How many years until we make the playoffs again?

[D.o.s.]

I think you're underestimating how bad we'll be with Rondo sitting out with the ACL injury and KG/Pierce playing for contenders.

The Celtics have a willingness to be terrible this season.  It's pretty obvious.  I just wonder how long it will take until we dig out of the trenches.

Before the Clippers reached out to the Celtics on Sunday morning, Rivers had informed Boston general manager Danny Ainge that he planned to return for the 2013-14 season as coach, a source told Y! Sports. Rivers had been balking at returning to the Celtics out of disillusionment over having to preside over a rebuilding process. In the end, though, Boston was glad to shed the $21 million owed to Rivers over the next three years, clearing the way for them to hire a less-expensive coach with the organization no longer in championship contention mode.

In other words... Boston's in tank mode and Rivers wasn't too keen on presiding over a tank job.  This way, Rivers not only gets paid bank, but gets to continue increasing his prestige by coaching a playoff team.  In Boston, he wouldn't have been coaching a playoff team... just would have been making bank.

Right, but my suspicion is we can be out-terribled by enough teams, especially in the east, that we'll be procluded from a top-5 pick.

Even in full tank mode, I can see us having better records than the Raptors, Magic, Suns, Kings, Sixers (assuming no Bynum), and Bucks (if all three of their guards bail).

edit-Forgot the Bobcats, and the Pelicans.

[bfrombleacher]

Pretty sure Ryan Gomes wasn't going to make a world of difference.

Not getting the 2nd pick is also kind of a counterpoint to "tanksters".

[LarBrd33]

If we get the right pieces this summer, we'll make the playoffs next season.

But definitely won't be winning another championship for another projected...4 or 6 years?

Honestly I could see us making the playoffs in 2014-15.

We're losing KG and Pierce this offseason.  Let Rondo come back slowly from the injury.  Develop Sully, Bradley, the #16, etc (two 2nd rounders from Cleveland we get for Pierce, for instance?) ...

Then if you bottom out and have a shot at a top pick, worst case scenario we probably have a top 10 pick in 2014.  Lots of assets to flip for vets, presumably cap room and perhaps even a trade exception from the Pierce trade... Plus a healthy Rondo.  You could see the team back in the playoffs

[BballTim]

Celtics will make the playoffs next season.

That would be a nightmare.

  Certainly not compared to your plan. I think there's a pretty good chance we make the playoffs this year as well.

  All your plans seem to include "let's just get bad and get Wiggins". That's kind of like saying "let's just clear some cap space and sign a franchise player". There's no need to rush into the plan of last resort and not much benefit from rushing into it either.

No Timmy.

I, like Ainge (I assume), think that if you tank... your best case scenario is landing a franchise player.  Your wost case scenario is a top 5 pick that you either use to add a building block... or a key asset towards a trade.   This approach worked very well for Ainge in 2007.  It's a great way to build the foundation for a franchise. 

Good news is, Ainge apparently agrees.  He's going to dump Pierce and KG for draft picks and cap space... he devised a scheme to have Doc go to a contender since Doc doesn't want to spend his time babysitting a 25 win team and Boston doesn't want to pay millions to a guy babysitting a 25 win team.  The question is... how many years do you think it will take Ainge to field a competitive team again?  4 years like last time?

 Ok Brdy. Teams get top 5 picks every year, most of those teams don't become contenders based on those top 5 picks. I'm sure Danny realizes how unlikely your plan is to be successful and isn't throwing the towel in yet. I don't think that trading PP is necessarily a sign he's planning on blowing it up and his effort to trade KG was for another center, which isn't necessarily a tank move.

[LarBrd33]

Pretty sure Ryan Gomes wasn't going to make a world of difference.

Not getting the 2nd pick is also kind of a counterpoint to "tanksters".

If you watched the team that year you'd understand the context.  We were playing guys like Gerald who could put up stats, but wouldn't actually help us win.  When games got late, we wouldn't "go for the win" by putting in players who knew what they were doing... we'd just ride the young guys with the excuse of "developing" them.  It was a subtle tank.  We also told PIerce to stay home even though he was technically healthy enough to play.  We ABSOLUTELY tanked in 2007.  No question.

FYI, even before that I had seen our coach play the part of "company man" by showcasing players.  The year we played Mark Blount heavy minutes prior to his trade was a perfect example.  All of us fans wanted more minutes for Perk, but we kept feeding more and more minutes to Blount.  It was evident we were showcasing him for a trade... and we were... and we did.

That's the kind of stuff "presiding over a rebuilding team" entails.  It's about playing the part of company man and doing what's for the greater good of the franchise.  but it kills your prestige as a coach, because ignorant fans assume you're a hack who doesn't know what he's doing.  They fail to see the big picture.  They just see the losses piling up.  Our next coach will be some unknown who just wants the reps as "head coach" and doesn't care about leading a 25 win squad.

[LarBrd33]

Celtics will make the playoffs next season.

That would be a nightmare.

  Certainly not compared to your plan. I think there's a pretty good chance we make the playoffs this year as well.

  All your plans seem to include "let's just get bad and get Wiggins". That's kind of like saying "let's just clear some cap space and sign a franchise player". There's no need to rush into the plan of last resort and not much benefit from rushing into it either.

No Timmy.

I, like Ainge (I assume), think that if you tank... your best case scenario is landing a franchise player.  Your wost case scenario is a top 5 pick that you either use to add a building block... or a key asset towards a trade.   This approach worked very well for Ainge in 2007.  It's a great way to build the foundation for a franchise. 

Good news is, Ainge apparently agrees.  He's going to dump Pierce and KG for draft picks and cap space... he devised a scheme to have Doc go to a contender since Doc doesn't want to spend his time babysitting a 25 win team and Boston doesn't want to pay millions to a guy babysitting a 25 win team.  The question is... how many years do you think it will take Ainge to field a competitive team again?  4 years like last time?

 Ok Brdy. Teams get top 5 picks every year, most of those teams don't become contenders based on those top 5 picks. I'm sure Danny realizes how unlikely your plan is to be successful and isn't throwing the towel in yet. I don't think that trading PP is necessarily a sign he's planning on blowing it up and his effort to trade KG was for another center, which isn't necessarily a tank move.

The effort to trade for DeAndre wasn't based on DeAndre's skill set... it was based on the fact that KG had a list of one team he'd accept a trade to and DeAndre was the only young player with a matching salary.  High probability we'd just flip DeAndre at the soonest possible moment.  Like as some suggested... to Portland for their draft pick since Portland needs a center.   That wasn't a trade made with the intention of "keeping us competitive"... it was a trade intended to acquire assets for the lengthy rebuild. 

However, if you listen to Bill Simmons, he thinks that we'd be screwed if we had traded for DeAndre as a trade asset:

Last point: DeAndre Jordan isn't an asset. He's badly overpaid. I'd rather have KG for 2 more years. He has trade value, DeAndre doesn't.

So... maybe the NBA blocking that deal will be a blessing and KG will give us a longer list of teams.  If we could get a late 1st rounder and trade exception for KG, I bet Danny would be thrilled. 

Winter isn't coming... it's here.  Get ready... the next couple months is going to be rough.

[kgainez]

Celtics will make the playoffs next season.

That would be a nightmare.

because it went so well this year

i think we'll make playoffs this year.
i also think it's a bit early to be making decisions. it's end of june. lots of dealing left to do. I just don't think DA and Wyc are gonna go for a 4 year tanking/awful plan.

[LarBrd33]

Celtics will make the playoffs next season.

That would be a nightmare.

because it went so well this year

i think we'll make playoffs this year.
i also think it's a bit early to be making decisions. it's end of june. lots of dealing left to do. I just don't think DA and Wyc are gonna go for a 4 year tanking/awful plan.

Exactly... 41 wins (WITH Kg and Pierce) and a beating by the Knicks in the 1st round wasn't my idea of a fun season.   If we limp into the playoffs next year with scraps, that's going to be frustrating.  Much rather would tank with hope of landing some building blocks.  I'm sure Celtic management would too.

[BballTim]

Why?  Last time we won a title and built a contender it was due to Boston literally throwing games... benching players like Gomes late and force-feeding minutes to players like Gerald Green.  It was a blatant tank-job.  Best case scenario we would have gotten Kevin Durant (who Danny coveted) ... Worst case scenario you end up getting the #5 pick... and we know what Danny was able to do with that worst-case scenario.

  Saying we were tanking by not playing Gomes enough is like saying next year's team would be tanking if they didn't play Jordan Crawford big minutes. If you're looking for evidence that they were tanking look at players that would have led us to wins being held out, like PP or Al or Rondo.

  It's true that the team ended up tanking that year but that wasn't the plan, that was just what they were left with after losing PP (and, to a lesser extent, TA) killed their season. If those two were healthy we'd have likely made the playoffs that year.

[BballTim]

Celtics will make the playoffs next season.

That would be a nightmare.

  Certainly not compared to your plan. I think there's a pretty good chance we make the playoffs this year as well.

  All your plans seem to include "let's just get bad and get Wiggins". That's kind of like saying "let's just clear some cap space and sign a franchise player". There's no need to rush into the plan of last resort and not much benefit from rushing into it either.

No Timmy.

I, like Ainge (I assume), think that if you tank... your best case scenario is landing a franchise player.  Your wost case scenario is a top 5 pick that you either use to add a building block... or a key asset towards a trade.   This approach worked very well for Ainge in 2007.  It's a great way to build the foundation for a franchise. 

Good news is, Ainge apparently agrees.  He's going to dump Pierce and KG for draft picks and cap space... he devised a scheme to have Doc go to a contender since Doc doesn't want to spend his time babysitting a 25 win team and Boston doesn't want to pay millions to a guy babysitting a 25 win team.  The question is... how many years do you think it will take Ainge to field a competitive team again?  4 years like last time?

 Ok Brdy. Teams get top 5 picks every year, most of those teams don't become contenders based on those top 5 picks. I'm sure Danny realizes how unlikely your plan is to be successful and isn't throwing the towel in yet. I don't think that trading PP is necessarily a sign he's planning on blowing it up and his effort to trade KG was for another center, which isn't necessarily a tank move.

The effort to trade for DeAndre wasn't based on DeAndre's skill set... it was based on the fact that KG had a list of one team he'd accept a trade to and DeAndre was the only young player with a matching salary.  High probability we'd just flip DeAndre at the soonest possible moment.  Like as some suggested... to Portland for their draft pick since Portland needs a center.   That wasn't a trade made with the intention of "keeping us competitive"... it was a trade intended to acquire assets for the lengthy rebuild. 

However, if you listen to Bill Simmons, he thinks that we'd be screwed if we had traded for DeAndre as a trade asset:

Last point: DeAndre Jordan isn't an asset. He's badly overpaid. I'd rather have KG for 2 more years. He has trade value, DeAndre doesn't.

So... maybe the NBA blocking that deal will be a blessing and KG will give us a longer list of teams.  If we could get a late 1st rounder and trade exception for KG, I bet Danny would be thrilled. 

Winter isn't coming... it's here.  Get ready... the next couple months is going to be rough.

  I don't pay much attention to Simmons. And your claim that they were going to flip Jordan is based solely on the fact that it fits your overall claim, not on any evidence whatsoever.

[LarBrd33]

Why?  Last time we won a title and built a contender it was due to Boston literally throwing games... benching players like Gomes late and force-feeding minutes to players like Gerald Green.  It was a blatant tank-job.  Best case scenario we would have gotten Kevin Durant (who Danny coveted) ... Worst case scenario you end up getting the #5 pick... and we know what Danny was able to do with that worst-case scenario.

  Saying we were tanking by not playing Gomes enough is like saying next year's team would be tanking if they didn't play Jordan Crawford big minutes.

Tim... are you a pretty recent fan of the Celtics?  Are you familiar with Ryan Gomes?  It was a pretty big deal at the time for us Celtic fans.  Gomes was one of the only players on that team with any semblance of basketball IQ.  The guy was a worker... 4 years of college ball and actually knew what he was doing.  They asked him after one particular loss why he wasn't playing down the stretch and I'm paraphrasing, but he essentially admitted that the reason he didn't play was because winning was a priority.  He admitted to the team tanking.  Google it.  It happened.  It's the only reason I mention Gomes. 

[LarBrd33]

Why?  Last time we won a title and built a contender it was due to Boston literally throwing games... benching players like Gomes late and force-feeding minutes to players like Gerald Green.  It was a blatant tank-job.  Best case scenario we would have gotten Kevin Durant (who Danny coveted) ... Worst case scenario you end up getting the #5 pick... and we know what Danny was able to do with that worst-case scenario.

  Saying we were tanking by not playing Gomes enough is like saying next year's team would be tanking if they didn't play Jordan Crawford big minutes.

Tim... are you a pretty recent fan of the Celtics?  Are you familiar with Ryan Gomes?  It was a pretty big deal at the time for us Celtic fans.  Gomes was one of the only players on that team with any semblance of basketball IQ.  The guy was a worker... 4 years of college ball and actually knew what he was doing.  They asked him after one particular loss why he wasn't playing down the stretch and I'm paraphrasing, but he essentially admitted that the reason he didn't play was because winning was a priority.  He admitted to the team tanking.  Google it.  It happened.  It's the only reason I mention Gomes.

Here you go.  Were you around for this or did you just become a Celtic fan recently?

http://www.celticsblog.com/2007/4/14/642364/tanks-for-the-memories

"I probably (would have played), but since we were in the hunt for a high draft pick, of course things are different," Gomes said. "I understand that. Hopefully things get better. Now that we clinched at least having the second-most balls in the lottery, the last three games we'll see what happens. We'll see if we can go out and finish some games."

[kgainez]

Celtics will make the playoffs next season.

That would be a nightmare.

because it went so well this year

i think we'll make playoffs this year.
i also think it's a bit early to be making decisions. it's end of june. lots of dealing left to do. I just don't think DA and Wyc are gonna go for a 4 year tanking/awful plan.

Exactly... 41 wins (WITH Kg and Pierce) and a beating by the Knicks in the 1st round wasn't my idea of a fun season.   If we limp into the playoffs next year with scraps, that's going to be frustrating.  Much rather would tank with hope of landing some building blocks.  I'm sure Celtic management would too.

Do you realize the only moved we've made thus far is getting rid of our coach?
Even if we give up PP, we still have to see what we get and what we turn it into.
I just feel like it's way too early to make a decision based off what's happened thus far.

As far as I'm concerned, we aren't tanking but going young. Getting rid of Doc/KG/PP allows this to be a REALLY young team where you don't have to pay tons of money to guys who should probably be (important) role players right now.

A rebuild and tanking is not synonymous to me. As a proponent of the youth movement, I'm eagerly looking forward to what else we can get. For example, we can let KG retire, get those picks for PP from CLE and maybe trade a couple other guys...maybe a package centered around JET.

This gives us picks AND cap space. We can sign and trade some guys that could be helpful like a Josh Smith or Paul Millsap or a young shooter. Or, because we'll have like 30 mil off the books, we can just straight up sign some guys.

I expect us to go cheap on a coach because, even if we have a great lineup of guys, we're unsure if we're a contender yet. DA isn't stupid. He's not going to give a team to Rondo and whomever else and say I'll get a useful, expensive coach for you guys. They have to prove it first. We get a cheap coach on a short contract.

I think the name of the game this season is flexibility. I think many more rooms will be made by end of July, where we'll have to step back and decide what to do from there.

[wahz]

If this really is a full on tank job, then you trade PP and KG for the best you can get and then you keep Rondo out until after January. That would certainly do it. Take phone calls on everyone else too. But the point is you keep Rajon out. I don't doubt we win less than 30. That should be a top 5.

[BballTim]

Why?  Last time we won a title and built a contender it was due to Boston literally throwing games... benching players like Gomes late and force-feeding minutes to players like Gerald Green.  It was a blatant tank-job.  Best case scenario we would have gotten Kevin Durant (who Danny coveted) ... Worst case scenario you end up getting the #5 pick... and we know what Danny was able to do with that worst-case scenario.

  Saying we were tanking by not playing Gomes enough is like saying next year's team would be tanking if they didn't play Jordan Crawford big minutes.

Tim... are you a pretty recent fan of the Celtics?  Are you familiar with Ryan Gomes?  It was a pretty big deal at the time for us Celtic fans.  Gomes was one of the only players on that team with any semblance of basketball IQ.  The guy was a worker... 4 years of college ball and actually knew what he was doing.  They asked him after one particular loss why he wasn't playing down the stretch and I'm paraphrasing, but he essentially admitted that the reason he didn't play was because winning was a priority.  He admitted to the team tanking.  Google it.  It happened.  It's the only reason I mention Gomes.

  Quite frankly I've always thought that you started following the Celts when the Sonics bolted, and Ray and KG (your faves) joined the team. But I suppose that if you were following the Celts at the time it makes sense that you were high on Gomes, whose upside was pretty much to be a Delonte West level of player. I can recall arguing with people who were big Gomes fans who claimed that Al Jefferson would never be good enough to beat Ryan out for the starting pf spot. I wouldn't be surprised if you were one of those people.

  Shorter answer? I was following the Celts well before Gomes showed up, I know exactly who he is, I saw most of his games on the Celts and wasn't at all surprised by his career trajectory. He was a decent but not at all spectacular player who wasn't going to win us many games at all. I'm sure he felt not playing him more led to losses and apparently some of the fans agreed but it wasn't really the case.