For those who want to trade Rondo think about this first

[celts34pats55]

So, I'm sick and tired of ppl still saying we should trade Rondo and tank. And I have one thing for you to think over if you truly think we should.

In a re-draft of the 2006 NBA Draft, Rondo would be the #1 pick.

The only guy you can make an argument for over him is LaMarcus Aldridge.
The way I see it in a re-draft it would go:
Rondo (21st in real life)
Aldridge (2)
Paul Millsap (47...wow what a steal)
Rudy Gay (8th)

Yes, this year's draft is gonna be good. But even if you trade him and say get a top 5 pick, you're not guaranteed to get a player definitely as good as Rondo. I'm all for hoping we stink this year to get a top pick, but trading Rondo is not the answer.

[LarBrd33]

Nice.

If the 2000 draft was redone, which untouchable current player goes #1?  Hedo Turkaglu or Jamal Crawford?

[Mazingerz]

Point Guards have been drafted highly IMHO after Rondo's draft year

[paidthecost2betheboss]

So, I'm sick and tired of ppl still saying we should trade Rondo and tank. And I have one thing for you to think over if you truly think we should.

In a re-draft of the 2006 NBA Draft, Rondo would be the #1 pick.

The only guy you can make an argument for over him is LaMarcus Aldridge.
The way I see it in a re-draft it would go:
Rondo (21st in real life)
Aldridge (2)
Paul Millsap (47...wow what a steal)
Rudy Gay (8th)

Yes, this year's draft is gonna be good. But even if you trade him and say get a top 5 pick, you're not guaranteed to get a player definitely as good as Rondo. I'm all for hoping we stink this year to get a top pick, but trading Rondo is not the answer.

For some folks this isn't gonna set in. Nothing will get through to them...they need a commercial with visual aides.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ub_a2t0ZfTs

[chambers]

Most people that actually want to trade Rondo understand how good he is. He is definitely a top 3 player in that draft that Danny snagged with the 21st pick.

The problem is that he isn't a franchise changing player. There weren't any that year in fact. The closest three would be Rondo, Aldridge and Rudy Gay- Brandon Roy was probably the best of all of them but injuries never gave him the chance to be a franchise guy. Most drafts don't have a franchise guy. Like Rondo, Aldridge isn't a franchise guy either. They are the second options on a championship team. Perfect complementary pieces to a real champion player. Like Kobe was to Shaq, like Shaq was to Wade in 2006, and how Wade and Bosh have been to Lebron in the past 3 years.

With our roster/cap situation the only real shot/chance we have at getting someone like that is via the draft. If there are 2 guys like that in this upcoming draft then the 'trade Rondo' guys like me believe we should gamble and move him to try and get one of those picks.

Most of us (90% of us) know how good Rondo is- he's an All Star- I mean he's a bench All Star. That's the problem. He's never leading a team to a championship unless you have 3 more players as good as him (like the Pistons in 2004), or another player as good as him to both help a legitimate superstar carry us to the conference finals and beyond. (ie Tony Parker and Ginobli to Tim Duncan 5 years ago in their prime).
If you can tell us pro-draft guys how we can get 3 All Star or borderline All Star talents around Rondo, or how we can get a true franchise player to carry the scoring load and clutch load (like Pierce and KG were in 2008) then we'd happily come along for the ride.

We just can't see it happening and as much as we, including myself, love Rondo and understand how rare is kind of talent, swagger and heart is, it's just not enough to win us an NBA championship.

I don't know if Wiggins or Parker or Randle will be franchise guys. Maybe one or two or none of them will be. But at worst they'll probably be as good or slightly worse than Rondo is, except they'll be 7-8 years younger with 4 more years on their contract and a load of caproom to build around.

Rondo's got 2 years, a recovering ACL (serious) injury, and his best co-player is a borderline All Star who's getting better but no where near the conversation for a leading scoring option on a real contender.
Put Rondo and Green with Josh Smith and Greg Monroe and then we have a serious team.
But how could we come close to doing something like that?
We just can't with our team situation. No free agents till 2015 and even then we'll still have to make sure Rondo doesn't leave AND we'll have to sign one or two of those guys to be a chance.

Meanwhile, one of the greatest drafts of recent memory is about to take place right at the time when we have reached the breaking point that every team must go through in a salary capped professional sports league. Even the Lakers and Bulls have to use the draft eventually to land a superstar.
I use this so much it must be annoying for other Celticsbloggers but please look back at the past 25 years of NBA championship teams and also their opponent teams that reached the NBA finals.
Show me one of those teams other than the 2004 Pistons that did not draft a 'franchise' player in the lottery with their own top 5 or 10 pick or pretty close to it.

Look at the 5 best players in each position in the NBA.
Look where they were drafted...

What you'll also notice is that not one of the point guards was the 'franchise' guy on any team that made the finals or won a championship- they were a complementary piece to a franchise player. It's the same argument as to why the Clippers will never win a championship with their best player being Chris Paul. He's great. Probably the best point guard in the league- but he cannot carry a team to a championship without a player on the Durant, Lebron, KG, Duncan, Kobe level who's even better than him.
If I missed anyone please add them but I've gotten 99% of them I think. How many of the following 25 were picked outside the lottery or top 10? Then if they were outside, how many of them were international players who if playing in America/NCAA probably would have gone top 10? I'll highlight the non-lottery guys in green. I'll give credit to a RealGM poster named 'Sparringpartner' for this list.
These are in no particular order either.

Point Guards
Chris Paul picked 4th
Westbrook picked 4th
Parker picked 28th by Spurs
Irving picked 1st by Cavs
Rondo picked 21st by Celtics (via PHX)

Shooting guards
Bryant picked 13th by Lakers (via CHA)
Wade picked 5th by Heat
Harden picked 3rd by Thunder
Gordon picked 7th by Clippers
Mayo picked 3rd by Grizzles

Small Forwards
James picked 1st by Cleveland
Durant picked 2nd by Thunder
Anthony picked 3rd by Denver
Pierce picked 10th by Celtics
George picked 10th by Pacers
Rudy Gay picked 8th by Rockets
Deng picked 7th by Suns

Power Forwards
Griffin picked 1st by Clippers
Aldridge picked 2nd by Blazers
Bosh picked 4th by Raptors
Randolph picked 19th by Blazers
KG picked 5th by Wolves
Horford picked 3rd overall by Hawks
Josh Smith picked 17th by Hawks

Centers
Howard picked 1st by Magic
Duncan picked 1st by Spurs
Marc Gasol picked 2nd round pick 48 by Grizzlies
Chandler picked 2nd overall by Clippers to Bulls
Lopez picked 10th by Nets
Noah picked 9th by Bulls
Hibbert picked 17th by Pacers
Al Jefferson 14 picked by Celtics

The assumption is that there's a very high likelyhood that Andrew Wiggins and Jabari Parker are added to the Small Forwards list above and Julius Randle is added to the Power Forward list. if 4 or 5 more guys reach anywhere near their touted potential there will be even more names on that list above from the 2014 draft- similarly to the 2003 draft.

We gotta put ourselves in position to get a franchise guy. This is the best chance we'll have in a long time. Look how long other franchises go without a title until drafting a superstar. Rondo is great, I'd love to keep him. But at this point he's stopping us from being a true contender because he's too good to keep us from the bottom of the NBA but not good enough to get us into the top 6 teams without the guidance of a true superstar.

[LilRip]

And it's not like many of the rondo trades have him being traded for scrubs like Humphries or Gerald Wallace either. A popular idea I've seen floating around is Rondo for Drummond, which would be a pretty fair trade. There was also Rondo for DMC and Evans before, which also seemed pretty fair.

[TheBig3]

Two big issues with Tanking the season.

1. Loosing is contagious, even if you get the number 1 or 2, the stigma of losing can last awhile.

2. If the team is playing well (not saying championship level), the value of the pieces that Danny has collected go up as they must be performing, so say you get rid of Rondo and make Pressy the PG, and start Melo at center as some folks want to in order to tank, Pressy passes to Melo and he can't make the basket or misses the toss ups, the value of Pressy doesn't go up and the Melo stays low. So yeah you get Wiggins and nobody to build around him with.

3. As a fan, I want to see a team that is busting their hump every night and showing growth, I don't want to watch a team that gets blown out every night and is out of it by the second quarter.

[bfrombleacher]

What do tank advocates say in response to when people point out how far Carmelo, Bosh and LeBron have brought their respective drafters?

[chambers]

Two big issues with Tanking the season.

1. Loosing is contagious, even if you get the number 1 or 2, the stigma of losing can last awhile.

2. If the team is playing well (not saying championship level), the value of the pieces that Danny has collected go up as they must be performing, so say you get rid of Rondo and make Pressy the PG, and start Melo at center as some folks want to in order to tank, Pressy passes to Melo and he can't make the basket or misses the toss ups, the value of Pressy doesn't go up and the Melo stays low. So yeah you get Wiggins and nobody to build around him with.

3. As a fan, I want to see a team that is busting their hump every night and showing growth, I don't want to watch a team that gets blown out every night and is out of it by the second quarter.

I understand points 1 and 3, but point 2 doesn't make sense to me. Who cares if Melo and Pressy suck? We have Wiggins. Would you start Pressey+Melo if it meant you'd have a a 60% shot of either Wiggins, Parker or Randle, and an 85% shot at a top 5 pick?
Tough to turn down, not to mention the other assets you'd have after moving Rondo and Green that you could use to put players around Wiggins with.

[kozlodoev]

So, I'm sick and tired of ppl still saying we should trade Rondo and tank. And I have one thing for you to think over if you truly think we should.

In a re-draft of the 2006 NBA Draft, Rondo would be the #1 pick.

The only guy you can make an argument for over him is LaMarcus Aldridge.
The way I see it in a re-draft it would go:
Rondo (21st in real life)
Aldridge (2)
Paul Millsap (47...wow what a steal)
Rudy Gay (8th)

Yes, this year's draft is gonna be good. But even if you trade him and say get a top 5 pick, you're not guaranteed to get a player definitely as good as Rondo. I'm all for hoping we stink this year to get a top pick, but trading Rondo is not the answer.

The notion that LaMarcus Aldridge, a skilled, top-tier big man is less valuable than Rondo right now only shows fundamental lack of understanding of NBA player value.

[Celtics18]

So, I'm sick and tired of ppl still saying we should trade Rondo and tank. And I have one thing for you to think over if you truly think we should.

In a re-draft of the 2006 NBA Draft, Rondo would be the #1 pick.

The only guy you can make an argument for over him is LaMarcus Aldridge.
The way I see it in a re-draft it would go:
Rondo (21st in real life)
Aldridge (2)
Paul Millsap (47...wow what a steal)
Rudy Gay (8th)

Yes, this year's draft is gonna be good. But even if you trade him and say get a top 5 pick, you're not guaranteed to get a player definitely as good as Rondo. I'm all for hoping we stink this year to get a top pick, but trading Rondo is not the answer.

The notion that LaMarcus Aldridge, a skilled, top-tier big man is less valuable than Rondo right now only shows fundamental lack of understanding of NBA player value.

He did actually say that you could make an argument for Aldridge over Rondo.  It's definitely debatable, though. 

Would you agree that he's almost certainly top two in his draft class, arguably number 1?

Of course, CeltsPats is right that it's nowhere near a guarantee that if you trade him now that you will get a player in the upcoming draft who ever reaches anything near Rondo's top level. 

[kozlodoev]

So, I'm sick and tired of ppl still saying we should trade Rondo and tank. And I have one thing for you to think over if you truly think we should.

In a re-draft of the 2006 NBA Draft, Rondo would be the #1 pick.

The only guy you can make an argument for over him is LaMarcus Aldridge.
The way I see it in a re-draft it would go:
Rondo (21st in real life)
Aldridge (2)
Paul Millsap (47...wow what a steal)
Rudy Gay (8th)

Yes, this year's draft is gonna be good. But even if you trade him and say get a top 5 pick, you're not guaranteed to get a player definitely as good as Rondo. I'm all for hoping we stink this year to get a top pick, but trading Rondo is not the answer.

The notion that LaMarcus Aldridge, a skilled, top-tier big man is less valuable than Rondo right now only shows fundamental lack of understanding of NBA player value.

He did actually say that you could make an argument for Aldridge over Rondo.  It's definitely debatable, though. 

Would you agree that he's almost certainly top two in his draft class, arguably number 1?

Of course, CeltsPats is right that it's nowhere near a guarantee that if you trade him now that you will get a player in the upcoming draft who ever reaches anything near Rondo's top level.

I don't think anyone (including the management) plans to give away Rondo for nothing/picks. He would have been gone by now if that was the case.

[TheBig3]

Two big issues with Tanking the season.

1. Loosing is contagious, even if you get the number 1 or 2, the stigma of losing can last awhile.

2. If the team is playing well (not saying championship level), the value of the pieces that Danny has collected go up as they must be performing, so say you get rid of Rondo and make Pressy the PG, and start Melo at center as some folks want to in order to tank, Pressy passes to Melo and he can't make the basket or misses the toss ups, the value of Pressy doesn't go up and the Melo stays low. So yeah you get Wiggins and nobody to build around him with.

3. As a fan, I want to see a team that is busting their hump every night and showing growth, I don't want to watch a team that gets blown out every night and is out of it by the second quarter.

I understand points 1 and 3, but point 2 doesn't make sense to me. Who cares if Melo and Pressy suck? We have Wiggins. Would you start Pressey+Melo if it meant you'd have a a 60% shot of either Wiggins, Parker or Randle, and an 85% shot at a top 5 pick?
Tough to turn down, not to mention the other assets you'd have after moving Rondo and Green that you could use to put players around Wiggins with.

If you are trying to tank it I would imagine that the assets you get would have to be pretty bad to keep in Tank mode? Especially with salary's having to match up. Yeah you can get more picks for them maybe and expiring contracts maybe from bad teams, other wise more late round draft picks...

[PhoSita]

Nice.

If the 2000 draft was redone, which untouchable current player goes #1?  Hedo Turkaglu or Jamal Crawford?

Yeah, I'm not sure what the OP is trying to prove.

For the record, if I were a rebuilding team back in 2006 and I had the gift of foresight, I'd take Aldridge first.

[Moranis]

Nice.

If the 2000 draft was redone, which untouchable current player goes #1?  Hedo Turkaglu or Jamal Crawford?

Yeah, I'm not sure what the OP is trying to prove.

For the record, if I were a rebuilding team back in 2006 and I had the gift of foresight, I'd take Aldridge first.

Yeah that was a very weak draft.  I mean depending on what you do with Roy, JJ Redick might very well be a top 5 pick in that draft.  One year prior and JJ Redick isn't even in the top 10 (and is borderline one year after as well).