Author Topic: Pierce: I might still be a Celtic if Rondo didn't get injured  (Read 13941 times)

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Re: Pierce: I might still be a Celtic if Rondo didn't get injured
« Reply #30 on: August 12, 2013, 10:26:13 AM »

Offline KGs Knee

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The only "what if" scenario that I think really could have been avoided, and will forever haunt me were KG's bone spurs.  The team doctors knew about them before the 2008 season even started, and they just let it go.

KG should have had them removed at the time.  We probably three-peat.

Re: Pierce: I might still be a Celtic if Rondo didn't get injured
« Reply #31 on: August 12, 2013, 10:28:08 AM »

Offline Roy H.

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I think Pierce is right.  Or, at least, that was the plan.  Danny gave KG a no-trade clause and signed Terry, Lee, Bass, etc. to long-term contracts.  I imagine that he did that thinking that the team was going to try to win-now for the length of KG's contract.

Rondo's injury changed things, and was probably the event that changed ownership's thinking about the viability of winning now.


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Re: Pierce: I might still be a Celtic if Rondo didn't get injured
« Reply #32 on: August 12, 2013, 11:05:14 AM »

Offline manl_lui

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I think Pierce is right.  Or, at least, that was the plan.  Danny gave KG a no-trade clause and signed Terry, Lee, Bass, etc. to long-term contracts.  I imagine that he did that thinking that the team was going to try to win-now for the length of KG's contract.

Rondo's injury changed things, and was probably the event that changed ownership's thinking about the viability of winning now.

always a major injury that changes things...it sucks cuz everybody loved PP and KG!

Always a what-if! What if Rondo was healthy, where would we end up? For once I hope the Celtics had a healthy season :(

Re: Pierce: I might still be a Celtic if Rondo didn't get injured
« Reply #33 on: August 13, 2013, 10:54:58 AM »

Offline rondoallaturca

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It's interesting Pierce talks as if he KNOWS that Rondo won't be ready by training camp. Maybe I'm looking into it too much, but perhaps Rondo really will be held out to start the season?

Re: Pierce: I might still be a Celtic if Rondo didn't get injured
« Reply #34 on: August 13, 2013, 12:31:52 PM »

Offline rocknrollforyoursoul

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The only "what if" scenario that I think really could have been avoided, and will forever haunt me were KG's bone spurs.  The team doctors knew about them before the 2008 season even started, and they just let it go.

KG should have had them removed at the time.  We probably three-peat.

I didn't know this. Is it generally known that this was the case? Can you cite sources? If this is true, I may be more saddened than I already am about KG's knee—the biggest "what if?" of this Celtics era.
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Re: Pierce: I might still be a Celtic if Rondo didn't get injured
« Reply #35 on: August 13, 2013, 12:34:17 PM »

Offline slamtheking

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I think Pierce is right.  Or, at least, that was the plan.  Danny gave KG a no-trade clause and signed Terry, Lee, Bass, etc. to long-term contracts.  I imagine that he did that thinking that the team was going to try to win-now for the length of KG's contract.

Rondo's injury changed things, and was probably the event that changed ownership's thinking about the viability of winning now.
That's what I had offered in several forums going around at the time.  Danny was locking this crew in for a few years and gambling on everyone's health for that timeframe.  Rondo's injury crapped all over those plans.

For me, the biggest what-ifs are the ones that determine titles.
- KG's injury in 2009.  that to me is the biggest because I truly believe it hindered his play the next season as well.  I really think we could have 3-peated had he been continuously healthy.

- Powe's injury in 2009.  With Powe, we would have had a competent 3rd big man to throw at Orlando to get to the finals.  We needed another productive frontcourt player to go with Perk and Big Baby.  We may not have beaten LA with just Powe and no KG but we'd have gotten to the finals.

- Perk's injury in 2010 finals.  With Perk in game 7 there'd be many less offensive boards for LA and therefore less second-chance points keeping them in the game.

- Team laissez-faire attitude second half of 2010.  Team played like crap (only the playoffs matter BS) after Christmas and it cost them homecourt advantage against LA.  If game 7 is in Boston we win.

- Sheed's severe lack of conditioning in 2010.  if he comes to camp in shape instead of playing into shape, maybe he has the stamina to produce more in game 7 as opposed to fading away.

- Shaq's health in 2011.  If he's healthy enough to play the season and the playoffs, we have enough firepower to outplay the Heat who have no answer for him.  Love Perk, hated the trade (at the time and the following year) and really appreciated the effort he made to come back early from his injury but he wouldn't have been a difference maker in that series.  C's needed Shaq's offensive threat and defensive presense to win that series.  I really think his presense would have made Green's absense and Rondo's injury moot.

Re: Pierce: I might still be a Celtic if Rondo didn't get injured
« Reply #36 on: August 13, 2013, 01:08:15 PM »

Offline gpap

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I think Pierce is right.  Or, at least, that was the plan.  Danny gave KG a no-trade clause and signed Terry, Lee, Bass, etc. to long-term contracts.  I imagine that he did that thinking that the team was going to try to win-now for the length of KG's contract.

Rondo's injury changed things, and was probably the event that changed ownership's thinking about the viability of winning now.
That's what I had offered in several forums going around at the time.  Danny was locking this crew in for a few years and gambling on everyone's health for that timeframe.  Rondo's injury crapped all over those plans.

For me, the biggest what-ifs are the ones that determine titles.
- KG's injury in 2009.  that to me is the biggest because I truly believe it hindered his play the next season as well.  I really think we could have 3-peated had he been continuously healthy.

- Powe's injury in 2009.  With Powe, we would have had a competent 3rd big man to throw at Orlando to get to the finals.  We needed another productive frontcourt player to go with Perk and Big Baby.  We may not have beaten LA with just Powe and no KG but we'd have gotten to the finals.

- Perk's injury in 2010 finals.  With Perk in game 7 there'd be many less offensive boards for LA and therefore less second-chance points keeping them in the game.

- Team laissez-faire attitude second half of 2010.  Team played like crap (only the playoffs matter BS) after Christmas and it cost them homecourt advantage against LA.  If game 7 is in Boston we win.

- Sheed's severe lack of conditioning in 2010.  if he comes to camp in shape instead of playing into shape, maybe he has the stamina to produce more in game 7 as opposed to fading away.

- Shaq's health in 2011.  If he's healthy enough to play the season and the playoffs, we have enough firepower to outplay the Heat who have no answer for him.  Love Perk, hated the trade (at the time and the following year) and really appreciated the effort he made to come back early from his injury but he wouldn't have been a difference maker in that series.  C's needed Shaq's offensive threat and defensive presense to win that series.  I really think his presense would have made Green's absense and Rondo's injury moot.

What I put in bold is a very good point you made. I don't know that there has ever been another season with so many ups and downs like the 2009-10 season.

That year, the Celts had a championship caliber team. But that lack of effort and hustle they displayed after their 23-5 start on Christmas drove me nuts.

I understand people are quick to blame the Perk injury and the bad officiating in the finals that year.

BUT, if the Celts had earned home court in the 2010 finals, banner 18 would be hanging even as we speak.

Also, I can't help but wonder if that was the year that Danny should've pulled the trigger on a deadline blockbuster.

Correct me if I am wrong, but at the 2010 deadline wasn't Danny looking to make a deal to land Carlos Boozer from Utah and Andre Iguodala from Philly?

IIRC, he was going to deal Ray and Perk.

Because Ray was awful in the '10 finals and Perk hurt himself before game 7, I wonder if that was the year Danny should've made "the trade" instead of in 2011 in dealing Perk for Jeff Green.

Re: Pierce: I might still be a Celtic if Rondo didn't get injured
« Reply #37 on: August 13, 2013, 01:11:00 PM »

Offline LooseCannon

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Imagine no trade with the Nets, a healthy Rondo, Jeff Green at 100%, Avery Bradley and Jared Sullinger for a full season, Ainge still moving up to draft Olynyk, the MLE (maybe mini-MLE) being used on Elton Brand (who signed with Atlanta for 1 year at $4 million), Beno Udrih signing for the minimum (like he did with the Knicks), and some veteran 7-foot center being added to eat up minutes (the return of Jason Collins?).

I wouldn't have hated that roster for this season.
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Re: Pierce: I might still be a Celtic if Rondo didn't get injured
« Reply #38 on: August 13, 2013, 01:20:02 PM »

Offline rocknrollforyoursoul

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I think Pierce is right.  Or, at least, that was the plan.  Danny gave KG a no-trade clause and signed Terry, Lee, Bass, etc. to long-term contracts.  I imagine that he did that thinking that the team was going to try to win-now for the length of KG's contract.

Rondo's injury changed things, and was probably the event that changed ownership's thinking about the viability of winning now.
That's what I had offered in several forums going around at the time.  Danny was locking this crew in for a few years and gambling on everyone's health for that timeframe.  Rondo's injury crapped all over those plans.

For me, the biggest what-ifs are the ones that determine titles.
- KG's injury in 2009.  that to me is the biggest because I truly believe it hindered his play the next season as well.  I really think we could have 3-peated had he been continuously healthy.

- Powe's injury in 2009.  With Powe, we would have had a competent 3rd big man to throw at Orlando to get to the finals.  We needed another productive frontcourt player to go with Perk and Big Baby.  We may not have beaten LA with just Powe and no KG but we'd have gotten to the finals.

- Perk's injury in 2010 finals.  With Perk in game 7 there'd be many less offensive boards for LA and therefore less second-chance points keeping them in the game.

- Team laissez-faire attitude second half of 2010.  Team played like crap (only the playoffs matter BS) after Christmas and it cost them homecourt advantage against LA.  If game 7 is in Boston we win.

- Sheed's severe lack of conditioning in 2010.  if he comes to camp in shape instead of playing into shape, maybe he has the stamina to produce more in game 7 as opposed to fading away.

- Shaq's health in 2011.  If he's healthy enough to play the season and the playoffs, we have enough firepower to outplay the Heat who have no answer for him.  Love Perk, hated the trade (at the time and the following year) and really appreciated the effort he made to come back early from his injury but he wouldn't have been a difference maker in that series.  C's needed Shaq's offensive threat and defensive presense to win that series.  I really think his presense would have made Green's absense and Rondo's injury moot.

Lots of good points, particularly the one about Powe—that doesn't seem to get brought up a lot around here. Of course, Powe's absence is probably moot if KG is there. My list of biggest what-ifs of the KG era:

1) KG's knee: I agree, we would've three-peated if it wasn't for this, no doubt about it.

2) Shaq's foot: Cs were steamrolling the league when Shaq was healthy; if he stays healthy, Boston wins the title.

3) Perk's knee: if he's healthy—which we especially needed with KG less than 100%—Boston wins in 2010.

These are my Big 3 (pardon the pun). In sum, if KG and Shaq don't miss significant time with major injuries, Boston wins 4 in a row—heck, maybe 5, since winning the previous 4 might've given them the momentum/health to beat Miami in the 2012 ECF—in which case the Cs have 20, maybe 21, titles, while the Lakers have only 14 (well, only 9 actually), and LeBron has no more than 1.

I know that the Cs had pretty much everything break their way during the Russell era—and I know I'm being greedy here—but why, oh why, can't the breaks once again really start going Boston's way? Len Bias, Reggie Lewis, McHale's foot, Bird's back, KG's knee, Shaq's foot, Green's heart, Wilcox's heart, Bradley's shoulders, Rondo's knee, Sully's back ...  :-[

Here's to hoping that Rondo, Sully, Bradley, Green, KO, and all other current and near-future Cs avoid severe injuries!  :D
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Re: Pierce: I might still be a Celtic if Rondo didn't get injured
« Reply #39 on: August 14, 2013, 07:19:23 AM »

Offline vjcsmoke

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Major "What ifs" in the new big 3 era:

-What if KG had never had his bone spurs and had not missed the playoffs?

-What if Perkins never blew his acl in the Finals?

-What if Wade had never snapped Rondo's elbow and taken him out of the playoffs?

-What if Rondo never tore his acl?

Minor "What ifs":

-what if Ray was never hobbled by bone spurs?

-What if Shaq had held up for half a season more?

-What if we had re-signed Tony Allen?

-What if the deal to send Ray to Memphis had not fallen through?

We had a great run in 2008, but [dang], we had some rotten luck since then.

Seriously this team could have had 3 titles and been considered a dynasty if not for some seriously bad luck, like Perkins getting hurt during the finals, and then KG missing the playoffs.  Etc.  I'm grateful for that championship run, don't get me wrong but it could have been more.

And yes, Rondo's injury did have a domino effect.  It became clear to DA that he had to hasten the rebuild and thus he swung the Brooklyn deal.

Re: Pierce: I might still be a Celtic if Rondo didn't get injured
« Reply #40 on: August 14, 2013, 07:57:33 AM »

Offline BUTerrier

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If Rondo didn’t get injured we would have def had at least second round of the 2013 playoffs.
And the way Kelley Onylnk played in summer league, he is a candidate for Rookie of the Year.

Ainge would have def kept Pierce & KG under this scenario.

Starters
K.O
K.G
Peirce
Bradley
Rondo

Bench
Green
Sullinger
Terry

Pierce still being a Celtic isn’t too far-fectched….

First of all, if we'd made the second round of the playoffs we'd have had a pick somewhere in the early 20s, not the 16th pick. There's a big difference between trading up from 16 to 13 and from 21/22 to 13. And maybe Olynyk would have still been there, but I sincerely doubt it. That would likely mean the majority of Minnesota, Atlanta, Milwaukee, Dallas and Chicago (assuming no other teams traded in to get him) passed on him, which I sincerely doubt they would. Let's give them Gorgui Dieng; I know Ainge was higher on Tim Hardaway Jr., but I'm doing this with an eye toward the next year. The lineup would be:

Starters:
KG
Bass
Pierce
Bradley
Rondo

Bench (guaranteed, not counting any additional signed players:
Green
Dieng
Sullinger
Terry
Lee

With that roster, I'm not sure we're not capped out and unable to use the MLE or Mini-MLE. Assume a reasonable regression of Pierce and KG, given their ages and what we saw last year. And also, let's assume none of the young players grumble about their minutes. That team makes the playoffs. Now let's assume they get the highest possible draft pick available to a playoff team (which is #15, I believe), and that, with the worst of the Hawks/Nets picks we're probably talking about somewhere around the 10th pick. Maybe, MAYBE we can bundle those two to get a pick in the top 5 range, but that we choose to keep them. Pierce's contract is down, KG has one year left, but I think they retire. So our roster looks like:

Starters:
Bass
Sullinger
Green
Bradley
Rondo

Bench:
Dieng
#10 pick
#15 pick
Terry
Whatever else we get

That seems worth it? Really? I mean, I'm not saying it doesn't hurt to lose Pierce and KG, but it's like ripping off a band-aid: it hurts in the short-term, but the hurt goes away after time. If KG and Pierce turn back the clock like Duncan did last year, then I'll agree that it wasn't the best trade. But even then, keep in mind that they'll be able to play fewer minutes in Brooklyn due to the presence of players like Kirilenko.