time to revisit an old idea? celtics- OKC trade idea

[CFAN38]

So listening to espn on the radio this morning, Colin Coherd (spelling?) was talking how multiple sources have told him that the Durant way be growing tired with Westbrook eclipsing him on the shot totals every night. He thinks that Durant has signed with Jay-Z as a way to help the thunder draw player to there team.

Now this got me to thinking. Who says NO to the following trade

Rondo + KG

for

Westbrook and Perk

This trade makes OKC better next year as long as Rondo is healthy. Rondo's health could obviously cloud this deal.

The celtics have to live with Perks contract for 2 years but at least he provides leadership and toughness to a young team. Westbrook is 3 years younger than Rondo and will be a better fir to carry a team. He and AB are a good combo in the back court.

[syfy9]

Celtics should add Bradley/the 16th at least; maybe even incorporate Jeff Green in the trade for Kevin Martin or something.


The Thunder would only accept a Westbrook/Rondo core deal if you flood them with additional assets. I think overall it is a good idea for both teams, though.

[gpap]

Not a bad idea at all.

I think the big factor in all this is the timetable in the returns of both Rondo and Westbrook.

Once that becomes known, I think it would shed a lot more light on how possible this trade would be.

But I do like the idea. I've always liked Westbrook and think he's a dynamic scorer. That's the kind of point guard I like. One that can take over a game by himself.

[lightspeed5]

teams would triple team durant if there wasnt another scoring threat like westbrook on on that team. If rondo's with durant, its even worse because teams would quadruple team durant.

[jambr380]

Celtics should add Bradley/the 16th at least; maybe even incorporate Jeff Green in the trade for Kevin Martin or something.


The Thunder would only accept a Westbrook/Rondo core deal if you flood them with additional assets. I think overall it is a good idea for both teams, though.

Haha, I was thinking the opposite. We are taking Perk off their hands for a championship leader in KG. The difference between Rondo and Westbrook is quite small. The difference in KG and Perk is huge. I would hope they would throw us a first or Lamb, at least.

[slamtheking]

Celtics should add Bradley/the 16th at least; maybe even incorporate Jeff Green in the trade for Kevin Martin or something.


The Thunder would only accept a Westbrook/Rondo core deal if you flood them with additional assets. I think overall it is a good idea for both teams, though.

Haha, I was thinking the opposite. We are taking Perk off their hands for a championship leader in KG. The difference between Rondo and Westbrook is quite small. The difference in KG and Perk is huge. I would hope they would throw us a first or Lamb, at least.

I was thinking along the same line -- OKC should be coughing up more in this deal.  Love Perk but KG is still bey far the better player and I'd take Rondo over Westbrook.  Rondo on that team would get Martin, Durant, Ibaka and KG all functioning as a top of the league offense.

[syfy9]

Celtics should add Bradley/the 16th at least; maybe even incorporate Jeff Green in the trade for Kevin Martin or something.


The Thunder would only accept a Westbrook/Rondo core deal if you flood them with additional assets. I think overall it is a good idea for both teams, though.

Haha, I was thinking the opposite. We are taking Perk off their hands for a championship leader in KG. The difference between Rondo and Westbrook is quite small. The difference in KG and Perk is huge. I would hope they would throw us a first or Lamb, at least.

KG has one or two more years left before he retires.


While it may not be true for Celtics fans, the fans of the other 29 teams hold Westbrook at a much higher regard than Rondo. He's the superstar here - the potential first option on an elite team. Rondo will never be that.

While you can argue that Westbrook is holding Durant back, you can also argue that Durant is holding Westbrook back. If he was traded to the Rockets instead of Harden, everyone would perceive him as a superstar, top 5 talent.

[Moranis]

Celtics should add Bradley/the 16th at least; maybe even incorporate Jeff Green in the trade for Kevin Martin or something.


The Thunder would only accept a Westbrook/Rondo core deal if you flood them with additional assets. I think overall it is a good idea for both teams, though.

Haha, I was thinking the opposite. We are taking Perk off their hands for a championship leader in KG. The difference between Rondo and Westbrook is quite small. The difference in KG and Perk is huge. I would hope they would throw us a first or Lamb, at least.

I was thinking along the same line -- OKC should be coughing up more in this deal.  Love Perk but KG is still bey far the better player and I'd take Rondo over Westbrook.  Rondo on that team would get Martin, Durant, Ibaka and KG all functioning as a top of the league offense.

This is just funny.  Rondo is no where near as good as Westbrook.  Westbrook is a top 10 player in the entire league.  Rondo is barely top 20, if even that.  Couple that with Rondo's very clear locker-room problems and issues in addition to the major knee surgery (as well as a number of other injuries), it is pretty clear that the rest of the league doesn't feel like the clear homers on this site do.  And just so we are clear, Westbrook has been on the 2nd Team All NBA the last three years, Rondo was on the 3rd Team two years ago for his only appearance.  Hard evidence what the rest of the basketball world thinks of them as players.

[slamtheking]

Celtics should add Bradley/the 16th at least; maybe even incorporate Jeff Green in the trade for Kevin Martin or something.


The Thunder would only accept a Westbrook/Rondo core deal if you flood them with additional assets. I think overall it is a good idea for both teams, though.

Haha, I was thinking the opposite. We are taking Perk off their hands for a championship leader in KG. The difference between Rondo and Westbrook is quite small. The difference in KG and Perk is huge. I would hope they would throw us a first or Lamb, at least.

KG has one or two more years left before he retires.


While it may not be true for Celtics fans, the fans of the other 29 teams hold Westbrook at a much higher regard than Rondo. He's the superstar here - the potential first option on an elite team. Rondo will never be that.

While you can argue that Westbrook is holding Durant back, you can also argue that Durant is holding Westbrook back. If he was traded to the Rockets instead of Harden, everyone would perceive him as a superstar, top 5 talent.

Or they'd see him as a ballhogging, shot-happy PG in the Allen Iverson mold.  I'm not being complementary on that comment either

[connor]

Celtics should add Bradley/the 16th at least; maybe even incorporate Jeff Green in the trade for Kevin Martin or something.


The Thunder would only accept a Westbrook/Rondo core deal if you flood them with additional assets. I think overall it is a good idea for both teams, though.

Haha, I was thinking the opposite. We are taking Perk off their hands for a championship leader in KG. The difference between Rondo and Westbrook is quite small. The difference in KG and Perk is huge. I would hope they would throw us a first or Lamb, at least.

KG has one or two more years left before he retires.


While it may not be true for Celtics fans, the fans of the other 29 teams hold Westbrook at a much higher regard than Rondo. He's the superstar here - the potential first option on an elite team. Rondo will never be that.

While you can argue that Westbrook is holding Durant back, you can also argue that Durant is holding Westbrook back. If he was traded to the Rockets instead of Harden, everyone would perceive him as a superstar, top 5 talent.

KG only has one or two more years left in him but he is a HUGE upgrade over Perk. Perk's contract is awful. With KG they get a major upgrade and then when he does come off the books they can chase a center that will still most likely be much better than Perk. That is a major win for them.

I agree that most of the league think Westbrook is better than Rondo, but I don't think it's by how much you are suggesting. Westbrook is a superstar, but he is also a ball dominant scorer. Rondo is arguably a superstar (at least he is up there) and a ball dominant facilitator, which is a better fit with KD. That raises his relative value to the Thunder. Westbrook is the better player, but you have to consider fit as well (some will argue that Westbrook is as good/better fit than Rondo, but in my opinion thats not the case).

The talent upgrade of KG over Perk is FAR greater than that of Westbrook over Rondo and given that Rondo's style fits better with KD that gap between the two gets even smaller.

I'd say Lamb at the very least should be included or the 12th pick this year or Orton and swapping firsts this year.

[Celtics18]

Celtics should add Bradley/the 16th at least; maybe even incorporate Jeff Green in the trade for Kevin Martin or something.


The Thunder would only accept a Westbrook/Rondo core deal if you flood them with additional assets. I think overall it is a good idea for both teams, though.

Haha, I was thinking the opposite. We are taking Perk off their hands for a championship leader in KG. The difference between Rondo and Westbrook is quite small. The difference in KG and Perk is huge. I would hope they would throw us a first or Lamb, at least.

I was thinking along the same line -- OKC should be coughing up more in this deal.  Love Perk but KG is still bey far the better player and I'd take Rondo over Westbrook.  Rondo on that team would get Martin, Durant, Ibaka and KG all functioning as a top of the league offense.

This is just funny.  Rondo is no where near as good as Westbrook.  Westbrook is a top 10 player in the entire league.  Rondo is barely top 20, if even that.  Couple that with Rondo's very clear locker-room problems and issues in addition to the major knee surgery (as well as a number of other injuries), it is pretty clear that the rest of the league doesn't feel like the clear homers on this site do.  And just so we are clear, Westbrook has been on the 2nd Team All NBA the last three years, Rondo was on the 3rd Team two years ago for his only appearance.  Hard evidence what the rest of the basketball world thinks of them as players.

Despite your hard evidence of Westbrook outdoing Rondo on the All NBA teams, Rondo got more MVP votes in both 2011 and 2012. 

The "very clear locker-room problems" tag is complete nonsense.  His coaches and teammates all speak highly of him.   Members of the media seem to like to bash him quite a bit.  That's probably because they don't like the sometimes surly and standoffish stance that he takes with them.  I couldn't care less about that.  The kid's a winner and a warrior who cares deeply about the game and about winning.  I don't need him to be all shiny and cuddly with the cameras. 

They are both coming off knee surgery so you will have a hard time selling that as an advantage to Westbrook. 

You'll need some more of that "hard evidence" for your case to stick.  Your evidence is actually fairly soft.   

[syfy9]

You guys are really low-balling Westbrook.

If he had his own team, he'd be thought so much more differently. He's Allen Iverson - but stronger, maybe even quicker, and more heart. This guy is really good.

So what if he's a ball dominant scorer? Jordan was, Magic was, Isiah was, Kobe was, every other dominant HOF caliber player was. Normally dominant HOF caliber players aren't second options on teams. It's actually a good trait to be ball-hoggy if you are a number 1 option (which he is, and plays like), instead of being passive (Lebron,etc). Note that he's not only a dominant scorer, but also great passer. He gets assists. Westbrook also cares - a lot. He is known to scream on the court and show his emotion. Emotion is infectious, and his heart and will to win is just as potent as the next guy.

Westbrook would be getting more MVP votes than Rondo if he was on a different team. You can't really be the most valuable player if you have Durant on your team. His numbers would inflate and he would have an upper hand against this popularity contest.


If the Thunder really thought that Rondo was so much of a better fit for them than Westbrook, this trade would've already happened. They didn't because they knew that Westbrook was so much better talent wise. He's also younger and bigger and taller and stronger. The Thunder barely considered a Westbrook/Rondo deal, if they even did. There's a reason.

[fantankerous]

You guys are really low-balling Westbrook.

If he had his own team, he'd be thought so much more differently. He's Allen Iverson - but stronger, maybe even quicker, and more heart. This guy is really good.

So what if he's a ball dominant scorer? Jordan was, Magic was, Isiah was, Kobe was, every other dominant HOF caliber player was. Normally dominant HOF caliber players aren't second options on teams. It's actually a good trait to be ball-hoggy if you are a number 1 option (which he is, and plays like), instead of being passive (Lebron,etc). Note that he's not only a dominant scorer, but also great passer. He gets assists. Westbrook also cares - a lot. He is known to scream on the court and show his emotion. Emotion is infectious, and his heart and will to win is just as potent as the next guy.

Westbrook would be getting more MVP votes than Rondo if he was on a different team. You can't really be the most valuable player if you have Durant on your team. His numbers would inflate and he would have an upper hand against this popularity contest.


If the Thunder really thought that Rondo was so much of a better fit for them than Westbrook, this trade would've already happened. They didn't because they knew that Westbrook was so much better talent wise. He's also younger and bigger and taller and stronger. The Thunder barely considered a Westbrook/Rondo deal, if they even did. There's a reason.

I agree.  The player evaluation skills of many posters on this site is pathetically low.  Unfortunately, OKC's front office isn't staffed by CB posters so they'd never agree to this trade.

[connor]

You guys are really low-balling Westbrook.

If he had his own team, he'd be thought so much more differently. He's Allen Iverson - but stronger, maybe even quicker, and more heart. This guy is really good.

So what if he's a ball dominant scorer? Jordan was, Magic was, Isiah was, Kobe was, every other dominant HOF caliber player was. Normally dominant HOF caliber players aren't second options on teams. It's actually a good trait to be ball-hoggy if you are a number 1 option (which he is, and plays like), instead of being passive (Lebron,etc). Note that he's not only a dominant scorer, but also great passer. He gets assists. Westbrook also cares - a lot. He is known to scream on the court and show his emotion. Emotion is infectious, and his heart and will to win is just as potent as the next guy.

Westbrook would be getting more MVP votes than Rondo if he was on a different team. You can't really be the most valuable player if you have Durant on your team. His numbers would inflate and he would have an upper hand against this popularity contest.


If the Thunder really thought that Rondo was so much of a better fit for them than Westbrook, this trade would've already happened. They didn't because they knew that Westbrook was so much better talent wise. He's also younger and bigger and taller and stronger. The Thunder barely considered a Westbrook/Rondo deal, if they even did. There's a reason.

You're ignoring the entire other half of the trade though. It's not that I'm trying to low-ball Westbrook, he is better than Rondo in my opinion and if it was just Rondo straight up for Westbrook they'd definitely say no.

But Rondo and KG added to Durant makes them so much better than they currently stand with Westbrook and Perkins. I'd have them as my favorites out West.

They're giving up more because they receive a major improvement immediately for a year or two and then they have the ability to go out and find their successor center. It's a win now move.

They'd have to include Lamb or their 12th pick just to move Perkins contract for a halfway decent big man. They're not going to find a better player than KG out there without selling the whole farm.

[Celtics18]

You guys are really low-balling Westbrook.

If he had his own team, he'd be thought so much more differently. He's Allen Iverson - but stronger, maybe even quicker, and more heart. This guy is really good.

So what if he's a ball dominant scorer? Jordan was, Magic was, Isiah was, Kobe was, every other dominant HOF caliber player was. Normally dominant HOF caliber players aren't second options on teams. It's actually a good trait to be ball-hoggy if you are a number 1 option (which he is, and plays like), instead of being passive (Lebron,etc). Note that he's not only a dominant scorer, but also great passer. He gets assists. Westbrook also cares - a lot. He is known to scream on the court and show his emotion. Emotion is infectious, and his heart and will to win is just as potent as the next guy.

Westbrook would be getting more MVP votes than Rondo if he was on a different team. You can't really be the most valuable player if you have Durant on your team. His numbers would inflate and he would have an upper hand against this popularity contest.


If the Thunder really thought that Rondo was so much of a better fit for them than Westbrook, this trade would've already happened. They didn't because they knew that Westbrook was so much better talent wise. He's also younger and bigger and taller and stronger. The Thunder barely considered a Westbrook/Rondo deal, if they even did. There's a reason.

I agree with a lot of what you say about Westbrook.  I'm not going to quibble over the minor disagreements that I have.  My point is not to low-ball Westbrook.  I think he's an elite player. 

My point is that Rondo is an elite player, as well. 

I do want to quibble with the bolded part of your comments, though.  The argument against Rondo for years has been that the only reason that he's as good as he is is because he plays with three future hall of famers.  I can't be sure, but I'm guessing you've probably made that argument yourself. 

Ironically, you are turning that kind of logic around, and, basically saying that Kevin Durant is holding Russell Westbrook back from being all he can be.  Your really think he'd be an MVP candidate if he was the leader of an Oklahoma City roster sans Kevin Durant?  Of course he wouldn't, the team wouldn't be good enough for him to get any consideration.