Can we just outright waive Fab Melo and/or Brooks?

[bfrombleacher]

Why would you not just trade for a future 2nd?

And what's so hard to understand about the word: project?

I saw that Fab Melo regressed during Summer League - he was overweight, slow, plodding (in a bad way), no situational awareness, no aggression;

Come on, he had the whole of April and May to improve and he did not.

I may have been a bit snappy in my other post, sorry about that.

But, really? He's always been a 2-3 year project.

And you're giving him the whole of 2 months to improve.

Perry Jones, Ezeli and Moultrie were the ones I wanted. I definitely would have liked to see Ezeli on the roster last year. Moultrie and Jones look like projects still, just different from Melo.

Where do you see Fab Melo in 2015? Does he have the drive to improve himself?

IMHO we need to cut our losses as early as now as the warning signs are evident in his case;

Or I might regret letting him go later on and he becomes a beast in the NBA (which I'm around 80% sure that he will NOT  be)

Everybody but Doc has been praising Fab Melo's work ethic. I'm thinking he's just lost on the court.

AB was as lost as Melo when he started off. Props to Yogi for reminding me how lost AB was.

The learning curve is deep for the league. AB has been playing basketball at an elite level all his life, to the point where he was considered one of the nation's best in high school.

Melo has far less experience and plays a position that takes longer to learn.

And AB definitely looked as lost as Melo was at the start. Here's a refresher on how bad he looked:
http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=51998.0

The downside is we lose a roster spot. Melo's cap contribution is nothing.

[timobusa]

Just keep not so Fab Melo in the D-League where he belongs.
I like that other Brazilian guy we just signed.
Vitor something.

Let Fab go after this season.

[gar]

The Celtics can waive Wallace and have his contract count against the cap, but only a moron would do that.  Arguably it would be horrible cap management to waive any player on a guaranteed contract unless it would make sense to get rid of that player and not even consider filling that roster spot with another player.

To clarify, this is true because you can't trade a player that's not on your roster, even if you're still paying their salary.

Just another point, not saying I'd do it in this case, but, you can also "stretch" a contract when you waive a player. The stretch is 2 x YearsLeft + 1, so Wallace with 3 years left and owed $30 million could be "stretched" out to 7 years, or about $4.29 million a year over the next 7 years. That would certainly get the C's under the Lux Tax right now, but would saddle them with a roughly 4.3 million cap hit for the next seven years...and free one roster spot.

Thanks, TP explains why you see players on the payroll long after their name is off the roster.

Question is why would they bring in another Brazilian player if they were planning on waiving Melo. Faverani is older and may be able to mentor Melo and certainly Melo could help him get acclimated. Not sure I would have done it given our roster problems; but that seems to be the direction they are taking.

[JumpingJudkins]

Question is why would they bring in another Brazilian player if they were planning on waiving Melo. Faverani is older and may be able to mentor Melo and certainly Melo could help him get acclimated. Not sure I would have done it given our roster problems; but that seems to be the direction they are taking.

Vitor is two years older than Fab. Hardly an elder statesman anxious to take the youngster under his wing. Maybe the Celts just saw a potential upgrade available on the foreign market -- nationality not a factor.

Honestly, I don't see Fab's upside. A potential shot blocker who can't rebound or score. Is that worth patience and a roster spot? I'm comfortable that he's not going to come back to bite us. If Fab was on another team, would any of us suggest trading ANYTHING for him and his potential?

[cltc5]

Question is why would they bring in another Brazilian player if they were planning on waiving Melo. Faverani is older and may be able to mentor Melo and certainly Melo could help him get acclimated. Not sure I would have done it given our roster problems; but that seems to be the direction they are taking.

Vitor is two years older than Fab. Hardly an elder statesman anxious to take the youngster under his wing. Maybe the Celts just saw a potential upgrade available on the foreign market -- nationality not a factor.

Honestly, I don't see Fab's upside. A potential shot blocker who can't rebound or score. Is that worth patience and a roster spot? I'm comfortable that he's not going to come back to bite us. If Fab was on another team, would any of us suggest trading ANYTHING for him and his potential?

nope

[Robert24]

Brooks was misused by Brooklyn last year. We should keep him.

[Moranis]

Melo and Brooks combined are only a little more than the cost of Crawford and both have team options next year while Crawford is a RFA.  I would think that makes Crawford the more expendable of the three.  I would also let Randolph and Wilcox go, they just don't make sense for this roster.  I think I would try to move Brooks and Melo with Humphries for some other asset(s) that are less salary as well, but that is a different issue.

[csfansince60s]

Why would you not just trade for a future 2nd?

And what's so hard to understand about the word: project?

I saw that Fab Melo regressed during Summer League - he was overweight, slow, plodding (in a bad way), no situational awareness, no aggression;

Come on, he had the whole of April and May to improve and he did not.

let me take an unpopular position here. one does not have to embrace melo or engage in a melo-love-fest to concede that he has improved since was drafted. i am not stating that he is or will be great, or even nba quality.

but to say he has regressed is a blanket statement that ignores the evidence of the summer league. did you not see his right handed hook shoot? he starting developing that last season in the D league. that shot did not exist before. if he can consistently make that shot it is a real weapon. i dont see how opponents can block it.

he has poor court awareness, but at least now he has SOME court awareness.

boxing out - not consistent, but better than before, which is also a commentary on his earlier lack of boxing out. similar with rebounding.

he looks less mechanical now and is learning the game. there is a long, long way to go, but he is better.

again, i have come to neither bury nor praise melo. instead i am pointing out that he has improved in some facets of the game. whether it will ever be enough is another question.

this year is all about developing young talent. i hope the celtics put melo's butt on the court each and every night. that will answer for all time whether or not melo can improve enough to be an nba center.

+1..to me, the highlighted says it all.

Putting Melo on the court every night for significant minutes does a lot for us.

1. It increases our chances for ping-pong balls.
2.It gives him real NBA experience.
3. It either (a) increases or(b) decreases his value.
If (a), we either keep him and further develop him, or he becomes a more valuable asset to include with a deal. If (b),then we dump him. At least we'll know and can move on.

We are in a great situation this year to evaluate and develop our young talent. Let Melo play and either sink or swim.

Same for Brooks.

[Chris]

I think Brooks is worth taking a look at, if only to see if you can build some value with him.  He has talent, but isn't much of a team player.  He could look really good on a tanking team though, as an isolation scorer.

Not to mention, this team is going to need scoring in general.  And he can do that.

[kozlodoev]

this year is all about developing young talent. i hope the celtics put melo's butt on the court each and every night. that will answer for all time whether or not melo can improve enough to be an nba center.

+1..to me, the highlighted says it all.

Putting Melo on the court every night for significant minutes does a lot for us.

Actually, no. This year is about answering questions -- and what Fab Melo is going to look like on the NBA floor is not one of them. But the following are:

1. What is Rondo going to look like after the injury?
2. Can Sullinger's back stay healthy?
3. Will Jeff Green be able to sustain his performance from the last 2 months of the '12-'13 regular season?
4. Will Olynyk be able to hold his ground against legitimate NBA talent, and what will his position be?
5. Which was a fluke for Avery Bradley: '11-'12 or '12-'13?
6. Same as 5, but for MarShon Brooks.

So, really, Fab Melo? He may never leave NBDL this season, and I wouldn't care.

[Pucaccia]

Lumping Melo and Brooks together is a leap. Brooks is a legitimate NBA scorer and an upgrade over Crawford.

Melo is not a project or a concept. He is a conundrum wrapped inside of an enigma.

I can't believe I am writing another post defending Crawford, but here it is...in his first three years with Washington, he averaged: 16.3, 14.7, and 13.2 ppg. In MarShon's first two years in NJ, he averaged: 12.6 and 5.4 ppg...they were both on crappy teams and MarShon's efficiency was slightly better.

This notion that Crawford just plain sucks is false. I see a bit of the grass is always greener with Brooks from Celtics fans. I agree that we probably don't need to develop both of them, but Brooks has not proven to be a more capable player / scorer than Crawford, yet.

good points

[Pucaccia]

The thing about Fab is, I thought we was suppose to be a physical freak kind of like Deandre Jordan. But when I watch him get his shots blocked, and get out muscled on rebounds, I wonder what they see in him. I prefer to be wrong, but I see the second coming of Acie Earl.

[connor]

I want to keep them both and I hope they both see some significant minutes throughout the season.

This is the perfect opportunity for guys like Melo and Brooks to develop because they can make mistakes that aren't tolerated on contending teams and learn from them.

Brooks could be an absolute STEAL in this trade if given the opportunity. He had some great moments during his rookie season on a bad Nets team, but got stuck behind Joe Johnson last year. He isn't nearly efficient enough and he turns the ball over too much, which is why he couldn't carve out significant minutes on a contending team, but on a rebuilding squad he is going to have the opportunity to play loose and make mistakes, which I think is going to help his game.

Brooks has the talent to be a potential 6th man off the bench offensive spark plug along with the likes of JR Smith, Nate Robinson, Jamal Crawford and Jason Terry. A volume scorer who can attack the rim. He can't hit the three ball, but he has a solid mid-range game and can continue to develop. He could end up being a great trade chip later on or a solid piece once we have rebuilt.

Fab Melo is harder to defend, but I still think he needs to get some NBA minutes. He looks absolutely lost out there sometimes and I've lost almost all hope (never liked the pick, but I really thought he would have developed more by now). I don't think the Celtics have the patience to bring him along slowly in the D-League and he has to have minimal trade value at best. I think the best course of action is to throw him out there with the big boys and see what happens.

I think if we are getting rid of anyway it HAS to be Jordan Crawford. Washington dumped him for nothing because of his bad attitude on a young rebuilding team and less than a year later he is on another one.

Brooks has more upside, plays the same style, has an extra year on his deal and doesn't come with the baggage.

[rocknrollforyoursoul]

And what's so hard to understand about the word: project?

Nothing. But Fab Melo is less than a project. He's a concept.

That's funny. 

Here's the problem with projects in the NBA: The NBA allows the smallest number of roster spots of any of the four major professional sports, so giving up one of those spots for such a long longshot can be viewed as wasteful, and in fact sometimes is wasteful.

The basic theory of NBA roster structuring is to be three-deep at each of the five positions; of course, teams don't have to stick to this, but as a general rule it makes sense. So if, as in this case, a project such as Melo is taking one of the three center spots, you're left with only two legit centers (and by "legit" I mean NBA-ready, even if they project to be only role players, such as Colton Iverson). Sure, you could try guys like Bass and Sully at center, but that's probably not gonna work out very well.

I realize that smallball is en vogue these days, as is the concept of ignoring traditional basketball positions (PG, SG, SF, PF, C) in favor of "combo" guys, but there's a reason why SGs aren't PGs, and why PFs aren't Cs; SGs are often bad ballhandlers and distributors, and PFs are often too short to effectively rebound and defend from the C spot, and I think these facts and their consequences have been clearly demonstrated by Boston teams of the past few seasons—no true ballhandler/distributor behind Rondo to keep the offense going when he's out, and no consistent rim protection and rebounding at C other than KG.

Pressey, Iverson, and Faverani could be just what this young team needs, as opposed to Melo, because even on a young, rebuilding team, you don't really want to waste time on someone who pretty clearly hasn't got a solid skill set.

[Q_FBE]

Both have guarenteed contracts while Shavlik Randolph, Jordan Crawford, and Kris Joseph have team options (in fact Kris Joseph has been waived). I am thinking that further trades are in the works to cut down the roster size and gain room under the luxery tax threshold this year and cap space next year.