Author Topic: Ainge and Doc Press Conference (Postponed till Monday)  (Read 14703 times)

0 Members and 0 Guests are viewing this topic.

Re: Ainge and Doc Press Conference (Postponed till Monday)
« Reply #75 on: June 21, 2013, 01:57:03 PM »

Offline BleedGreen1989

  • Rajon Rondo
  • *****
  • Posts: 5561
  • Tommy Points: 568
2015 Protected 1st, huh?  That offer is an insult to Doc, Danny *and* Chris Paul.

Danny should just reschedule the press conference for 5 pm this afternoon and say whatever he was going to say this morning.

Yeah I'm not quite sure what you expect Doc to fetch. Pat Riley got a 1st rounder I believe and SVG got two 2nd rounders or something.

The pick doesn't sound very heavily protected anyways.
*CB Miami Heat*
Kyle Lowry, Dwayne Wade, 13th pick in even numbered rounds, 18th pick in odd numbered rounds.

Re: Ainge and Doc Press Conference (Postponed till Monday)
« Reply #76 on: June 21, 2013, 01:59:54 PM »

Offline CT32

  • Lonnie Walker IV
  • Posts: 51
  • Tommy Points: 1
2015 Protected 1st, huh?  That offer is an insult to Doc, Danny *and* Chris Paul.

Danny should just reschedule the press conference for 5 pm this afternoon and say whatever he was going to say this morning.

Yeah I'm not quite sure what you expect Doc to fetch. Pat Riley got a 1st rounder I believe and SVG got two 2nd rounders or something.

The pick doesn't sound very heavily protected anyways.

people think they can get the world for Doc...

anyways, here's an interesting article for all of you who think the clippers are evil, and prolonging this and bla bla bla. seems ainge approached rivers about coaching for the clipps first http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/228269/Source-Ainge-First-Approached-Rivers-With-Clippers-Trade-Scenario

Re: Ainge and Doc Press Conference (Postponed till Monday)
« Reply #77 on: June 21, 2013, 02:03:16 PM »

Offline PhoSita

  • NCE
  • Robert Parish
  • *********************
  • Posts: 21835
  • Tommy Points: 2182
@markheisler:

Quote
Celtics just cancelled press conference w/o explanation. Clipper source says they'll up offer.

does that mean two 1st rd picks ?

Mark Heisler ‏@MarkHeisler 14m

Quote
Oops…I was told #Clippers offering #Celtics '2015 No. 1 protected.' Could be top 3 protected or top 10. Doesn't have to be lottery-protected

I'm fine with top 3 protection as long as we can still get the pick later.  E.g. if it's top 3 it rolls over until the next year.

Definitely not accepting a deal where the 1st rounder is protected and we don't get any pick at all if it happens to be in a certain range.
You’ll have to excuse my lengthiness—the reason I dread writing letters is because I am so apt to get to slinging wisdom & forget to let up. Thus much precious time is lost.
- Mark Twain

Re: Danny Ainge and Doc Rivers Press Conference (6/21)
« Reply #78 on: June 21, 2013, 02:10:15 PM »

Offline Boris Badenov

  • Rajon Rondo
  • *****
  • Posts: 5227
  • Tommy Points: 1065
Sten's stance is baffling considering that they deiscussed a deal with KG and Joradan earlier at the trade deadline.  It's not like the KG part of the deal was added for the Doc part of the deal.
That's an excellent point.  One gets the impression that once Stern makes up his mind about something, any facts that effectively counter his decision won't even be considered, even though what you said probably counters his assertion better than anything else I've seen.  From a logical perspective, that'd be checkmate... not that Stern cares.
Here is my issue with the deal.  So we can't circumvent the salary cap but splitting a deal in two.  Okay.  But we also can't technically trade a coach, so we can't make it into one deal.

So what the hell?!?   

It just looks like there is no way around this, since it is pretty much a catch 22.

I don't think whether you can trade a coach is an issue here. We are not proposing to trade Doc, we are proposing to let him out of his current contract in exchange for compensation. That has happened before (Riley to Miami, for example).

What is the issue is whether the KG trade is ONLY happening because of the Doc transaction. Suppose, for example, that KG will only waive his no-trade clause if Doc is the Clips' coach.

Then, technically, Doc's movement to the Clips becomes "part of" the KG deal - one won't happen without the other.

And, coaches cannot be part of trades involving players. That's what violates the CBA.

What needs to happen is for Stern to believe that the transactions could, or would, happen independent of each other. He has stated already his skepticism on that point.

I think that's the essence of it, but others can correct me if I'm wrong.

Re: Ainge and Doc Press Conference (Postponed till Monday)
« Reply #79 on: June 21, 2013, 02:13:45 PM »

Offline LooseCannon

  • NCE
  • Ed Macauley
  • ***********
  • Posts: 11833
  • Tommy Points: 950
Yeah I'm not quite sure what you expect Doc to fetch. Pat Riley got a 1st rounder I believe and SVG got two 2nd rounders or something.

I want Doc Rivers to fetch more than Pat Riley if Riley would feel insulted that Doc required more compensation.
"The worst thing that ever happened in sports was sports radio, and the internet is sports radio on steroids with lower IQs.” -- Brian Burke, former Toronto Maple Leafs senior adviser, at the 2013 MIT Sloan Sports Analytics Conference

Re: Ainge and Doc Press Conference (Postponed till Monday)
« Reply #80 on: June 21, 2013, 02:13:54 PM »

Offline CelticConcourse

  • Paul Silas
  • ******
  • Posts: 6162
  • Tommy Points: 383
  • Jeff Green
@markheisler:

Quote
Celtics just cancelled press conference w/o explanation. Clipper source says they'll up offer.

does that mean two 1st rd picks ?

Mark Heisler ‏@MarkHeisler 14m

Quote
Oops…I was told #Clippers offering #Celtics '2015 No. 1 protected.' Could be top 3 protected or top 10. Doesn't have to be lottery-protected

I'm fine with top 3 protection as long as we can still get the pick later.  E.g. if it's top 3 it rolls over until the next year.

Definitely not accepting a deal where the 1st rounder is protected and we don't get any pick at all if it happens to be in a certain range.

Yeah, we have to get 1 pick at the least. Preferably 2.
Jeff Green - Top 5 SF

[Kevin Garnett]
"I've always said J. Green is going to be one of the best players to ever play this game"

Re: Ainge and Doc Press Conference (Postponed till Monday)
« Reply #81 on: June 21, 2013, 02:36:19 PM »

Offline CT32

  • Lonnie Walker IV
  • Posts: 51
  • Tommy Points: 1
"@MarkHeisler: Two sources now confirm #Celtics #Clippers talking again, making progress. Before I had one, a suggestion from second and C's canceling p.c."

Re: Ainge and Doc Press Conference (Postponed till Monday)
« Reply #82 on: June 21, 2013, 02:39:34 PM »

Offline sed522002

  • Bailey Howell
  • **
  • Posts: 2280
  • Tommy Points: 221
2015 Protected 1st, huh?  That offer is an insult to Doc, Danny *and* Chris Paul.

Danny should just reschedule the press conference for 5 pm this afternoon and say whatever he was going to say this morning.

Yeah I'm not quite sure what you expect Doc to fetch. Pat Riley got a 1st rounder I believe and SVG got two 2nd rounders or something.

The pick doesn't sound very heavily protected anyways.

people think they can get the world for Doc...

anyways, here's an interesting article for all of you who think the clippers are evil, and prolonging this and bla bla bla. seems ainge approached rivers about coaching for the clipps first http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/228269/Source-Ainge-First-Approached-Rivers-With-Clippers-Trade-Scenario

You're late..we already posted and dissected that.

Re: Ainge and Doc Press Conference (Postponed till Monday)
« Reply #83 on: June 21, 2013, 02:40:49 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

  • Robert Parish
  • *********************
  • Posts: 21238
  • Tommy Points: 2016
It sounds like the Clips messed this up.  The two teams haggled for a while ... Clips offering DeAndre and a 1st rounder for KG and Doc.   Ainge asking for two 1st rounders.  Clippers countering with one.  Boston countering with two.  Clippers countering with one.  Boston hanging up...

Finally the Clippers agreed to do the deal... DeAndre and two 1st rounders for KG and Doc.  They decided to make it DeAndre straight up for KG... and the two picks as compensation for Doc.

#1 - Why did they do that?  Why couldn't they just do Deandre + pick for KG.   One pick as compensation for Doc? 

#2 ... The NBA didn't believe the two deals were separate.  Why didn't the Clippers play along?  As soon as the NBA said the deals were seperate, the Clippers said they weren't willing to give up a single pick for Doc Rivers... thus proving the league right.  ****???  WHy not just say "We value Doc rivers... we're giving up two picks for him" and leave it be?  That's ridiculous.

And now they are finally agreeing to give up one #1 pick for Doc.  Are they trying to use the league rejection as a way to get Boston to agree to the original offer of Deandre and a pick?   Ainge isn't going to do that.  There's not enough value there.  We'd be better off just hanging onto Doc and KG... or letting Doc walk and hanging onto KG... or watching Doc walk and KG retire.  We wouldn't be that much worse off.

Re: Ainge and Doc Press Conference (Postponed till Monday)
« Reply #84 on: June 21, 2013, 02:43:56 PM »

Offline sed522002

  • Bailey Howell
  • **
  • Posts: 2280
  • Tommy Points: 221
It sounds like the Clips messed this up.  The two teams haggled for a while ... Clips offering DeAndre and a 1st rounder for KG and Doc.   Ainge asking for two 1st rounders.  Clippers countering with one.  Boston countering with two.  Clippers countering with one.  Boston hanging up...

Finally the Clippers agreed to do the deal... DeAndre and two 1st rounders for KG and Doc.  They decided to make it DeAndre straight up for KG... and the two picks as compensation for Doc.

#1 - Why did they do that?  Why couldn't they just do Deandre + pick for KG.   One pick as compensation for Doc? 

#2 ... The NBA didn't believe the two deals were separate.  Why didn't the Clippers play along?  As soon as the NBA said the deals were seperate, the Clippers said they weren't willing to give up a single pick for Doc Rivers... thus proving the league right.  ****???  WHy not just say "We value Doc rivers... we're giving up two picks for him" and leave it be?  That's ridiculous.

And now they are finally agreeing to give up one #1 pick for Doc.  Are they trying to use the league rejection as a way to get Boston to agree to the original offer of Deandre and a pick?   Ainge isn't going to do that.  There's not enough value there.  We'd be better off just hanging onto Doc and KG... or letting Doc walk and hanging onto KG... or watching Doc walk and KG retire.  We wouldn't be that much worse off.

When did the league say it was separate? I missed that in the shuffle.

Re: Ainge and Doc Press Conference (Postponed till Monday)
« Reply #85 on: June 21, 2013, 02:46:39 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

  • NCE
  • Kevin Garnett
  • *****************
  • Posts: 17914
  • Tommy Points: 1294
2015 Protected 1st, huh?  That offer is an insult to Doc, Danny *and* Chris Paul.

Danny should just reschedule the press conference for 5 pm this afternoon and say whatever he was going to say this morning.

Yeah I'm not quite sure what you expect Doc to fetch. Pat Riley got a 1st rounder I believe and SVG got two 2nd rounders or something.

The pick doesn't sound very heavily protected anyways.

people think they can get the world for Doc...

anyways, here's an interesting article for all of you who think the clippers are evil, and prolonging this and bla bla bla. seems ainge approached rivers about coaching for the clipps first http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/228269/Source-Ainge-First-Approached-Rivers-With-Clippers-Trade-Scenario
Evil? Nah. Not the sharpest knife in the drawer, more like it.
"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."

Re: Ainge and Doc Press Conference (Postponed till Monday)
« Reply #86 on: June 21, 2013, 02:52:49 PM »

Offline prov1ml34

  • Jaylen Brown
  • Posts: 604
  • Tommy Points: 68
I think we need to make KG watch this. This is like the greatest thing I am ever witnessed and I am betting he doesn't waive his no-trade for the lowly Clippers. The thought of losing KG and PP is really hitting me today.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zc0a99xr2Rs
DKC Dallas Mavericks                         
PG: Darren Collison
SG: OJ Mayo
SF: Jae Crowder
PF: Dirk Nowitzki/Jackie Carmichael
C: Brandan Wright/Rudy Gobert
Coach - Rick Carlisle

Re: Ainge and Doc Press Conference (Postponed till Monday)
« Reply #87 on: June 21, 2013, 02:57:46 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

  • Robert Parish
  • *********************
  • Posts: 21238
  • Tommy Points: 2016
It sounds like the Clips messed this up.  The two teams haggled for a while ... Clips offering DeAndre and a 1st rounder for KG and Doc.   Ainge asking for two 1st rounders.  Clippers countering with one.  Boston countering with two.  Clippers countering with one.  Boston hanging up...

Finally the Clippers agreed to do the deal... DeAndre and two 1st rounders for KG and Doc.  They decided to make it DeAndre straight up for KG... and the two picks as compensation for Doc.

#1 - Why did they do that?  Why couldn't they just do Deandre + pick for KG.   One pick as compensation for Doc? 

#2 ... The NBA didn't believe the two deals were separate.  Why didn't the Clippers play along?  As soon as the NBA said the deals were seperate, the Clippers said they weren't willing to give up a single pick for Doc Rivers... thus proving the league right.  ****???  WHy not just say "We value Doc rivers... we're giving up two picks for him" and leave it be?  That's ridiculous.

And now they are finally agreeing to give up one #1 pick for Doc.  Are they trying to use the league rejection as a way to get Boston to agree to the original offer of Deandre and a pick?   Ainge isn't going to do that.  There's not enough value there.  We'd be better off just hanging onto Doc and KG... or letting Doc walk and hanging onto KG... or watching Doc walk and KG retire.  We wouldn't be that much worse off.

When did the league say it was separate? I missed that in the shuffle.
What I meant to say that as soon as the NBA caused a fuss about the two deals needing to be seperate and not contingent on one another, the Clippers then decided they weren't willing to give up even a single pic for Doc Rivers.  How did they see that playing out?  That's ridiculous.  At that point, they should have said, "Well we really value Doc... we're totally willing to give up two first rounders for him" and then the two teams in a few days could just trade Deandre straight up for KG.  I feel like the clippers botched this.

Re: Danny Ainge and Doc Rivers Press Conference (6/21)
« Reply #88 on: June 21, 2013, 03:21:59 PM »

Offline droopdog7

  • Tiny Archibald
  • *******
  • Posts: 7022
  • Tommy Points: 468
Sten's stance is baffling considering that they deiscussed a deal with KG and Joradan earlier at the trade deadline.  It's not like the KG part of the deal was added for the Doc part of the deal.
That's an excellent point.  One gets the impression that once Stern makes up his mind about something, any facts that effectively counter his decision won't even be considered, even though what you said probably counters his assertion better than anything else I've seen.  From a logical perspective, that'd be checkmate... not that Stern cares.
Here is my issue with the deal.  So we can't circumvent the salary cap but splitting a deal in two.  Okay.  But we also can't technically trade a coach, so we can't make it into one deal.

So what the hell?!?   

It just looks like there is no way around this, since it is pretty much a catch 22.

I don't think whether you can trade a coach is an issue here. We are not proposing to trade Doc, we are proposing to let him out of his current contract in exchange for compensation. That has happened before (Riley to Miami, for example).

What is the issue is whether the KG trade is ONLY happening because of the Doc transaction. Suppose, for example, that KG will only waive his no-trade clause if Doc is the Clips' coach.

Then, technically, Doc's movement to the Clips becomes "part of" the KG deal - one won't happen without the other.

And, coaches cannot be part of trades involving players. That's what violates the CBA.

What needs to happen is for Stern to believe that the transactions could, or would, happen independent of each other. He has stated already his skepticism on that point.

I think that's the essence of it, but others can correct me if I'm wrong.
Thanks.  I guess my point is, we'd happily make it a package deal if we could.  But since we cannot trade the coach, we do not have that option.  Also, I am not sure how we are circumventing anything by making these trades.  If we decide that one pick is sufficient for Doc, then fine.  We we decide that Jordan and anothe pick is sufficient for KG, then great. 

I don't see how the fact that KG wants to play for Doc should matter or how we are gaining an advantage.  We would, in theory, be making even exchanges in each scenerio.


Re: Ainge and Doc Press Conference (Postponed till Monday)
« Reply #89 on: June 21, 2013, 03:25:42 PM »

Offline droopdog7

  • Tiny Archibald
  • *******
  • Posts: 7022
  • Tommy Points: 468
2015 Protected 1st, huh?  That offer is an insult to Doc, Danny *and* Chris Paul.

Danny should just reschedule the press conference for 5 pm this afternoon and say whatever he was going to say this morning.

Yeah I'm not quite sure what you expect Doc to fetch. Pat Riley got a 1st rounder I believe and SVG got two 2nd rounders or something.

The pick doesn't sound very heavily protected anyways.
I guess it depends on what number the pick was for Riley.  Does anyone know?  In this case, we are talking about very late picks.