We might not have to tank. We'll be terrible. Celtics win record in 13-14?

[Celtics18]

If we want lottery we either tank or trade Rondo

There is no way that if Rondo plays, that we will be a lotto team

Rondo is not going to singlehandedly make this young and skills-challenged Celtics team a playoff team.  40 something wins is not easy to come by.

Even if Rondo is fully healthy at the start of the season and goes on to have a great season, the defense should prevent enough victories to jump out of the lottery.  With Bass, Sullinger, Olynyk and Melo as the bigs, this team is going to be terrible at defending the rim and paint.

Interior defense is definitely my biggest concern with this team as currently constituted.  The guards and wings--Rondo, Bradley, Green, Wallace--are going to have to help those guys out by putting a lot of pressure on the opposing offenses, and really working hard out near mid-court to make it difficult for the opponents to get into their offense.  And, I'd love to see them being a high turnover producing team. 

I think they'll definitely have to be a pace pushing team if they want any chance of winning 50% of their games.  I see a lot of the dreaded small ball with Green and Wallace at the forward spots and one of the "bigs" in the middle. 

Done right, I think this will be a fun team to watch, and, yes, I think they'll have a shot at being a playoff team.

[Q_FBE]

A lot of what our final record will be is in the number of teams engaging into the race for the bottom. There will be a lot of bad basketball teams next year looking for one of the big prizes in FA and in the draft. For example, in Kobe's "final" season where he steals 30 million dollars and Gasoft steals another 19 million, if they lose DH12, Kupchak can engineer a 20-62 team with Kobe sitting out. Then he signs Lebron James, drafts Andrew Wiggins, resigns Kobe on the cheap and we are staring at a championships deficit that I will hang myself on the Space Needle for. That doomsday scenario is something I did not want to bring up, here.

I see us as a third place Atlantic division team at 34 and 48 and that will probably earn us a 10th round pick. Can we bother a top three team into a Sullenger, AB, 10 and Clipspick to move up in 2014?

[Galeto]

The Celtics should rank in the 20s in defensive efficiency next season.  That alone is enough to push a team out of the playoffs.  But of course that's not all, because I don't see how this team is going to rate highly on offense either.  There is not one primary scorer on this team and I wouldn't put Green in that category without seeing how he looks being defended by small forwards most of the time next season.  He was significantly better on offense against either power forwards or being defended by the lesser wing defender.

Even if this team is mediocre on offense, let's say 17th in offensive efficiency, that coupled with the bad defense, computes out to a bad ball club.

I really didn't know Pierce and Garnett were holding this team back so much or made no difference at all. 

[Q_FBE]

Well if we trade Rondo to Houston for Jeremy Lin, I think that would convince me that we are trying to race to the bottom.

[Celtics18]

The Celtics should rank in the 20s in defensive efficiency next season.  That alone is enough to push a team out of the playoffs.  But of course that's not all, because I don't see how this team is going to rate highly on offense either.  There is not one primary scorer on this team and I wouldn't put Green in that category without seeing how he looks being defended by small forwards most of the time next season.  He was significantly better on offense against either power forwards or being defended by the lesser wing defender.

Even if this team is mediocre on offense, let's say 17th in offensive efficiency, that coupled with the bad defense, computes out to a bad ball club.

I really didn't know Pierce and Garnett were holding this team back so much or made no difference at all.

I don't think anyone is saying that Pierce and Garnett were holding this team back, or that they made no difference at all.  I don't think that this current roster will have any chance at legitimately contending for a title (something that I still think they might have at an outside shot at last year had Rondo been healthy).  Those guys are irreplaceable.

I'm still in mourning {particularly over the loss of the Captain), but now that they are gone, I am hoping to see an up-tempo style built around Rondo really pushing the pace with guys who can run the floor with him.  Yes, the interior defense will suffer, but I think we have the makings of a team that can do a good job turning defense into offense. 

I'm not trying to get carried away.  It seems to me that .500 is about the absolute best we can hope for with this group.  And, that's what I'm hoping for.

[Celtics18]

Well if we trade Rondo to Houston for Jeremy Lin, I think that would convince me that we are trying to race to the bottom.

If that happens, then I might seriously consider turning in my 33 year long membership as a fan of the Boston Celtics. 

[WeMadeIt17]

I honestly don't think we'll be awful. We still have an all star pg, and scorer in Jeff, a lock down defender in AB, and combined with Bass, Sully, and whomever else we have we could be as good as the bucks were last year. Which i am not saying were any good, but made the playoffs.

[chambers]

If we want lottery we either tank or trade Rondo

There is no way that if Rondo plays, that we will be a lotto team

Rondo is not going to singlehandedly make this young and skills-challenged Celtics team a playoff team.  40 something wins is not easy to come by.

Even if Rondo is fully healthy at the start of the season and goes on to have a great season, the defense should prevent enough victories to jump out of the lottery.  With Bass, Sullinger, Olynyk and Melo as the bigs, this team is going to be terrible at defending the rim and paint.

Interior defense is definitely my biggest concern with this team as currently constituted.  The guards and wings--Rondo, Bradley, Green, Wallace--are going to have to help those guys out by putting a lot of pressure on the opposing offenses, and really working hard out near mid-court to make it difficult for the opponents to get into their offense.  And, I'd love to see them being a high turnover producing team. 

I think they'll definitely have to be a pace pushing team if they want any chance of winning 50% of their games.  I see a lot of the dreaded small ball with Green and Wallace at the forward spots and one of the "bigs" in the middle. 

Done right, I think this will be a fun team to watch, and, yes, I think they'll have a shot at being a playoff team.

I actually don't think it's possible to do it right.
We had KG in the paint last year and scraped our way to a .500 season. There's no scenario where Gerald Wallace,Jeff Green, Rondo and Avery Bradley somehow 'help' enough by forcing turnovers enough to stop a teams advantage inside.
That's just on defense.

How do we score any jumpshots with this squad. How do we get 3 point baskets? No Pierce, no Terry. Our two best shooters gone.
How does this team stop combos like:
Dwight/P Gasol
Randolph/M Gasol
Chandler/Stoudemire
Noah/Boozer
Melo/Chandler Hibbert/West
Robin Lopez/Athony Davis
Nick Vucevic/ Glen Davis
Kanter/Favours
Any team with Al Jeff or Millsap.
I could go on all night.

We will be like Chris Paul's Hornets squad without David West and Tyson Chandler- with and upgraded version of Trevor Ariza in Jeff Green. 

Quite possibly utter garbage?

[BballTim]

If we want lottery we either tank or trade Rondo

There is no way that if Rondo plays, that we will be a lotto team

Rondo is not going to singlehandedly make this young and skills-challenged Celtics team a playoff team.  40 something wins is not easy to come by.

Even if Rondo is fully healthy at the start of the season and goes on to have a great season, the defense should prevent enough victories to jump out of the lottery.  With Bass, Sullinger, Olynyk and Melo as the bigs, this team is going to be terrible at defending the rim and paint.

Interior defense is definitely my biggest concern with this team as currently constituted.  The guards and wings--Rondo, Bradley, Green, Wallace--are going to have to help those guys out by putting a lot of pressure on the opposing offenses, and really working hard out near mid-court to make it difficult for the opponents to get into their offense.  And, I'd love to see them being a high turnover producing team. 

I think they'll definitely have to be a pace pushing team if they want any chance of winning 50% of their games.  I see a lot of the dreaded small ball with Green and Wallace at the forward spots and one of the "bigs" in the middle. 

Done right, I think this will be a fun team to watch, and, yes, I think they'll have a shot at being a playoff team.

I actually don't think it's possible to do it right.
We had KG in the paint last year and scraped our way to a .500 season. There's no scenario where Gerald Wallace,Jeff Green, Rondo and Avery Bradley somehow 'help' enough by forcing turnovers enough to stop a teams advantage inside.
That's just on defense.

How do we score any jumpshots with this squad. How do we get 3 point baskets? No Pierce, no Terry. Our two best shooters gone.
How does this team stop combos like:
Dwight/P Gasol
Randolph/M Gasol
Chandler/Stoudemire
Noah/Boozer
Melo/Chandler Hibbert/West
Robin Lopez/Athony Davis
Nick Vucevic/ Glen Davis
Kanter/Favours
Any team with Al Jeff or Millsap.
I could go on all night.

We will be like Chris Paul's Hornets squad without David West and Tyson Chandler- with and upgraded version of Trevor Ariza in Jeff Green. 

Quite possibly utter garbage?

  Maybe. But just out of curiosity, after the first of the year or so our defense was just as good with KG on the bench as it was when he was in the game. How do you account for that? Why will things be so much worse without KG in November than they were in March?

[chambers]

I honestly don't think we'll be awful. We still have an all star pg, and scorer in Jeff, a lock down defender in AB, and combined with Bass, Sully, and whomever else we have we could be as good as the bucks were last year. Which i am not saying were any good, but made the playoffs.

Well that's the same team we had last year, except we've taken away the defensive big man who makes a top 5 defensive team. If you correlate this to when he was off the floor during games last season, we will be a bottom 5 defensive team. What's worse is we don't have any replacement whatsoever for him.

 We've also taken away our All Star wing scorer in Pierce.
We've added our All Star point guard, but he's not a scoring PG, he's a passing PG who just lost two All Star team mates.
Who does Rondo pass to on the wings for reliable three point shooting now? Jeff Green and Courtney Lee?
Who does he throw lobs to around the basket? Olnyk? Iverson?

They will be fun to watch on the fast break. And their wing defense will be nice and force a few turnover fast break points.
But it stops there.
Rebounding from Sully. Who else?
Shooting from Green and Lee. Who else?
Scoring, maybe 20 ppg from Green, Rondo 15-20 ppg on and off, Wallace is good for 10ppg...Bass maybe 10 ppg? Bradley 10-12? Maybe 10/10 for Sully.

This team makes the 2012-13 Bucks look like a contender.

[Celtics18]

If we want lottery we either tank or trade Rondo

There is no way that if Rondo plays, that we will be a lotto team

Rondo is not going to singlehandedly make this young and skills-challenged Celtics team a playoff team.  40 something wins is not easy to come by.

Even if Rondo is fully healthy at the start of the season and goes on to have a great season, the defense should prevent enough victories to jump out of the lottery.  With Bass, Sullinger, Olynyk and Melo as the bigs, this team is going to be terrible at defending the rim and paint.

Interior defense is definitely my biggest concern with this team as currently constituted.  The guards and wings--Rondo, Bradley, Green, Wallace--are going to have to help those guys out by putting a lot of pressure on the opposing offenses, and really working hard out near mid-court to make it difficult for the opponents to get into their offense.  And, I'd love to see them being a high turnover producing team. 

I think they'll definitely have to be a pace pushing team if they want any chance of winning 50% of their games.  I see a lot of the dreaded small ball with Green and Wallace at the forward spots and one of the "bigs" in the middle. 

Done right, I think this will be a fun team to watch, and, yes, I think they'll have a shot at being a playoff team.

I actually don't think it's possible to do it right.
We had KG in the paint last year and scraped our way to a .500 season. There's no scenario where Gerald Wallace,Jeff Green, Rondo and Avery Bradley somehow 'help' enough by forcing turnovers enough to stop a teams advantage inside.
That's just on defense.

How do we score any jumpshots with this squad. How do we get 3 point baskets? No Pierce, no Terry. Our two best shooters gone.
How does this team stop combos like:
Dwight/P Gasol
Randolph/M Gasol
Chandler/Stoudemire
Noah/Boozer
Melo/Chandler Hibbert/West
Robin Lopez/Athony Davis
Nick Vucevic/ Glen Davis
Kanter/Favours
Any team with Al Jeff or Millsap.
I could go on all night.

We will be like Chris Paul's Hornets squad without David West and Tyson Chandler- with and upgraded version of Trevor Ariza in Jeff Green. 

Quite possibly utter garbage?

Well, you can't really go on all night.  The ceiling is 29 and you are already at ten.  Like I said, interior defense won't be our strength.  It wasn't really the Miami Heat's strength this past season either.  Obviously, we won't be anywhere near in the league of the best team in basketball, but I'm just saying, there are ways to compete defensively without having an elite rim protector. 

As to the shooting, we've got some shooters:  Green, Brooks, Olynyk, Bradley, Bass are all fairly competent shooters.  Rondo will get them good looks if we go up-tempo. 

[chambers]

If we want lottery we either tank or trade Rondo

There is no way that if Rondo plays, that we will be a lotto team

Rondo is not going to singlehandedly make this young and skills-challenged Celtics team a playoff team.  40 something wins is not easy to come by.

Even if Rondo is fully healthy at the start of the season and goes on to have a great season, the defense should prevent enough victories to jump out of the lottery.  With Bass, Sullinger, Olynyk and Melo as the bigs, this team is going to be terrible at defending the rim and paint.

Interior defense is definitely my biggest concern with this team as currently constituted.  The guards and wings--Rondo, Bradley, Green, Wallace--are going to have to help those guys out by putting a lot of pressure on the opposing offenses, and really working hard out near mid-court to make it difficult for the opponents to get into their offense.  And, I'd love to see them being a high turnover producing team. 

I think they'll definitely have to be a pace pushing team if they want any chance of winning 50% of their games.  I see a lot of the dreaded small ball with Green and Wallace at the forward spots and one of the "bigs" in the middle. 

Done right, I think this will be a fun team to watch, and, yes, I think they'll have a shot at being a playoff team.

I actually don't think it's possible to do it right.
We had KG in the paint last year and scraped our way to a .500 season. There's no scenario where Gerald Wallace,Jeff Green, Rondo and Avery Bradley somehow 'help' enough by forcing turnovers enough to stop a teams advantage inside.
That's just on defense.

How do we score any jumpshots with this squad. How do we get 3 point baskets? No Pierce, no Terry. Our two best shooters gone.
How does this team stop combos like:
Dwight/P Gasol
Randolph/M Gasol
Chandler/Stoudemire
Noah/Boozer
Melo/Chandler Hibbert/West
Robin Lopez/Athony Davis
Nick Vucevic/ Glen Davis
Kanter/Favours
Any team with Al Jeff or Millsap.
I could go on all night.

We will be like Chris Paul's Hornets squad without David West and Tyson Chandler- with and upgraded version of Trevor Ariza in Jeff Green. 

Quite possibly utter garbage?

  Maybe. But just out of curiosity, after the first of the year or so our defense was just as good with KG on the bench as it was when he was in the game. How do you account for that? Why will things be so much worse without KG in November than they were in March?

I haven't heard that. Where'd you see that stat?
I'd have to question how healthy Garnett was at the time when he was playing and if his health affected his defensive impact.

I'd have to see if KG got bad and regressed to the team level or if the team improved to KG's level.
I really doubt it's the second option.

Make me a believer.

[BballTim]

I honestly don't think we'll be awful. We still have an all star pg, and scorer in Jeff, a lock down defender in AB, and combined with Bass, Sully, and whomever else we have we could be as good as the bucks were last year. Which i am not saying were any good, but made the playoffs.

Well that's the same team we had last year, except we've taken away the defensive big man who makes a top 5 defensive team. If you correlate this to when he was off the floor during games last season, we will be a bottom 5 defensive team. What's worse is we don't have any replacement whatsoever for him.

 We've also taken away our All Star wing scorer in Pierce.
We've added our All Star point guard, but he's not a scoring PG, he's a passing PG who just lost two All Star team mates.
Who does Rondo pass to on the wings for reliable three point shooting now? Jeff Green and Courtney Lee?
Who does he throw lobs to around the basket? Olnyk? Iverson?

They will be fun to watch on the fast break. And their wing defense will be nice and force a few turnover fast break points.
But it stops there.
Rebounding from Sully. Who else?
Shooting from Green and Lee. Who else?
Scoring, maybe 20 ppg from Green, Rondo 15-20 ppg on and off, Wallace is good for 10ppg...Bass maybe 10 ppg? Bradley 10-12? Maybe 10/10 for Sully.

This team makes the 2012-13 Bucks look like a contender.

   Those scoring numbers you listed give the Celts 75-80 ppg out of their top 6 players. That's pretty typical for the nba.

[BballTim]

If we want lottery we either tank or trade Rondo

There is no way that if Rondo plays, that we will be a lotto team

Rondo is not going to singlehandedly make this young and skills-challenged Celtics team a playoff team.  40 something wins is not easy to come by.

Even if Rondo is fully healthy at the start of the season and goes on to have a great season, the defense should prevent enough victories to jump out of the lottery.  With Bass, Sullinger, Olynyk and Melo as the bigs, this team is going to be terrible at defending the rim and paint.

Interior defense is definitely my biggest concern with this team as currently constituted.  The guards and wings--Rondo, Bradley, Green, Wallace--are going to have to help those guys out by putting a lot of pressure on the opposing offenses, and really working hard out near mid-court to make it difficult for the opponents to get into their offense.  And, I'd love to see them being a high turnover producing team. 

I think they'll definitely have to be a pace pushing team if they want any chance of winning 50% of their games.  I see a lot of the dreaded small ball with Green and Wallace at the forward spots and one of the "bigs" in the middle. 

Done right, I think this will be a fun team to watch, and, yes, I think they'll have a shot at being a playoff team.

I actually don't think it's possible to do it right.
We had KG in the paint last year and scraped our way to a .500 season. There's no scenario where Gerald Wallace,Jeff Green, Rondo and Avery Bradley somehow 'help' enough by forcing turnovers enough to stop a teams advantage inside.
That's just on defense.

How do we score any jumpshots with this squad. How do we get 3 point baskets? No Pierce, no Terry. Our two best shooters gone.
How does this team stop combos like:
Dwight/P Gasol
Randolph/M Gasol
Chandler/Stoudemire
Noah/Boozer
Melo/Chandler Hibbert/West
Robin Lopez/Athony Davis
Nick Vucevic/ Glen Davis
Kanter/Favours
Any team with Al Jeff or Millsap.
I could go on all night.

We will be like Chris Paul's Hornets squad without David West and Tyson Chandler- with and upgraded version of Trevor Ariza in Jeff Green. 

Quite possibly utter garbage?

  Maybe. But just out of curiosity, after the first of the year or so our defense was just as good with KG on the bench as it was when he was in the game. How do you account for that? Why will things be so much worse without KG in November than they were in March?

I haven't heard that. Where'd you see that stat?
I'd have to question how healthy Garnett was at the time when he was playing and if his health affected his defensive impact.

I'd have to see if KG got bad and regressed to the team level or if the team improved to KG's level.
I really doubt it's the second option.

Make me a believer.

http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-triangle/post/_/id/56110/life-without-kg-a-defensive-travesty-for-the-celtics

  But as John Schuhmann of NBA.com first noted on Twitter a few weeks back, Garnett’s life-or-death impact on Boston’s D mysteriously vanished upon the return of Avery Bradley. Since Bradley’s January 2 debut, Boston has been almost exactly as good defensively regardless of whether Garnett plays or sits, and they’ve been a bit better offensively, per NBA.com.


  Congratulations, now you're a believer. But why did it happen, and why did what we saw on the court last spring vary so much from your predictions of what we'll see next year?

[Evantime34]

The Celtics should rank in the 20s in defensive efficiency next season.  That alone is enough to push a team out of the playoffs.  But of course that's not all, because I don't see how this team is going to rate highly on offense either.  There is not one primary scorer on this team and I wouldn't put Green in that category without seeing how he looks being defended by small forwards most of the time next season.  He was significantly better on offense against either power forwards or being defended by the lesser wing defender.

Even if this team is mediocre on offense, let's say 17th in offensive efficiency, that coupled with the bad defense, computes out to a bad ball club.

I really didn't know Pierce and Garnett were holding this team back so much or made no difference at all.

Do you think their defensive efficiency will be in the 20's? I think it will be better than that. I think Bradley will play elite defense all season, Green took a leap forward as a defender last year and I expect this to continue growing, Rondo now being "the guy" should be more consistent with his defensive effort.