Jeff Green Concerns

[sofutomygaha]

Lessee, we spent last week bashing Rondo.   A day on Fab.  Green should serve as punching bag for a couple of days before we move on to a repeat of Avery Bradley is a Terrible Offensive Player(tm).  At some point we'll circle back to Ray Allen is a Traitor (tm) and then debate again why 55 different point guards in the China Basketball Association are all better than Rondo because they can make free throws.

 

=c you haven't left me any time to wail about Olynyk's t-rex arms

[LilRip]

like Boris, i too am a bit perplexed why he hasn't shown the playmaking skills he was supposed to have coming in from college. i mean, wasn't that the scouting report on him? i remember reading something along the lines of he wouldn't be the type to fill up buckets, but he was a great passer and playmaker. hopefully we'll see more of that going into next season.

[Chris]

like Boris, i too am a bit perplexed why he hasn't shown the playmaking skills he was supposed to have coming in from college. i mean, wasn't that the scouting report on him? i remember reading something along the lines of he wouldn't be the type to fill up buckets, but he was a great passer and playmaker. hopefully we'll see more of that going into next season.

I still think he is a better passer than he is given credit for.  But he is not a playmaker.  He doesn't have the handle for it.  Ultimately, that is what holds back his offense in general.  He is a very mediocre ballhandler, which doesn't allow him to do much off the dribble, other than straight ahead drives, lowering his head and using his length and quickness to blow guy players, or stepbacks. 

I do think he can be a solid passer out of the post, and he is good swinging the ball.  But that is not the type of guy you run the offense through.

[LilRip]

like Boris, i too am a bit perplexed why he hasn't shown the playmaking skills he was supposed to have coming in from college. i mean, wasn't that the scouting report on him? i remember reading something along the lines of he wouldn't be the type to fill up buckets, but he was a great passer and playmaker. hopefully we'll see more of that going into next season.

I still think he is a better passer than he is given credit for.  But he is not a playmaker.  He doesn't have the handle for it.  Ultimately, that is what holds back his offense in general.  He is a very mediocre ballhandler, which doesn't allow him to do much off the dribble, other than straight ahead drives, lowering his head and using his length and quickness to blow guy players, or stepbacks. 

I do think he can be a solid passer out of the post, and he is good swinging the ball.  But that is not the type of guy you run the offense through.

a guy who can score and make intelligent passes from the post sure sounds like he can be a playmaker to me. agreed that he doesn't have great handles though.

[Boris Badenov]

like Boris, i too am a bit perplexed why he hasn't shown the playmaking skills he was supposed to have coming in from college. i mean, wasn't that the scouting report on him? i remember reading something along the lines of he wouldn't be the type to fill up buckets, but he was a great passer and playmaker. hopefully we'll see more of that going into next season.

I still think he is a better passer than he is given credit for.  But he is not a playmaker.  He doesn't have the handle for it.  Ultimately, that is what holds back his offense in general.  He is a very mediocre ballhandler, which doesn't allow him to do much off the dribble, other than straight ahead drives, lowering his head and using his length and quickness to blow guy players, or stepbacks. 

I do think he can be a solid passer out of the post, and he is good swinging the ball.  But that is not the type of guy you run the offense through.

I guess I see the first point but not the second. Even with his limited ball-handling ability G-Town seemed able to use him effectively as a passer. Here are some quotes about his college/draft scouting profile:

Green brings great passing ability to the floor, which he showed off a number of times against Ohio State. In the Princeton offense, he often receives the ball at the top of the key, and his ability to read the defense has lead to a 3.2 assist per game average this season.

Green, who is a great passer for a bigger player, moved the ball very well for the Hoyas, picking up 3 assists, but his contribution to the offense will not be seen in the box score. The Commodores did a fantastic job taking center Roy Hibbert out of the Georgetown attack in the first half, but Green was able to set his teammate up with some nice looks after the half. Green also showed great court vision out of the post, hitting Patrick Ewing Jr. a couple of times in the corner for open jump shots.

As a player who can find a way to burn a defense in almost any situation, Green is a near constant threat to find one of his teammates on a back-cut, displaying excellent court vision and a true understanding of what his teammates are doing at all times on the offensive end. If he isn't whipping a pass into the lane through multiple defenders, he is waiting for cutters to clear the lane, leaving the paint vulnerable to a slashing move.

Above average passer with great court vision to recognize open teammates...

A lot of these quotes are pretty consistent with your view Chris, in terms of the type of pass he was able to make well.

I guess the question is, even if he's a better passer while stationary at the top of the key or in the post, can that positive attribute return? Or is it just a case of the skill set not translating to the NBA? Is it because the trend now is to make plays out of pick-and-rolls, or something?

[wdleehi]

He is not the guy you build around.




He is guy you put around the building base of your team, but he is not part of the base. 






The Celtics only have one of those types of players, Rondo. 

[Vermont Green]

Keeping in mind that Green is a $9M per year player, not a max salary guy (franchise player), I think he is doing fine but this is a big year for him.  The open heart surgery is over a year behind him and it is a whole new team were he is now part of the base, not the new guy coming in mid season. Even if he plays like he did towards the end of last year, I think that will be good (for $9M) but I think he is going to improve and show more confidence and leadership.  We will see just how far that goes.

I  think a key to utilizing Green's skills is to keep him moving.  When Rondo was playing in the beginning of the year, he just stood in the corner a lot.  He seemed to play better after Rondo got hurt and the team employed more of a ball movement scheme.  He benefited from this.  Now I don't know who was pushing him to just stand in the corner when Rondo had the ball but I suspect Doc, Rondo, and himself are all partially to blame.  Hopefully the new coach will make sure that doesn't happen this year.

[mmmmm]

Keeping in mind that Green is a $9M per year player, not a max salary guy (franchise player), I think he is doing fine but this is a big year for him.  The open heart surgery is over a year behind him and it is a whole new team were he is now part of the base, not the new guy coming in mid season. Even if he plays like he did towards the end of last year, I think that will be good (for $9M) but I think he is going to improve and show more confidence and leadership.  We will see just how far that goes.

I  think a key to utilizing Green's skills is to keep him moving.  When Rondo was playing in the beginning of the year, he just stood in the corner a lot.  He seemed to play better after Rondo got hurt and the team employed more of a ball movement scheme.  He benefited from this.  Now I don't know who was pushing him to just stand in the corner when Rondo had the ball but I suspect Doc, Rondo, and himself are all partially to blame.  Hopefully the new coach will make sure that doesn't happen this year.

I just disagree strongly with this interpretation.

Green played 'better' because he simply was playing better.  Or, to put it more clearly, he played poorly in the first couple of months of the season because he was just coming back from open heart surgery and missing an entire season!

Why do people keep ignoring that?

Rondo almost certainly had nothing to do with why Green played poorly in November and great in April.

Almost every one of Green's performance metrics improved steadily every month he played before Rondo got hurt.   He shot the ball better and better.  He played more minutes.  He scored more per minute.  He rebounded better.  He just plain played better and better.

Those trends started long before Rondo was lost for the season and they continued after Rondo left.

These changes were obviously about Jeff Green.  The individual human being and athlete.

Not Rondo.

[Yoki_IsTheName]

My concern with Jeff Green is his mentality.

He now has to a bigger role in the team, and probably he's the number 1 option on scoring. And while he can score, can he keep up for 36-38 minutes and keep it going the next game? Can he step up to the plate and still be a consistent 20ppg player knowing that most of the offensive load will be on him? I saw his abilities, but I'm not sure if he has the mindset that can take over games.

[LooseCannon]

Lessee, we spent last week bashing Rondo.   A day on Fab.  Green should serve as punching bag for a couple of days before we move on to a repeat of Avery Bradley is a Terrible Offensive Player(tm).  At some point we'll circle back to Ray Allen is a Traitor (tm) and then debate again why 55 different point guards in the China Basketball Association are all better than Rondo because they can make free throws.

Do you want me to throw together a "Sullinger is overrated on this forum" thread to create some variety?

[Chris]

Lessee, we spent last week bashing Rondo.   A day on Fab.  Green should serve as punching bag for a couple of days before we move on to a repeat of Avery Bradley is a Terrible Offensive Player(tm).  At some point we'll circle back to Ray Allen is a Traitor (tm) and then debate again why 55 different point guards in the China Basketball Association are all better than Rondo because they can make free throws.

Do you want me to throw together a "Sullinger is overrated on this forum" thread to create some variety?

Can't we give the rookie some love?  We need a thread to complain about his T-rex arms, and make Adam Morrison comparisons.

[BudweiserCeltic]

I disagree with the sentiment that Green is not a good passer. Whenever we put him in the role of point-forward last year, though it was limited usage at that, he showed some good vision and passing ability particularly for his position.

[sofutomygaha]

Lessee, we spent last week bashing Rondo.   A day on Fab.  Green should serve as punching bag for a couple of days before we move on to a repeat of Avery Bradley is a Terrible Offensive Player(tm).  At some point we'll circle back to Ray Allen is a Traitor (tm) and then debate again why 55 different point guards in the China Basketball Association are all better than Rondo because they can make free throws.

Do you want me to throw together a "Sullinger is overrated on this forum" thread to create some variety?

Can't we give the rookie some love?  We need a thread to complain about his T-rex arms, and make Adam Morrison comparisons.

OH MY GOD! I just realized both those guys went to Gonzaga!

[LooseCannon]

Lessee, we spent last week bashing Rondo.   A day on Fab.  Green should serve as punching bag for a couple of days before we move on to a repeat of Avery Bradley is a Terrible Offensive Player(tm).  At some point we'll circle back to Ray Allen is a Traitor (tm) and then debate again why 55 different point guards in the China Basketball Association are all better than Rondo because they can make free throws.

Do you want me to throw together a "Sullinger is overrated on this forum" thread to create some variety?

Can't we give the rookie some love?  We need a thread to complain about his T-rex arms, and make Adam Morrison comparisons.

I'm waiting a bit until I start my "Will Olynyk be a better defender and rebounder than Andrea Bargnani" thread.

[pearljammer10]

My only concern with Jeff Green is that he'll score 25+ points a game this year.