Why is everyone so down on Fab Melo?

[SHAQATTACK]

He seems to be getting worse , I didn't see any improvement in summer league, people that saw improvement were just "WISHING" and looking for for something to cling to.

Energy was not so good.  He was behind the game the whole time, not thinking and playing a thinking mans game at all.

He is a nice tall man. 

Not angry ( aggressive on court) , not motivated, low skill set, and doesn't seem to be very bright period.

Total bust.

[SHAQATTACK]

Feel for the game.  He has none.  And while guys like say, Sammy Dalembert can get by without it to some degree, because of superior athleticism and coordination, I haven't seen that from Melo.  He looks plodding, and uncoordinated.

excellent review of FAB !!!!

[Eja117]

The best thing I can say about Fab is that I was completely wrong about Avery and learned a lesson from that. Avery was younger though

[Birdman]

because he is awful..his only chance of a career is overseas

[moiso]

Feel for the game.  He has none.  And while guys like say, Sammy Dalembert can get by without it to some degree, because of superior athleticism and coordination, I haven't seen that from Melo.  He looks plodding, and uncoordinated.

excellent review of FAB !!!!

Especially when he runs the court and he is bent over so far that his knees are just about hitting himself in the face.

[sofutomygaha]

Hmm ... does getting named First-team All-Defensive for the D-League count as 'destroying it'?   He definitely posted a few dominating games there.  Seems like Fab has done that part.  Check.   

He hasn't had a chance to play anywhere close to 27 minutes in an NBA game (where both teams have pulled starters) for us to see what he could do in that situation.

Not saying he'll impress like Bradley did, of course.   Just noting that's the missing piece in your comparison.

You're not supposed to hang around in the D-league long enough to win awards, though, right? Don't you think, though, that that defensive player of the year thing is a Bull Durham effect? I don't think you have dominated the d-league if no one has tried to promote you.

Bradley basically spent the last two weeks of his ankle rehab in Maine before he joined the big club. He averaged 17 points, 5 assists, 5 rebounds (what?!?!), and 3 steals. Those aren't d-league MVP numbers; they are get-me-out-of-the-d-league numbers.

Melo blocked a lot of shots in the d-league, but he never made any kind of case that he was ready to graduate. He spent a full season there, which is a black mark in and of itself, where he complimented his borderline goaltending with a pedestrian 10 points and 6 rebounds. He got six minutes on the floor with the Celtics and we all watched fellow d-leaguer Kyle O'Quinn smash him to bits.

[Yogi]

You're not supposed to hang around in the D-league long enough to win awards, though, right? Don't you think, though, that that defensive player of the year thing is a Bull Durham effect? I don't think you have dominated the d-league if no one has tried to promote you.

Bradley basically spent the last two weeks of his ankle rehab in Maine before he joined the big club. He averaged 17 points, 5 assists, 5 rebounds (what?!?!), and 3 steals. Those aren't d-league MVP numbers; they are get-me-out-of-the-d-league numbers.

Melo blocked a lot of shots in the d-league, but he never made any kind of case that he was ready to graduate. He spent a full season there, which is a black mark in and of itself, where he complimented his borderline goaltending with a pedestrian 10 points and 6 rebounds. He got six minutes on the floor with the Celtics and we all watched fellow d-leaguer Kyle O'Quinn smash him to bits.

The time of looking at the d league like it is a demotion is over.  The D-league is now a minor league for developing players.  Fab Melo, has the least amount of basketball experience in the NBA.  He is perfect for the D league.

He has elite size, bulk, length, shot blocking ability and the ability to draw charges.  He has good mobility, shooting touch, passing ability, foot work and motor. 

He is poor at rebounding.  He lacks a good feel for the game due to lack of experience.  He lacks confidence due to a lack of knowledge.  The more he plays the game under proper coaching and supervision, the more confident he will get.  His feel for the game will improve from the practicing and  as well. 

[ScoobyDoo]

From Yogi:

He got blocked a couple of times... so what?  Who cares?  It happens to Dwight Howard and Lebron James too.

Do people realize that we are talking about someone who played 2 years in high school, 2 years in college and 1 year in the D league?  Just try to imagine how little basketball that is.  Of course he's not going to be confident.  That takes a lot of time.  By the way, he eventually become a defensive force in all levels that he had gotten minutes in.

Everyone has their skills.  Shavlik is a great re-bounder, Fab Melo is not.  That doesn't mean that Fab doesn't have "it."  Melo is still developing his skill set.  He is very good at steals, blocks and taking charges.  He's pretty effective in defending the pick and roll.  Fab has excellent passing ability.  He is working on a mid range game and a hook shot.  He may never become great, but he will get better at setting picks and boxing out.

Fab hustled a lot when he was on the floor.  One play stands out (against Indiana) he fought for an offensive rebound, dived in the floor to save it from going out of bounds to Olynyk, who missed a jumper but Mitchell (or Fells) gathered the miss for a nice floater.  Melo's hustle gave us those two points.

Just because your teams want you to doesn't mean you can become great at something that falls outside of your skill set.  Natural talent plays a role in what you are good at.  I'm sure Fab works very hard at rebounding, but that doesn't mean that he can become a great re-bounder.

The Celtics did not draft Fab for his rebounding prowess.  They drafted him for his impact on the defensive end.  That means, challenging shots, getting deflections, blocks, steals and charges.  He will also work on other aspects of the game like rebounding, shooting etc.

There is a lot of room for growth with Fab.  That is why his ceiling is so high.  As fans, we have to be patient. 

TP - very well stated and a much more interesting read than "Fab Melo sucks and he's a moron and he sucks and he looks funny when he runs and he sucks".

We all gave Perkins so much rope when he arrived. Yet he absolutely sucked for three years. On offense he'd take 23 seconds of the shot clock to gather for a shot and then would usually travel anyway or just it over the back board. On D he'd foul everyone who came within 2 feet of him and couldn't stay in a game more than 5-10 minutes.

And again Perkins career averages are 6.2 points, 6 boards and 1.3 blocks per game in 23.2 minutes per game.

I think if Fab averaged 23 minutes a game this year he'd put up 12 points, 5-6 boards, 2-3 blocks and some very good lane defense.

I see way more potential in Fab than I ever saw in Perkins.

His lateral quickness on the pick and roll is very impressive for a guy his size and that in itself is a very valuable asset in an NBA game dominated by pick and roll activity.

Time...

I think if he learns how to hold his ground better in the lane, plays D with his hands high and active and gets a better understanding of forearm leverage in the post he could become a real defensive force for us. But it will take time.

And his ability to finish and his offensive game in general is already leaps and bounds ahead of where Perkins offensive game is today.

He got blocked a few times, but he also had some strong finishes at the rim, a couple and ones and his jump hook looks like Kareem's sky hook in comparison to Perkins.

We gave Perkins three years of rope because he was tough and mean, and we love that in Boston, even if he was just horrible the entire time.

Fab's a different player - but that doesn't mean he might not make it and develop over the course of the smae three years time it took Perkins to.

I'm a big believer in the three year rule. It's really hard to make a determination on a rookie in his first 1-2 years.

1. We made the mistake with Joe Johnson
2. We made the mistake with Chauncey Billups
3. We hung in there with Perkins
4. We hung in there with Big Al
5. We hung in there with Avery Bradley

I think guys play themselves into three years worth of patience or out of three years of patience and right now while Fab hasn't blown anyone's socks off, he has done just enough to stick with him a bit longer. Let's see what Stevens can get done with him this year and I think by the end of this year, we'll have a pretty good idea of whether he's then worth giving him that 3rd year of patience and further development.

My two cents. 

   

[Tr1boy]

Why also people are down on melo is that 1st yr rookies like olynyk, iverson and pressey outplayed him during the summer league games. At first he started and eventually came off the bench he played poorly. The dagger was when kratsov dunked in his face on one end and swatted his power dunk at the other. Rebounding still stinks, goes up soft and just seems lost out there.

Just little to no progress from last years lesson is why nobody has confidence. With multiple picks last year, danny gambled and might come out losing. At worse doesnt seem like there is many picked after him that is better so far. At best we can think we used the two picks to trade down for sully. No way sully should of been picked that late

[McNoob]

I really hated the Fab Melo pick last year. I knew he wasn't anyone special and would probably pan out as another Ryan Hollins. He was mostly a product of the Syracuse defensive scheme, which allowed him to stand beneath the hoop the entire possession, and was simply tall enough to block incoming shots.

So with that said, I don't have high expectations for him. I knew he was going to be a project, and projects aren't ready after one year. He's currently in the best situation possible for a player of his caliber though. He's on a rebuilding team with absolutely no proven player at the Center position. If there's any year to gauge Fab Melo, it will be this year, which is why I don't understand the people wanting him cut or traded immediately. Summer League is not necessarily a good indicator of a player's performance, since it's far from an NBA style game.

Give him minutes this season and see what he can do. If he sucks, then the team will finish with a worse record (which is what we all want, right?). If he proves himself to be a Greg Stiemsma-type player, then we've got a solid rotational guy for the future.

[Boris Badenov]

I think if he were playing 23 minutes a game, he'd be putting up numbers somewhere in the neighborhood of 12 points 5-6 boards and 2-3 blocks - this year.

Here is a complete list of players who averaged 12 points, 5 boards and 2 blocks or better last year, in less than 30 minutes per game:

[McHales Pits]

I think if he were playing 23 minutes a game, he'd be putting up numbers somewhere in the neighborhood of 12 points 5-6 boards and 2-3 blocks - this year.

Here is a complete list of players who averaged 12 points, 5 boards and 2 blocks or better last year, in less than 30 minutes per game:

HAHA! Well-compilated, sir.

I just think Fab lacks the basketball intelligence, coordination, and footwork that it takes to be a productive big-man in the NBA. Fortunately for him - he is 7 ft tall - and some other GM will give him a shot if we don't.

His D-League triple-double gives me a slight glimmer of hope, but its not much.

If he played 20 mins per game, I would expect 4PPG/4RPG/1BPG/4FLs ... in essence - below-average production.

[ScoobyDoo]

TP for Boris, one of the best posts I've seen in a "long" time.

I almost fell off my chair laughing. Ok, so I'm a "little" exuberant, expecting from a guy who admittedly still looks more like a stiff than a guy about to accomplish what no other player in the league has currently been able to in under 30 minutes a game. So I've given the kid a high ceiling...

But to McNoob's point in his post:

That's exactly what I'm talking about. This year is a time to evaluate. I don't think Stevens has a lot of pressure being put on him to win the Eastern division this year. Conversely, I don't think Ainge would mind getting a high lottery pick if that happened.

I do think Stevens marching orders may be something along the lines of the following and I also think he may have significant pressure to accomplish it:

1. Play the young guys long, hard minutes - let them take their lumps and grow, or not grow, with their feet to the fire.

2. This is an evaluation year - of not only Fab, but of Faverini, Iverson, Sully, Olynyk, Brooks, Crawford, Pressey and yes, even of Jeff Green and Rajon Rondo.

3. If I'm the GM, and the coach for that matter, by the end of this season I'd wnat to know what 3-4 young core players I want to keep and which young players I'm looking to package with draft picks possibly, for a single stud player.

In other words, we might find that Sully is the beast we thought he was but Green isn't. or Sully isn't, but Olynyk is at Power Forward. But we won't know unless we seem them all play - a lot.

We can't be in rebuilding mode forever, so we need to speed up the evaluation process this season of all these young guys.

Therefore, if it was me, I might actually start Fab and let him get his backside handed to him every night for 30 minutes. He will either make significant progress or he will die on the vine and I'm good with either scenario because that will let me identify him as one young player who is not part of our future.

Right now, based on what I've seen my core is:

Rondo, Bradley, Green, Sully & Olynyk.
* In this group Green needs to prove he can bring it in a big way on a nightly basis and Rondo needs to prove his true leadership abilities or both could be gone.

Fab, Pressey,Brooks, Iverson in Turkey and Crawford are bubble players who need to be weeded through and prove this why we should or shouldn't keep them.

Feet to the fire - let's get on with it.         

[manl_lui]

From Yogi:

He got blocked a couple of times... so what?  Who cares?  It happens to Dwight Howard and Lebron James too.

Do people realize that we are talking about someone who played 2 years in high school, 2 years in college and 1 year in the D league?  Just try to imagine how little basketball that is.  Of course he's not going to be confident.  That takes a lot of time.  By the way, he eventually become a defensive force in all levels that he had gotten minutes in.

Everyone has their skills.  Shavlik is a great re-bounder, Fab Melo is not.  That doesn't mean that Fab doesn't have "it."  Melo is still developing his skill set.  He is very good at steals, blocks and taking charges.  He's pretty effective in defending the pick and roll.  Fab has excellent passing ability.  He is working on a mid range game and a hook shot.  He may never become great, but he will get better at setting picks and boxing out.

Fab hustled a lot when he was on the floor.  One play stands out (against Indiana) he fought for an offensive rebound, dived in the floor to save it from going out of bounds to Olynyk, who missed a jumper but Mitchell (or Fells) gathered the miss for a nice floater.  Melo's hustle gave us those two points.

Just because your teams want you to doesn't mean you can become great at something that falls outside of your skill set.  Natural talent plays a role in what you are good at.  I'm sure Fab works very hard at rebounding, but that doesn't mean that he can become a great re-bounder.

The Celtics did not draft Fab for his rebounding prowess.  They drafted him for his impact on the defensive end.  That means, challenging shots, getting deflections, blocks, steals and charges.  He will also work on other aspects of the game like rebounding, shooting etc.

There is a lot of room for growth with Fab.  That is why his ceiling is so high.  As fans, we have to be patient. 

TP - very well stated and a much more interesting read than "Fab Melo sucks and he's a moron and he sucks and he looks funny when he runs and he sucks".

We all gave Perkins so much rope when he arrived. Yet he absolutely sucked for three years. On offense he'd take 23 seconds of the shot clock to gather for a shot and then would usually travel anyway or just it over the back board. On D he'd foul everyone who came within 2 feet of him and couldn't stay in a game more than 5-10 minutes.

And again Perkins career averages are 6.2 points, 6 boards and 1.3 blocks per game in 23.2 minutes per game.

I think if Fab averaged 23 minutes a game this year he'd put up 12 points, 5-6 boards, 2-3 blocks and some very good lane defense.

I see way more potential in Fab than I ever saw in Perkins.

His lateral quickness on the pick and roll is very impressive for a guy his size and that in itself is a very valuable asset in an NBA game dominated by pick and roll activity.

Time...

I think if he learns how to hold his ground better in the lane, plays D with his hands high and active and gets a better understanding of forearm leverage in the post he could become a real defensive force for us. But it will take time.

And his ability to finish and his offensive game in general is already leaps and bounds ahead of where Perkins offensive game is today.

He got blocked a few times, but he also had some strong finishes at the rim, a couple and ones and his jump hook looks like Kareem's sky hook in comparison to Perkins.

We gave Perkins three years of rope because he was tough and mean, and we love that in Boston, even if he was just horrible the entire time.

Fab's a different player - but that doesn't mean he might not make it and develop over the course of the smae three years time it took Perkins to.

I'm a big believer in the three year rule. It's really hard to make a determination on a rookie in his first 1-2 years.

1. We made the mistake with Joe Johnson
2. We made the mistake with Chauncey Billups
3. We hung in there with Perkins
4. We hung in there with Big Al
5. We hung in there with Avery Bradley

I think guys play themselves into three years worth of patience or out of three years of patience and right now while Fab hasn't blown anyone's socks off, he has done just enough to stick with him a bit longer. Let's see what Stevens can get done with him this year and I think by the end of this year, we'll have a pretty good idea of whether he's then worth giving him that 3rd year of patience and further development.

My two cents. 

   

Great analysis...tbh, if we were still a contender, I would love to get rid of him...but since we are rebuilding, this is ok.

Tanking or not, you now can give consistent minutes (maybe?) to rookies and people will just have to step up. Fab is a project from the moment we drafted him...you cannot expect him to become a superstar overnight and it takes time. He never played consistent minutes last year. We do see some improvements in his hustle and on defense. It's a glimpse of what he can do if he is consistent. 7 footers do not grow on trees especially if we are looking at a 7 footer who has great foot work, and a pretty good vertical to block shots. He just needs to polish his skills. As most of the above said, dude played 2 years in HS, 2 years in college...that is not a lot of basketball.

I say with a new coaching staff, I want to see how his progress will go

[nickagneta]

I get the guy is new to the game. I get that he needs time to develop.

But I also get that even with time and patience, there is no guarantee he becomes anything more than what he currently is which is one of the worst players currently guaranteed to be on an NBA roster this year.

His starting basketball late in life is as much a detriment as it is a hope. Not having the basics grilled into him at a young age so that his feel for the game is instinctive is a bad thing. The hope is that he is intelligent enough and talented enough to overcome that and have everything come natural now, much later in his basketball life.

That's not always a given. Growth at this stage is not a guarantee.

Throw the stats he has out the window because they do not matter. What matters is how he accepts coaching and how he translates what he learns into in-game performance. Honestly, if the Summer League is any indication, so far, his learning curve looks almost flat. He does not appear demonstrably better than when he was seen in last year's pre-season.

His body appears in better shape but his feel and flow of his game just are seriously sub-standard. All the height, length, and lateral quickness in the world will not make up for a lack of talent or knowledge of the game.

And, for what it is worth, my son goes to Syracuse and word around campus was, Melo wasn't the brightest kid around, regardless of his nationality or language spoken(and believe me there are a ton of exceptionally intelligent kids at Syracuse from all over the world that speak broken English at best. If he was just having a language barrier and was very smart, people would have known it).