We have one option TANK!

[GreenEnvy]

OP didn't respond yet, and my intention wasn't to attack him. My point is this: if you're a competitive person, you've worked very hard at your game for many years, you don't "give in." You don't tank a game, for example, because there's someone on the sidelines that you can pick up for your 5th next game who will give you a far better chance of winning. That's not how winning is done.

I'm not saying we lose games on purpose.  I'm just saying play with what we have and develop it.  Bringing in some crap overpaid free agent is a waste of time this season.

That makes sense to me. I just read a ton of threads filled with posts focused on how we can become worse, tank, suck, blow it all up, etc. That doesn't make sense to me, strategically nor psychologically.

No matter how irrational or pathetic it sounds, I'll still root for this time to win. I feel like you have to. You talk yourself into it, even when you know it's not going to happen, just because you're invested and want it to work. Maybe this is a more old-school mentality - sticking with your guys because their "our team," and really identifying with and pulling for the players that wear Celtics on the front of the jersey. But I'm gonna be locking down and talking junk to my puppy and/or annoyed girlfriend in the living room when we are in a nail-biter with the Bobcats next year. And I can't wait.

It's hard to be very rah rah for this team when they just traded away the heart and soul of the team and got intentionally worse with an eye on the future. Ownership/management does not have winning now as priority number one, so why should us fans?

[tarheelsxxiii]

OP didn't respond yet, and my intention wasn't to attack him. My point is this: if you're a competitive person, you've worked very hard at your game for many years, you don't "give in." You don't tank a game, for example, because there's someone on the sidelines that you can pick up for your 5th next game who will give you a far better chance of winning. That's not how winning is done.

I'm not saying we lose games on purpose.  I'm just saying play with what we have and develop it.  Bringing in some crap overpaid free agent is a waste of time this season.

That makes sense to me. I just read a ton of threads filled with posts focused on how we can become worse, tank, suck, blow it all up, etc. That doesn't make sense to me, strategically nor psychologically.

No matter how irrational or pathetic it sounds, I'll still root for this time to win. I feel like you have to. You talk yourself into it, even when you know it's not going to happen, just because you're invested and want it to work. Maybe this is a more old-school mentality - sticking with your guys because their "our team," and really identifying with and pulling for the players that wear Celtics on the front of the jersey. But I'm gonna be locking down and talking junk to my puppy and/or annoyed girlfriend in the living room when we are in a nail-biter with the Bobcats next year. And I can't wait.

It's hard to be very rah rah for this team when they just traded away the heart and soul of the team and got intentionally worse with an eye on the future. Ownership/management does not have winning now as priority number one, so why should us fans?

I don't think it's about rah rah. It's about gritting your teeth and fighting. I appreciate making the moves/adjustments you need in order to put yourself in a competitive position for the future... but still play hard, fight to win games. In my opinion, the growth that may come of our current youngsters, if they are to play and practice with that attitude, will make more of a difference in 20-whatever than whether we get the 5th or 9th pick in next year's draft.

Bradley, Sully, Green, Olynyk (clearing throat), are solid young players. Given they can be healthy, better than what a lot of other teams in the league have to develop.

[nickagneta]

Actually there is a lot more options than tanking. If you are looking at nothing but short term and "well we aren't winning a title next year so let's tank to get Wiggins, Randle, etc.", then that is a horrible philosophy.

How many championships has Lebron won for Cleveland, Durant for OKC, Oden for Portland, Irving for Cleveland, Bosh for Toronto, Darko for Detroit, Rose for Chicago, Wall for Washington, Griffin for the Clippers, Harden for OKC, Bargnani for Toronto, Aldridge for Portland, Bogut for Milwaukee, Paul for New Orleans, Williams for Utah, Howard for Orlando, Anthony for Denver, or Yao for Houston.

These are some of the greatest stars chosen in the draft at the top of the draft over the last 10 years. None won titles for the team that drafted them. Dwyane Wade is about the only player over that span, chosen near the top of the draft, that won a title for the team that drafted him.

One guy over the last decade chosen near the top of the draft that won a title for the team that drafted him. One.

Tanking to get a 19 year old kid because he stands a one chance in a million of being a guy that will be great enough years down the line to win a title and still be on your team when he does it is just, IMHO, really, really..............trying to think of a nice word that isn't insulting to a person's intelligence.........illogical and against all odds.

Its like having a million dollars and investing it in a new unknown, unproven, never before stock on Wall Street thinking you are guaranteed a fortune when the truth is, you are way more likely to have just given away a million dollars and lost everything. Its bad business and just plain dumb.
 

[Boston Garden Leprechaun]

I, personally will enjoy the journey that we are about to go on. I will watch as many games as i can on NBA league pass. I will still go see them play in New Orleans yet again this year. 3 to 5 years is a very short time compared to 22. at least we have a plan. we'll be back. LET'S GO CELTICS!

[Boston Garden Leprechaun]

Actually there is a lot more options than tanking. If you are looking at nothing but short term and "well we aren't winning a title next year so let's tank to get Wiggins, Randle, etc.", then that is a horrible philosophy.

How many championships has Lebron won for Cleveland, Durant for OKC, Oden for Portland, Irving for Cleveland, Bosh for Toronto, Darko for Detroit, Rose for Chicago, Wall for Washington, Griffin for the Clippers, Harden for OKC, Bargnani for Toronto, Aldridge for Portland, Bogut for Milwaukee, Paul for New Orleans, Williams for Utah, Howard for Orlando, Anthony for Denver, or Yao for Houston.

These are some of the greatest stars chosen in the draft at the top of the draft over the last 10 years. None won titles for the team that drafted them. Dwyane Wade is about the only player over that span, chosen near the top of the draft, that won a title for the team that drafted him.

One guy over the last decade chosen near the top of the draft that won a title for the team that drafted him. One.

Tanking to get a 19 year old kid because he stands a one chance in a million of being a guy that will be great enough years down the line to win a title and still be on your team when he does it is just, IMHO, really, really..............trying to think of a nice word that isn't insulting to a person's intelligence.........illogical and against all odds.

Its like having a million dollars and investing it in a new unknown, unproven, never before stock on Wall Street thinking you are guaranteed a fortune when the truth is, you are way more likely to have just given away a million dollars and lost everything. Its bad business and just plain dumb.

ummmm I am pretty sure the plan is not to just get one good young player but several either through drafting and/or trading assets.

[GreenEnvy]

OP didn't respond yet, and my intention wasn't to attack him. My point is this: if you're a competitive person, you've worked very hard at your game for many years, you don't "give in." You don't tank a game, for example, because there's someone on the sidelines that you can pick up for your 5th next game who will give you a far better chance of winning. That's not how winning is done.

I'm not saying we lose games on purpose.  I'm just saying play with what we have and develop it.  Bringing in some crap overpaid free agent is a waste of time this season.

That makes sense to me. I just read a ton of threads filled with posts focused on how we can become worse, tank, suck, blow it all up, etc. That doesn't make sense to me, strategically nor psychologically.

No matter how irrational or pathetic it sounds, I'll still root for this time to win. I feel like you have to. You talk yourself into it, even when you know it's not going to happen, just because you're invested and want it to work. Maybe this is a more old-school mentality - sticking with your guys because their "our team," and really identifying with and pulling for the players that wear Celtics on the front of the jersey. But I'm gonna be locking down and talking junk to my puppy and/or annoyed girlfriend in the living room when we are in a nail-biter with the Bobcats next year. And I can't wait.

It's hard to be very rah rah for this team when they just traded away the heart and soul of the team and got intentionally worse with an eye on the future. Ownership/management does not have winning now as priority number one, so why should us fans?

I don't think it's about rah rah. It's about gritting your teeth and fighting. Makes the moves you need to make to put yourself in a competitive position for the future... but still play hard, fight to win games. In my opinion, the growth that may come of our current youngsters, if they are to play and practice with that attitude, will make far more of a difference in 20-whatever than the 5th or 9th pick in next year's draft.

Bradley, Sully, Green, Olynyk (clearing throat), are solid young players. Given they can be healthy, better than what a lot of other teams in the league have to develop.

I disagree that this group growing and fighting every game will have nearly as big an impact on this franchise than a top pick in the draft next year. The team just isn't that talented. Green, Rondo, Sullinger. That's it. All of Ainges bigs are usually stiffs. Bradley is a one-trick pony. Lee and Bass are what they are, role players.

[tarheelsxxiii]

OP didn't respond yet, and my intention wasn't to attack him. My point is this: if you're a competitive person, you've worked very hard at your game for many years, you don't "give in." You don't tank a game, for example, because there's someone on the sidelines that you can pick up for your 5th next game who will give you a far better chance of winning. That's not how winning is done.

I'm not saying we lose games on purpose.  I'm just saying play with what we have and develop it.  Bringing in some crap overpaid free agent is a waste of time this season.

That makes sense to me. I just read a ton of threads filled with posts focused on how we can become worse, tank, suck, blow it all up, etc. That doesn't make sense to me, strategically nor psychologically.

No matter how irrational or pathetic it sounds, I'll still root for this time to win. I feel like you have to. You talk yourself into it, even when you know it's not going to happen, just because you're invested and want it to work. Maybe this is a more old-school mentality - sticking with your guys because their "our team," and really identifying with and pulling for the players that wear Celtics on the front of the jersey. But I'm gonna be locking down and talking junk to my puppy and/or annoyed girlfriend in the living room when we are in a nail-biter with the Bobcats next year. And I can't wait.

It's hard to be very rah rah for this team when they just traded away the heart and soul of the team and got intentionally worse with an eye on the future. Ownership/management does not have winning now as priority number one, so why should us fans?

I don't think it's about rah rah. It's about gritting your teeth and fighting. Makes the moves you need to make to put yourself in a competitive position for the future... but still play hard, fight to win games. In my opinion, the growth that may come of our current youngsters, if they are to play and practice with that attitude, will make far more of a difference in 20-whatever than the 5th or 9th pick in next year's draft.

Bradley, Sully, Green, Olynyk (clearing throat), are solid young players. Given they can be healthy, better than what a lot of other teams in the league have to develop.

I disagree that this group growing and fighting every game will have nearly as big an impact on this franchise than a top pick in the draft next year. The team just isn't that talented. Green, Rondo, Sullinger. That's it. All of Ainges bigs are usually stiffs. Bradley is a one-trick pony. Lee and Bass are what they are, role players.

That's fair. Just saying, I'd rather focus on grooming soldiers than worrying about the difference b/w the 5th pick and the 9th pick next year.

I didn't like Sully b/c of his contribution to the box scores. I liked that he took on KG's mentality on both ends. He's talented, which is awesome. But more importantly to me, he was the one other guy on the floor that gave hard fouls, wasn't afraid to lower his shoulder. AND, the only other guy to go up and swat the ball away when someone shot after a dead whistle. As soon as a I saw a couple of those fouls, his swag, and that... he was a keeper, in my book.

[GreenEnvy]

Actually there is a lot more options than tanking. If you are looking at nothing but short term and "well we aren't winning a title next year so let's tank to get Wiggins, Randle, etc.", then that is a horrible philosophy.

How many championships has Lebron won for Cleveland, Durant for OKC, Oden for Portland, Irving for Cleveland, Bosh for Toronto, Darko for Detroit, Rose for Chicago, Wall for Washington, Griffin for the Clippers, Harden for OKC, Bargnani for Toronto, Aldridge for Portland, Bogut for Milwaukee, Paul for New Orleans, Williams for Utah, Howard for Orlando, Anthony for Denver, or Yao for Houston.

These are some of the greatest stars chosen in the draft at the top of the draft over the last 10 years. None won titles for the team that drafted them. Dwyane Wade is about the only player over that span, chosen near the top of the draft, that won a title for the team that drafted him.

One guy over the last decade chosen near the top of the draft that won a title for the team that drafted him. One.

Tanking to get a 19 year old kid because he stands a one chance in a million of being a guy that will be great enough years down the line to win a title and still be on your team when he does it is just, IMHO, really, really..............trying to think of a nice word that isn't insulting to a person's intelligence.........illogical and against all odds.

Its like having a million dollars and investing it in a new unknown, unproven, never before stock on Wall Street thinking you are guaranteed a fortune when the truth is, you are way more likely to have just given away a million dollars and lost everything. Its bad business and just plain dumb.

2014 is not just a draft, it's supposedly loaded with future stars.

29 teams do not win titles each year. That's a lot of great players coming up short. Doesn't mean they aren't great.

Nobody is saying win the lottery and we are guaranteed a dynasty. But there are franchise-level players in this draft. Not Bargnani's and Darko's but legit talent.

Taking a gigantic leap backwards for a year makes sense. We aren't winning squat this year, so what's 15 more wins in the regular season really worth to you? Worth missing out on potentially the next big star?

[GreenEnvy]

OP didn't respond yet, and my intention wasn't to attack him. My point is this: if you're a competitive person, you've worked very hard at your game for many years, you don't "give in." You don't tank a game, for example, because there's someone on the sidelines that you can pick up for your 5th next game who will give you a far better chance of winning. That's not how winning is done.

I'm not saying we lose games on purpose.  I'm just saying play with what we have and develop it.  Bringing in some crap overpaid free agent is a waste of time this season.

That makes sense to me. I just read a ton of threads filled with posts focused on how we can become worse, tank, suck, blow it all up, etc. That doesn't make sense to me, strategically nor psychologically.

No matter how irrational or pathetic it sounds, I'll still root for this time to win. I feel like you have to. You talk yourself into it, even when you know it's not going to happen, just because you're invested and want it to work. Maybe this is a more old-school mentality - sticking with your guys because their "our team," and really identifying with and pulling for the players that wear Celtics on the front of the jersey. But I'm gonna be locking down and talking junk to my puppy and/or annoyed girlfriend in the living room when we are in a nail-biter with the Bobcats next year. And I can't wait.

It's hard to be very rah rah for this team when they just traded away the heart and soul of the team and got intentionally worse with an eye on the future. Ownership/management does not have winning now as priority number one, so why should us fans?

I don't think it's about rah rah. It's about gritting your teeth and fighting. Makes the moves you need to make to put yourself in a competitive position for the future... but still play hard, fight to win games. In my opinion, the growth that may come of our current youngsters, if they are to play and practice with that attitude, will make far more of a difference in 20-whatever than the 5th or 9th pick in next year's draft.

Bradley, Sully, Green, Olynyk (clearing throat), are solid young players. Given they can be healthy, better than what a lot of other teams in the league have to develop.

I disagree that this group growing and fighting every game will have nearly as big an impact on this franchise than a top pick in the draft next year. The team just isn't that talented. Green, Rondo, Sullinger. That's it. All of Ainges bigs are usually stiffs. Bradley is a one-trick pony. Lee and Bass are what they are, role players.

That's fair. Just saying, I'd rather focus on grooming soldiers than worrying about the difference b/w the 5th pick and the 9th pick next year.

I didn't like Sully b/c of his contribution to the box scores. I liked that he took on KG's mentality on both ends. He's talented, which is awesome. But more importantly to me, he was the one other guy on the floor that gave hard fouls, wasn't afraid to lower his shoulder. AND, the only other guy to go up and swat the ball away when someone shot after a dead whistle. As soon as a I saw a couple of those fouls, his swag, and that... he was a keeper, in my book.

I agree with Sully completely. As long as his back issues are cleared up, he is definitely a keeper IMO.

And normally I'd also agree with you about 5 vs 9, but supposedly this draft you realllllly want to be in the top 5.

Most drafts other than 2003 don't make a huge difference outside the top pick or two or three tops.

[Ogaju]

you cannot practice losing, do you really want to be the modern day Clippers? We traded them a coach, please don't trade away our winning culture.

Besides, if there is only one option then you cannot call it TANKING.

TANKING means you had an option to win but consciously decided to lose. Therefore TANKING by its very definition is never a SOLE OPTION.

[celticmania]

I hope we trade Rondo for another lotto pick. I really like Wiggins and Randle. I know its way to early to say but I think with them 2 we will be in good shape to compete for years.

[nickagneta]

2014 is not just a draft, it's supposedly loaded with future stars.

29 teams do not win titles each year. That's a lot of great players coming up short. Doesn't mean they aren't great.

Nobody is saying win the lottery and we are guaranteed a dynasty. But there are franchise-level players in this draft. Not Bargnani's and Darko's but legit talent.

Taking a gigantic leap backwards for a year makes sense. We aren't winning squat this year, so what's 15 more wins in the regular season really worth to you? Worth missing out on potentially the next big star?

1. Do you mean a draft like the one where Lebron, Carmelo, Wade, and Bosh can out? You mean its a draft like that? How many of those guys won a ring with the team that drafted them? How many of those guys are still with the team that drafted them?

2. Yes, I want those extra 15 wins. Why? Because winning breeds more winning an losing breeds more losing. And super young future superstars almost never win rings. Established superstars that have bee around a while win rings. So get that extra 15 wins. Manuever salary around and get cap space and go get an established superstar to add to this core to win a championship. THAT is way smarter than tanking to get a kid that MIGHT be good, MIGHT be great, MIGHT be good enough to become a superstar, and MIGHT be around long enough to win the team a championship years and years later. Why? Because the fact remains that even the greatest of players usually will take 7-8 years to be mature, strong, talented and lucky enough  and remain with the team long enough to win that championship.

[Scintan]

1. Do you mean a draft like the one where Lebron, Carmelo, Wade, and Bosh can out? You mean its a draft like that? How many of those guys won a ring with the team that drafted them? How many of those guys are still with the team that drafted them?

James went to the finals with Cleveland, for example, so it's not as if Cleveland didn't get good value out of the pick.  Also, James has won 2 titles, as has Bosh, and Wade has more than that.  Also, Wade was drafted by the Heat, so he's won his titles for his original team.

James - 1 finals appearance with his original team, 2 titles elsewhere

Bosh - 2 titles elsewhere

Wade - 3 titles with his original team

You seem to be nitpicking.


The NBA is about the talent.  NBA titles are generally about high end, or elite, talent, and usually more than one such talent on the winning team.

[erisred]

Well, let's see what we could put on the court...

1. Bradley, Pressey, Rondo
2. Brooks, Crawford, Lee
3. Green, Bogans, Wallace
4. Sullinger, Olynyk, Bass
5. Melo, Iverson, Humphries

...Pressey might not stick, but the C's will need somebody like him if Rondo is sitting. You would lose almost all your games if you played the first and second columns and, for the most part, sat the third. That's not really dumping anybody, just not playing the vets and letting Rondo recover very slowly.

That won't happen, though. Stevens will try to win, that's what coaches do. So, he'll put lineups on the court that have the best chance to win, and the players will try to win, that's what players...Celtics players...do. We'd still lose a lot of games and probably not make the playoffs, but we wouldn't totally stink. We wouldn't get a tranformative player in the draft either.

The only way to insure a real tank is to do it from the Front Office. Danny would have to remove some of those third column players from the roster. Rondo, he can keep, but keep on Injured Reserve...which Rondo will hate and that might not be viable, but he could try it. Bogans, Lee and Bass he could try to move this summer for picks, but I doubt he gets good deals on them...if he can get deals at all. Humphries will be harder to move, but he is expiring so maybe. Wallace he isn't going to be able to shift, we're stuck with Gerald for a year or two...now we could stretch waive him (7 years @ $4.14M ), but I don't see that happening.

Oh, and unless Danny can dump a few guys, you can say goodbye to Randolph, we won't have a spot for Datome (assuming he really does want to sign with us), and/or Iverson is heading for Europe.

Whether we tank or not, Danny still has a lot of work to do!

[BASS_THUMPER]