't get injured
« Reply #2 on: August 11, 2013, 05:23:16 PM »

Offline Boris Badenov

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Interesting tidbit from a Pierce interview (from the Herald via Yardbarker.com):

Quote
Brooklyn Nets forward Paul Pierce says he might still be a Celtic if Rajon Rondo hadn’t torn his ACL.

“It was like a domino effect,” Pierce said. “It was like (the Rondo injury) was there and then Doc. When you put all that stuff together, you know the writing was on the wall.”

Rondo's injury may go down as one of the greatest "what if" scenarios in Celtics history: What if Rondo didn't get injured? Maybe the Celtics go deep into the playoffs, and since Rondo wouldn't be possibly missing time at the start of the upcoming season, maybe Danny decides that "one more run" is the right way to go, so Doc stays, Danny doesn't trade Pierce and KG, and (presuming they're having a good season), Danny even keeps the team together at the deadline Does Pierce and/or KG then retire a Celtic? Or does basically everything still shake out the same way, only a year later?

Seems possible to me, although even with a healthy Rondo we were struggling. Who knows whether we could have put it together by the playoffs.

Funny to think that another PG's ACL injury one year earlier - Rose's - might have been the deciding factor in our running at back for 2012-13 in the first place.

Re: Pierce: I might still be a Celtic if Rondo didn't get injured
« Reply #3 on: August 11, 2013, 05:33:49 PM »

Offline Sketch5

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What if PP could get more than 3 inchs off he ground and more than a 5 foot arc on his shot?

Man I love PP, but this kinda burns me. It wasn't just one thing that lead to every thing. The team wasn't that good before Rondo went down.

Yeah the injurys to Rondo,Sully and Barbosa were a huge deal. But I think some one is forgetting that he was averaging 5 turn over a game in the playoffs.

DA saw the scribbles before Rondo went down, and the writing got much clearer in the playoffs. It was just time.   

Re: Pierce: I might still be a Celtic if Rondo didn't get injured
« Reply #4 on: August 11, 2013, 05:47:54 PM »

Offline lightspeed5

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What if PP could get more than 3 inchs off he ground and more than a 5 foot arc on his shot?

Man I love PP, but this kinda burns me. It wasn't just one thing that lead to every thing. The team wasn't that good before Rondo went down.

Yeah the injurys to Rondo,Sully and Barbosa were a huge deal. But I think some one is forgetting that he was averaging 5 turn over a game in the playoffs.

DA saw the scribbles before Rondo went down, and the writing got much clearer in the playoffs. It was just time.
are you one of those guys who thinks playoff rondo and regular season rondo are the same player?

Re: Pierce: I might still be a Celtic if Rondo didn't get injured
« Reply #5 on: August 11, 2013, 05:57:26 PM »

Offline hpantazo

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Major "What ifs" in the new big 3 era:

-What if KG had never had his bone spurs and had not missed the playoffs?

-What if Perkins never blew his acl in the Finals?

-What if Wade had never snapped Rondo's elbow and taken him out of the playoffs?

-What if Rondo never tore his acl?

Minor "What ifs":

-what if Ray was never hobbled by bone spurs?

-What if Shaq had held up for half a season more?

-What if we had re-signed Tony Allen?

-What if the deal to send Ray to Memphis had not fallen through?

We had a great run in 2008, but [dang], we had some rotten luck since then.

Re: Pierce: I might still be a Celtic if Rondo didn't get injured
« Reply #6 on: August 11, 2013, 06:06:56 PM »

Offline CelticConcourse

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I think the biggest what if that everyone talks about way too much is "Should we have traded Perk for Green?" I'm going with the affirmative here. Gr<3n ftw
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Re: Pierce: I might still be a Celtic if Rondo didn't get injured
« Reply #7 on: August 11, 2013, 06:08:41 PM »

Offline gpap

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I think Paul is making a fair point.

In so many words, what he's trying to say is the team needed either a "go to guy" and/or someone to set the pace.

Last year, after Rondo went down, the team no longer had a guy to set the pace or a "go to guy."

Personally, I am not sure that even Rondo is that guy nor do I think the Celts would've gone further with Rondo, but I think it's a fair point.

Paul certainly was no longer that "go to guy" and I think he's acknowledging that in so many ways.

The next question that I think bears asking is did Danny Ainge do enough to provide Paul and KG the most help and support he could get to help them win one more title in Boston?

Because if you ask me, in the last two years, Danny Ainge hasn't done much >:(
 


Re: Pierce: I might still be a Celtic if Rondo didn't get injured
« Reply #8 on: August 11, 2013, 06:17:47 PM »

Offline hpantazo

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I think the biggest what if that everyone talks about way too much is "Should we have traded Perk for Green?" I'm going with the affirmative here. Gr<3n ftw

I think everyone on here talks about that, but it not even close to the biggest what-if in that era imo, which is why I left it off my list.

Re: Pierce: I might still be a Celtic if Rondo didn't get injured
« Reply #9 on: August 11, 2013, 06:19:14 PM »

Offline Boris Badenov

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I think Paul is making a fair point.

In so many words, what he's trying to say is the team needed either a "go to guy" and/or someone to set the pace.

Last year, after Rondo went down, the team no longer had a guy to set the pace or a "go to guy."

Personally, I am not sure that even Rondo is that guy nor do I think the Celts would've gone further with Rondo, but I think it's a fair point.

Paul certainly was no longer that "go to guy" and I think he's acknowledging that in so many ways.

The next question that I think bears asking is did Danny Ainge do enough to provide Paul and KG the most help and support he could get to help them win one more title in Boston?

Because if you ask me, in the last two years, Danny Ainge hasn't done much >:(

Pierce himself was very complimentary of the job Danny did in putting together the 2012-2013 squad for the "last run."

http://network.yardbarker.com/nba/article_external/paul_pierce_a_little_bitter_over_ray_going_to_miami_excited_about_new_celtics/11369512

I think the consensus in the media was also that Danny did well given the limited resources at his disposal.

Re: Pierce: I might still be a Celtic if Rondo didn't get injured
« Reply #10 on: August 11, 2013, 06:28:24 PM »

Offline CelticConcourse

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I think Paul is making a fair point.

In so many words, what he's trying to say is the team needed either a "go to guy" and/or someone to set the pace.

Last year, after Rondo went down, the team no longer had a guy to set the pace or a "go to guy."

Personally, I am not sure that even Rondo is that guy nor do I think the Celts would've gone further with Rondo, but I think it's a fair point.

Paul certainly was no longer that "go to guy" and I think he's acknowledging that in so many ways.

The next question that I think bears asking is did Danny Ainge do enough to provide Paul and KG the most help and support he could get to help them win one more title in Boston?

Because if you ask me, in the last two years, Danny Ainge hasn't done much >:(
You've got to be kidding me. Danny Ainge is the last person to blame here. He did so much, signing players like Mickael Pietrus, Shasha Pavlovic, Marquis Daniels, Keyon Dooling, Ryan Hollins, Jermaine O'Neal, Steamerman, Jason Collins, Leandro Barbosa, Darko Milicic and a buncha other guys to keep our not-a-contender team in contender-status. Do you really think we could've made it to a Game 7 with such an old team without that depth? I don't think so. Not to mention, he made great trades earning us Brandon Bass, Courtney Lee, and Jason Terry. Plus he made a fantastic move to send away Perk to get Green.. had he been healthy we might've had banner 18 by now; coulda really helped us in the series against Miami, dontcha think? Then he drafted an absolute steal called Jared Sullinger with the 21st pick. Sure, the moves might not have all panned out but to blame him is obnoxious; he's a top GM in this league and if you wanna blame something, blame injuries.
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Re: Pierce: I might still be a Celtic if Rondo didn't get injured
« Reply #11 on: August 11, 2013, 07:01:52 PM »

Offline Rhyso

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I think Paul is making a fair point.

In so many words, what he's trying to say is the team needed either a "go to guy" and/or someone to set the pace.

Last year, after Rondo went down, the team no longer had a guy to set the pace or a "go to guy."

Personally, I am not sure that even Rondo is that guy nor do I think the Celts would've gone further with Rondo, but I think it's a fair point.

Paul certainly was no longer that "go to guy" and I think he's acknowledging that in so many ways.

The next question that I think bears asking is did Danny Ainge do enough to provide Paul and KG the most help and support he could get to help them win one more title in Boston?

Because if you ask me, in the last two years, Danny Ainge hasn't done much >:(
You've got to be kidding me. Danny Ainge is the last person to blame here. He did so much, signing players like Mickael Pietrus, Shasha Pavlovic, Marquis Daniels, Keyon Dooling, Ryan Hollins, Jermaine O'Neal, Steamerman, Jason Collins, Leandro Barbosa, Darko Milicic and a buncha other guys to keep our not-a-contender team in contender-status. Do you really think we could've made it to a Game 7 with such an old team without that depth? I don't think so. Not to mention, he made great trades earning us Brandon Bass, Courtney Lee, and Jason Terry. Plus he made a fantastic move to send away Perk to get Green.. had he been healthy we might've had banner 18 by now; coulda really helped us in the series against Miami, dontcha think? Then he drafted an absolute steal called Jared Sullinger with the 21st pick. Sure, the moves might not have all panned out but to blame him is obnoxious; he's a top GM in this league and if you wanna blame something, blame injuries.

Out of all those players you mention, i can only see Terry and Barbosa as being a difference maker in a game. Fact is in the last 2 years Danny didn't add a significant piece to better the team significantly. A lot of nice role players were signed, but what was actually needed was a borderline all-star either a PF or Center (Big Al, Jsmoove, Gortat).

And don't tell me we didn't have the assets to get another player in, we did. We had draft picks to send out, Bradley, Sully, Melo and any other player not named Rondo, Pierce, KG or Green. Danny wouldn't give these guys a legit chance to win, he was looking at the future 2 years ago instead of trying to win with a group that is a proven winner already.

Re: Pierce: I might still be a Celtic if Rondo didn't get injured
« Reply #12 on: August 11, 2013, 07:25:43 PM »

Offline gpap

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I think Paul is making a fair point.

In so many words, what he's trying to say is the team needed either a "go to guy" and/or someone to set the pace.

Last year, after Rondo went down, the team no longer had a guy to set the pace or a "go to guy."

Personally, I am not sure that even Rondo is that guy nor do I think the Celts would've gone further with Rondo, but I think it's a fair point.

Paul certainly was no longer that "go to guy" and I think he's acknowledging that in so many ways.

The next question that I think bears asking is did Danny Ainge do enough to provide Paul and KG the most help and support he could get to help them win one more title in Boston?

Because if you ask me, in the last two years, Danny Ainge hasn't done much >:(
You've got to be kidding me. Danny Ainge is the last person to blame here. He did so much, signing players like Mickael Pietrus, Shasha Pavlovic, Marquis Daniels, Keyon Dooling, Ryan Hollins, Jermaine O'Neal, Steamerman, Jason Collins, Leandro Barbosa, Darko Milicic and a buncha other guys to keep our not-a-contender team in contender-status. Do you really think we could've made it to a Game 7 with such an old team without that depth? I don't think so. Not to mention, he made great trades earning us Brandon Bass, Courtney Lee, and Jason Terry. Plus he made a fantastic move to send away Perk to get Green.. had he been healthy we might've had banner 18 by now; coulda really helped us in the series against Miami, dontcha think? Then he drafted an absolute steal called Jared Sullinger with the 21st pick. Sure, the moves might not have all panned out but to blame him is obnoxious; he's a top GM in this league and if you wanna blame something, blame injuries.

No, I am not kidding nor do I think pinning responsibility on Ainge is obnoxious. LIke the poster above me mentioned, none of the guys you mentioned are guys that could and would help us contend.

They were all role players and quite frankly most of them weren't very good (Pavlovic, Dooling, Hollins, Lee, Terry, etc.) And Darko Milicic? He was off the 2012-13 roster before the season even began.

As for your reference to the Perk/Green deal, sorry but so far I fail to see how that trade benefited the Celtics.

In 2010/11, the Celts were on a roll and Ainge made a very unnecessary move by dealing Perk considering Shaq was not 100 percent.

This year, we needed another big, badly. Instead of signing Birdman or KMart for the minimum, Ainge brought in a bunch of guys from China who contributed nothing.


Re: Pierce: I might still be a Celtic if Rondo didn't get injured
« Reply #13 on: August 11, 2013, 07:39:49 PM »

Offline CelticConcourse

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No, I am not kidding nor do I think pinning responsibility on Ainge is obnoxious. LIke the poster above me mentioned, none of the guys you mentioned are guys that could and would help us contend.

They were all role players and quite frankly most of them weren't very good (Pavlovic, Dooling, Hollins, Lee, Terry, etc.) And Darko Milicic? He was off the 2012-13 roster before the season even began.

As for your reference to the Perk/Green deal, sorry but so far I fail to see how that trade benefited the Celtics.

In 2010/11, the Celts were on a roll and Ainge made a very unnecessary move by dealing Perk considering Shaq was not 100 percent.

This year, we needed another big, badly. Instead of signing Birdman or KMart for the minimum, Ainge brought in a bunch of guys from China who contributed nothing.

First off, we came much closer to the Finals in 2011-12 so I believe moves he made that season and the preseason prior ought to take priority when considering overall value. Boston wants championships, not second-round exits. We made a bunch of fantastic moves which really paid off in the Playoffs; Steamer was a steal and a great second big off the bench who played a crucial role in us even making the playoffs, never mind advancing. Dooling hit threes for us in the Playoffs (remember how we were 0/18 in the Philly series and didn't make a three till what, game three? Yeah, Dooling saved us there). Even Ryan Hollins made an impact and played minutes. Good thing we signed him because had we not, we wouldn't have even had a full roster. Injuries plagued us, no doubt, and Danny did a great job in keeping us competitive and without him, we never would've come as close to the championship as we did. Did anybody really think we were gonna push Miami to 7? Most of the analysts counted us out in February!

The next offseason was even better. We started off by drafting a steal at 21, named Jared Sullinger. He of the double-double per36. And then remember that fantastic deal we pulled off to net Courtney Lee? Remember how good he was in Houston the season prior? The perfect 3-and-D player that cost us only E'Twaun, JJuan and Sean Williams (what a great signing by the forward-thinking Danny, right?). Courtney Lee was lights out from trey in Houston and had it been any other GM but Danny, I doubt we would've been able to land a top-10 SG. Yet we did. Now how about the midseason, where we made a great deal to get ourselves out of Jason Collins and an injured Leandro Barbosa to land a healthy player in Jordan Crawford. Who else could have traded a player with a torn ACL and a big who averages 1/1 for a decent bench player? A great under-the-radar move.

Did I even mention that great deal we made by trading Glen Davis for Brandon Bass? BBass is a solid PF and he had a fantastic year in 2011-12 and without him, we DEFINITELY wouldn't have advanced as far as we did. It looked like a lateral move at the time, but looked at the advanced metrics now: we clearly won that deal.

I'm not going to go in the details on Mickael Pietrus who was a great Celtic that could make a three. I'm not going to go in the details on Darko Milicic who looked like a decent option to most Celtics fans (it was DOC, not Danny who made him leave). I'm not going to go into the great deal we made to send Pierce/KG/Terry off for a bevy of first-rounders that will surely help us out in the future.

The past two years have been full of great moves by Danny, and I still think Green was a fantastic deal. Regardless, that was more than two years ago anyways and I don't really feel like arguing that out.

Danny is a top GM and without him we'd have been in the lottery two seasons ago.
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Re: Pierce: I might still be a Celtic if Rondo didn't get injured
« Reply #14 on: August 11, 2013, 07:43:33 PM »

Offline LooseCannon

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This year, we needed another big, badly. Instead of signing Birdman or KMart for the minimum, Ainge brought in a bunch of guys from China who contributed nothing.

Looking at the timeline, it sounds very possible that Ainge was considering bringing in Kenyon Martin but Rondo being injured may have been the deciding factor.  If not that, then Sullinger going down.
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