I think LeBron James is now over Michael Jordan

[Boris Badenov]

We'll see if Lebron ends up with six titles, even without taking off two years in his prime.

Yeah, we can talk then. Classic "getting caught in the moment" situation right now.

Funny to think that if one play in game 6 had gone the other way - any one of many different plays, really, many not involving Lebron at all - we'd be talking about how Lebron can't win the big one, etc. It's like how Brady is a couple of plays away from being 5-0, but instead hasn't won a ring in ten years.

I will say that looking at Lebron's season as whole this year, it's hard not to be impressed. It wasn't just his statistical dominance, but more the way he seemed to have that "feel" for what the game needed - getting his teammates involved vs. taking over, offensive vs. defensive effort, etc.

I haven't seen too many other players with that ability to adapt to the situation. Bird and Magic spring to mind, of course.

I'm certainly not ready to call Lebron the equal of those players yet, much less of Jordan. Jordan at his peak had an air of invincibility that I have not seen one other player match, ever, at least since I really started watching the game in the early 1980s.

[nickagneta]

It might be possible that Lebron is now over Michael Jordan in the manner in which league officials favor him and turn a blind eye to his offensive fouls, his obvious flopping moves, his traveling violations, and his body contact on blocks every single game.

It might be possible that Lebron is now over Michael Jordan in the size of his ego. Or maybe not. But its close.

It might be possible that Lebron is over Michael Jordan in how much better he is than every other player that he now has to play against versus how much better Jordan was over the second best player in any year he played in.

But IMHO its not possible for Lebron to be over Jordan as to who was or is the better player.

[ManUp]

If the thread title is true.

I think you don't know much about basketball.

I mean that in the nicest way possible.

[Roy H.]

It might be possible that Lebron is now over Michael Jordan in the size of his ego. Or maybe not. But its close.

Haha.  MJ didn't call himself "King" or "The Chosen One", so I think Lebron has him trumped.

It might be possible that Lebron is over Michael Jordan in how much better he is than every other player that he now has to play against versus how much better Jordan was over the second best player in any year he played in.

This is an interesting question.  MJ played against a lot of great players in his prime.  Magic and Larry early in his career, all-timers like Hakeem, Robinson, Ewing, Barkley etc. later.

Is the gap between Lebron and Durant bigger than the gap between MJ and Hakeem?  Probably it is right now.

[nickagneta]

This is an interesting question.  MJ played against a lot of great players in his prime.  Magic and Larry early in his career, all-timers like Hakeem, Robinson, Ewing, Barkley etc. later.

Is the gap between Lebron and Durant bigger than the gap between MJ and Hakeem?  Probably it is right now.

Something to consider. Was Pippen ever the second best player in the league any year that Jordan played?

[CeltsPride]

One thing--since LeBron came straight out of high school while Jordan played college ball, wouldn't it make sense to compare their playing careers, rather than their ages?

So you'd be looking at 31 year old Jordan's resume--his 10th year in the league, not 28 year old Jordan.

Which would make it:

Jordan 85-95:
3 Championships, 3 time Finals MVP, Six scoring titles, 3-time Steals leader, 1 DPOY, Six first team All-NBA, 5 All Defense, Rookie of the Year, 2 time Slam Dunk Champion, 4 time MVP, Eight time All Star, 3 Time Finals MVP, Rookie of the Year.

LeBron 03-13:
2 Championships, 2 time Finals MVP, 4 MVP, Rookie of the Year, 9 time All Star, 7 first team All-NBA, 5 All Defense, 1 scoring title.

Anyone with common sense knows you can't compare the 2 based on years in the league. By doing that you are giving Jordan 3 years in his absolute prime (late 20s / early 30s) against lebron as a teenager. Jordan wasn't going to be winning titles at 18-21 so let's stop pretending he was. The only way to compare the 2 is by age and lebron has been every bit Jordan's equal if not better.

[Surferdad]

We'll see if Lebron ends up with six titles, even without taking off two years in his prime.

Yeah, we can talk then. Classic "getting caught in the moment" situation right now.

Funny to think that if one play in game 6 had gone the other way - any one of many different plays, really, many not involving Lebron at all - we'd be talking about how Lebron can't win the big one, etc. It's like how Brady is a couple of plays away from being 5-0, but instead hasn't won a ring in ten years.

I will say that looking at Lebron's season as whole this year, it's hard not to be impressed. It wasn't just his statistical dominance, but more the way he seemed to have that "feel" for what the game needed - getting his teammates involved vs. taking over, offensive vs. defensive effort, etc.

I haven't seen too many other players with that ability to adapt to the situation. Bird and Magic spring to mind, of course.

I'm certainly not ready to call Lebron the equal of those players yet, much less of Jordan. Jordan at his peak had an air of invincibility that I have not seen one other player match, ever, at least since I really started watching the game in the early 1980s.

TP for you.  This is just what I was thinking watching the last 6 minutes last night.  SAS gave him jumpshots, so he took jumpshots and generally made them.  I remember earlier in his career when that strategy could work, but LBJ has improved as a jumpshooter, so now he is basically unguardable.

[CelticConcourse]

http://instagram.com/p/a1qDuViTBw/

This guy? 

[moiso]

Michael did not win until he got a marquee coach in Phil Jackson. LeBron has won with Erik Spoelstra.

That is cinches it for me. LeBron over MJ.

Phil Jackson was a nobody when he took over the Bulls.  He wasn't a marquee coach at that time.  And likewise, you can't know what Spoelstra's career is going to look like when he's done.

[D.o.s.]

One thing--since LeBron came straight out of high school while Jordan played college ball, wouldn't it make sense to compare their playing careers, rather than their ages?

So you'd be looking at 31 year old Jordan's resume--his 10th year in the league, not 28 year old Jordan.

Which would make it:

Jordan 85-95:
3 Championships, 3 time Finals MVP, Six scoring titles, 3-time Steals leader, 1 DPOY, Six first team All-NBA, 5 All Defense, Rookie of the Year, 2 time Slam Dunk Champion, 4 time MVP, Eight time All Star, 3 Time Finals MVP, Rookie of the Year.

LeBron 03-13:
2 Championships, 2 time Finals MVP, 4 MVP, Rookie of the Year, 9 time All Star, 7 first team All-NBA, 5 All Defense, 1 scoring title.

Anyone with common sense knows you can't compare the 2 based on years in the league. By doing that you are giving Jordan 3 years in his absolute prime (late 20s / early 30s) against lebron as a teenager. Jordan wasn't going to be winning titles at 18-21 so let's stop pretending he was. The only way to compare the 2 is by age and lebron has been every bit Jordan's equal if not better.

If we were talking about athletic ability, I'd agree with you in the opposite fashion--there is not a person alive that doesn't have a higher athletic ceiling at 28 than they do at 31, so you could say that Jordan missed out on three years of his prime "wasting away" in college.

As to your actual post, that says that we can't measure two players based on how many years they played in the same league against equivalent levels of competition (an important distinction when you compare players--trying to make as many variables equal) because it would mean that Jordan was a better player (which, you know, he was)...

[albas89]

http://instagram.com/p/a1qDuViTBw/

This guy? 

Seriously, his obssession against his haters is not healthy... you're the best player in the world, a millionaire and what not and only thing you care about is win as many accolades as possible just to shut those haters up?? pathetic...

First thing he had to say after being awarded the FMVP trophy was "Hate Now"... seriously LeBron??

[Sketch5]

Michael did not win until he got a marquee coach in Phil Jackson. LeBron has won with Erik Spoelstra.

That is cinches it for me. LeBron over MJ.

Yeah because Pat Riley had nothing to do with helping Spoelstra coach, or using any of Riley's tactics and plays...

[MVPPierceNoJoke]

http://instagram.com/p/a1qDuViTBw/

This guy? 

Its hard for me to take him seriously after some of the things he does.

[Kane3387]

I mean obviously that's nonsense.  Jordan won 6 titles and was dominant.  We have to see how the rest of LeBron's career pans out.

That said... compare their resumes at age 28.  Do it.  LeBron with his 4 MVPs, 4 titles appearances, 2 titles... it compares favorably.

If someone were to tell me they'd rather have 28 year old LeBron over 28 year old JOrdan... I wouldn't fault them for it.

Fwiw, Kobe's resume at age 28 was pretty darn impressive too... but he was carried by Shaq.  LeBron is carrying his sidekicks.

MJ had to wait for Bird and Magic to basically move over. I guess Isaiah's teams too. LeBron basically folded against Howard, Rondo, and Dirk...

[CeltsPride]

http://instagram.com/p/a1qDuViTBw/

This guy? 

Seriously, his obssession against his haters is not healthy... you're the best player in the world, a millionaire and what not and only thing you care about is win as many accolades as possible just to shut those haters up?? pathetic...

First thing he had to say after being awarded the FMVP trophy was "Hate Now"... seriously LeBron??

Most criticized athlete in the history of the world who once again proved his doubters wrong and he's not allowed to say "I told you so"