Forget tanking

[action781]

Maybe this is the result of a few drinks in me, but here goes...



Some of you talk so casually about tanking for good draft position and I am getting sick of it.  Despite the fact that it has been pointed out by so many posters on this blog how it almost never works out (see 1997, 2007 and that's just for Boston). 

The big reason this drives me crazy is because season ticket holders have already paid a lot of money to see some good basketball on the floor next season.  My ticket prices increased by 9.5% for next season to $8,000 for the entire season (I'm sure there are plenty of celticbloggers who pay much more than that too).  I have very little interest in paying $8,000 to watch Rondo sit out the season and a bunch of scrubs play crap basketball that way we can have a LONG shot of drafting some 19 year old who may or not pan out.  Am I really about to pay a 9.5% increase for a very very considerably worse product?  That's a question I wrestle with a lot as these trade rumors keep coming.

And the celtics management is comprised of business people.  They understand (which many of you don't) that if they put garbage on the floor then people (like me), will not put up that money any more that they need to keep their team from going in the red.  That's why its not such an easy decision to "yeah, lets just tank".

So please, consider this perspective next time you want to advise the team to tank.  My heart fills up with a little bit of hate every time I read it.

.edit: Mind the language please. We run a family friendly site. No masked profanity either

Edit:  my apology

[lightspeed5]

you'll get to see deandre jordan aka lob city dunk every 5 minutes. thats your moneys worth right there.

we'll tank, and get wiggins or parker.

what did you want to see? KG is 37 and has bone spurs, he probably would sit out half the season too... and pierce will probably lose another step and have joe johnson cross him over again.

[tarheelsxxiii]

TP. Sounds like it's just the notion of "tanking" that peeves him, as a paying fan. Deliberately throwing a season is a huge waste of money for someone paying 8k+ for season tickets, along with a slap in the face...

But yeah, point taken. We're going to suck regardless.

[D.o.s.]

Maybe this is the result of a few drinks in me, but here goes...



Some of you talk so casually about tanking for good draft position and I am getting (expletive) sick of it.  Despite the fact that it has been pointed out by so many posters on this blog how it almost never works out (see 1997, 2007 and that's just for Boston). 

The big reason this drives me crazy is because season ticket holders have already paid a lot of money to see some good basketball on the floor next season.  My ticket prices increased by 9.5% for next season to $8,000 for the entire season (I'm sure there are plenty of celticbloggers who pay much more than that too).  I have very little interest in paying $8,000 to watch Rondo sit out the season and a bunch of scrubs play crap basketball that way we can have a LONG shot of drafting some 19 year old who may or not pan out.  Am I really about to pay a 9.5% increase for a very very considerably worse product?  That's a question I wrestle with a lot as these trade rumors keep coming.

And the celtics management is comprised of business people.  They understand (which many of you don't) that if they put garbage on the floor then people (like me), will not put up that money any more that they need to keep their team from going in the red.  That's why its not such an easy decision to "yeah, lets just tank".

So please, consider this perspective next time you want to advise the team to tank.  My heart fills up with a little bit of hate every time I read it.

Curiously enough, I have very little interest in the complaints of someone who can afford season tickets--I doubt very much that you're not going to buy them, since you're here complaining about how much you're lining up to pay. Give Wyc as much money as you want. That could be zero. It could well be $8,000. No one's putting a gun to your head.


Now, a question--assuming you do keep buying your season tickets, and knowing that our team is not realistically in contention for a title, do you want our team to get better sooner, or later? Because the people who are advocating for tanking (I'm not one of them) are doing it because they think it will lead to Banner 18 the fastest. That's what we all want as fans, right?

[action781]

you'll get to see deandre jordan aka lob city dunk every 5 minutes. thats your moneys worth right there.

we'll tank, and get wiggins or parker.

what did you want to see? KG is 37 and has bone spurs, he probably would sit out half the season too... and pierce will probably lose another step and have joe johnson cross him over again.

Deandre jordan dunk every 5 minutes, huh?  Is that how he scored a WHOPPING 8.8ppg in the regular season and 3.7ppg in the playoffs?!  By dunking every 5 minutes?!  WOW I CANT WAIT FOR MORE OF THOSE STATS. (Check to see if those points and dunks stats add up there)

If I wanted to see dunking every 5 minutes, I'd pay for $15 per ticket for Harlem Globetrotters tickets.  But no, I am a basketball fan and want to watch the top level of basketball this world has to offer.  That's why I buy celtics tickets.

--

And, yeah, we'll just tank and get Wiggins or Parker, just like you said.  Amazing that Charlotte, Orlando, New Orleans, Sacramento, Detroit, Dallas, Phoenix, etc. aren't going to try to do the same thing.  How dumb of them not to do that!  Hahaha!!  Well, maybe they know that it would be stupid for them to do it, since we are the team that will actually win that lottery and get the right to draft one of them.

[tarheelsxxiii]

Maybe this is the result of a few drinks in me, but here goes...



Some of you talk so casually about tanking for good draft position and I am getting (expletive) sick of it.  Despite the fact that it has been pointed out by so many posters on this blog how it almost never works out (see 1997, 2007 and that's just for Boston). 

The big reason this drives me crazy is because season ticket holders have already paid a lot of money to see some good basketball on the floor next season.  My ticket prices increased by 9.5% for next season to $8,000 for the entire season (I'm sure there are plenty of celticbloggers who pay much more than that too).  I have very little interest in paying $8,000 to watch Rondo sit out the season and a bunch of scrubs play crap basketball that way we can have a LONG shot of drafting some 19 year old who may or not pan out.  Am I really about to pay a 9.5% increase for a very very considerably worse product?  That's a question I wrestle with a lot as these trade rumors keep coming.

And the celtics management is comprised of business people.  They understand (which many of you don't) that if they put garbage on the floor then people (like me), will not put up that money any more that they need to keep their team from going in the red.  That's why its not such an easy decision to "yeah, lets just tank".

So please, consider this perspective next time you want to advise the team to tank.  My heart fills up with a little bit of hate every time I read it.

Curiously enough, I have very little interest in the complaints of someone who can afford season tickets--I doubt very much that you're not going to buy them, since you're here complaining about how much you've paid. Give Wyc as much money as you want. That could be zero. It could well be $8,000. No one's putting a gun to your head.


Now, a question--assuming you do keep buying your season tickets, and knowing that our team is not realistically in contention for a title, do you want our team to get better sooner, or later? Because the people who are advocating for tanking (I'm not one of them) are doing it because they think it will lead to Banner 18 the fastest. That's what we all want as fans, right?

Not necessarily. Posters here are a small sector of a fan base. It sounds like you might not attend many games... yet, undoubtedly, I'm sure you're better informed and more knowledgeable than the majority of fans. Some people just want to take their families to a basketball game...

[D.o.s.]

That's a sentiment that seems to be at odds with the original poster.

And I get it. I really do. I don't attend many NBA games (I live too far from the Garden to make it feasible, which never-the-less remains the closest NBA arena), so I 100% sympathize with the notion that the organization owes it to us, the fans, to put the best team on the floor that they can. I'd be livid if I showed up for a crappy game where they got blown out--Especially as I don't have the luxury of season tickets, and subsequently shrugging my shoulders and watching them again in a few days.


If you're considering not-reupping your season tickets because you don't want to watch a tanking team, wouldn't you want the team to approach title contention as fast as possible?

[action781]

Maybe this is the result of a few drinks in me, but here goes...



Some of you talk so casually about tanking for good draft position and I am getting (expletive) sick of it.  Despite the fact that it has been pointed out by so many posters on this blog how it almost never works out (see 1997, 2007 and that's just for Boston). 

The big reason this drives me crazy is because season ticket holders have already paid a lot of money to see some good basketball on the floor next season.  My ticket prices increased by 9.5% for next season to $8,000 for the entire season (I'm sure there are plenty of celticbloggers who pay much more than that too).  I have very little interest in paying $8,000 to watch Rondo sit out the season and a bunch of scrubs play crap basketball that way we can have a LONG shot of drafting some 19 year old who may or not pan out.  Am I really about to pay a 9.5% increase for a very very considerably worse product?  That's a question I wrestle with a lot as these trade rumors keep coming.

And the celtics management is comprised of business people.  They understand (which many of you don't) that if they put garbage on the floor then people (like me), will not put up that money any more that they need to keep their team from going in the red.  That's why its not such an easy decision to "yeah, lets just tank".

So please, consider this perspective next time you want to advise the team to tank.  My heart fills up with a little bit of hate every time I read it.

Curiously enough, I have very little interest in the complaints of someone who can afford season tickets--I doubt very much that you're not going to buy them, since you're here complaining about how much you're lining up to pay. Give Wyc as much money as you want. That could be zero. It could well be $8,000. No one's putting a gun to your head.


Now, a question--assuming you do keep buying your season tickets, and knowing that our team is not realistically in contention for a title, do you want our team to get better sooner, or later? Because the people who are advocating for tanking (I'm not one of them) are doing it because they think it will lead to Banner 18 the fastest. That's what we all want as fans, right?

Well, if the celtics don't make any trade, I want to give the celtics what I agreed to give them in February (when season ticket holders must decide to renew or not).

If the celtics do trade away KG and Pierce, then I would love to give them zero, but I've already given them over 75% of my balance, so no a gun is not to my head, but my money is already gone.

--

As for your question, I disagree with the notion of "knowing that our team is not realistically in contention for a title".  I think with a healthy Rondo, this celtics team is as much contenders as Dallas was going into 2011.  I think Miami is a very beatable team.  So I can't answer the question since I disagree with the premise.

[LatterDayCelticsfan]

Aren`t most of the teams perpetually stuck in the lottery also `tanking?` No thanks, let the rest of the league hate us but I prefer we acquire superstars thru trades and free agency. Good drafting is nice but the draft is too hit and miss to seriously depend on to build a championship roster.

[action781]

If you're considering not-reupping your season tickets because you don't want to watch a tanking team, wouldn't you want the team to approach title contention as fast as possible?

Now we can start to talk.  Yeah, if we make trades and I could get my money back and not have to pay for next season's tickets, then yeah, I would want that to occur.

But here's the issue, from a business standpoint.  If they want to take this "tanking" approach to title contention as fast as possible... who is going to pay for tickets?  And if nobody is paying for tickets, this team is going to be considerably in the red.  (Of course not literally "nobody" will buy tickets, but sales and prices will plummet of course)

Not my problem for sure, but it certainly is a problem for somebody.

[LarBrd33]

The opposition to tanking is from short-sighted people.  As Celtic fans, you can't complain about it with a straight face ... The last time we tanked we won the title the very next year.  Danny Ainge has a 100% success rate with tanking.

The question is... Would you rather (as a season ticket holder) pay for 10 years of 30-44 win seasons... Or pay for a few years of 20 wins followed by 7+ years of 55+ win contending seasons.  Do the math.

[D.o.s.]

If you're considering not-reupping your season tickets because you don't want to watch a tanking team, wouldn't you want the team to approach title contention as fast as possible?

Now we can start to talk.  Yeah, if we make trades and I could get my money back and not have to pay for next season's tickets, then yeah, I would want that to occur.

But here's the issue, from a business standpoint.  If they want to take this "tanking" approach to title contention as fast as possible... who is going to pay for tickets?  And if nobody is paying for tickets, this team is going to be considerably in the red.  (Of course not literally "nobody" will buy tickets, but sales and prices will plummet of course)

Not my problem for sure, but it certainly is a problem for somebody.

Maybe I should reconsider my stance on tanking... I mean, don't we all want prices to plummet? 

I don't have access to the Celtic's books (and, as we saw during the lockout, no one really does), but I assume they can safely operate at a loss in the short term without too much damage done to operating costs--what with the franchise being such a known quantity, historically I doubt we'll end up with a Kings-like Arco arena with nonfunctional bathrooms.

But, like you said earlier, you can always pay 15 bucks a head to watch the Globetrotters if you want to be entertained. When you're paying NBA prices, it's reasonable to expect a solid product.

And if they're really bad, you probably won't even be able to recoup your ticket costs by selling individual games on craigslist or wherever. Yucky.

[action781]

The opposition to tanking is from short-sighted people.  As Celtic fans, you can't complain about it with a straight face ... The last time we tanked we won the title the very next year.  Danny Ainge has a 100% success rate with tanking.

The question is... Would you rather (as a season ticket holder) pay for 10 years of 30-44 win seasons... A few years of 20 wins followed by 7+ years of 55+ win contending seasons.  Do the math.

Speaking of short-sighted....

What is the bobcats success rate with tanking?  What about the Hornets?  What about the Kings?  What about the cavs and wizards who actually landed a #1 pick and players considered to be franchise cornerstones?

But Danny is 1/1...

If Danny goes to Mohegan Sun and bets on black on one spin of a roulette table and wins... are you going to let him gamble with your money since he has a 100% success rate?  No?  Why not?

There is absolutely zero "math" in your post.  If you can GUARANTEE ME a top 2 pick in next years draft and one of those draft picks will be an 8x all star, sure let's go for it, let's tank.

[kgainez]

Maybe this is the result of a few drinks in me, but here goes...



Some of you talk so casually about tanking for good draft position and I am getting (expletive) sick of it.  Despite the fact that it has been pointed out by so many posters on this blog how it almost never works out (see 1997, 2007 and that's just for Boston). 

The big reason this drives me crazy is because season ticket holders have already paid a lot of money to see some good basketball on the floor next season.  My ticket prices increased by 9.5% for next season to $8,000 for the entire season (I'm sure there are plenty of celticbloggers who pay much more than that too).  I have very little interest in paying $8,000 to watch Rondo sit out the season and a bunch of scrubs play crap basketball that way we can have a LONG shot of drafting some 19 year old who may or not pan out.  Am I really about to pay a 9.5% increase for a very very considerably worse product?  That's a question I wrestle with a lot as these trade rumors keep coming.

And the celtics management is comprised of business people.  They understand (which many of you don't) that if they put garbage on the floor then people (like me), will not put up that money any more that they need to keep their team from going in the red.  That's why its not such an easy decision to "yeah, lets just tank".

So please, consider this perspective next time you want to advise the team to tank.  My heart fills up with a little bit of hate every time I read it.

Curiously enough, I have very little interest in the complaints of someone who can afford season tickets

BUH BUH BUH BURN

[action781]

But, like you said earlier, you can always pay 15 bucks a head to watch the Globetrotters if you want to be entertained. When you're paying NBA prices, it's reasonable to expect a solid product.

And if they're really bad, you probably won't even be able to recoup your ticket costs by selling individual games on craigslist or wherever. Yucky.

Exactly.  And the biggest thing isn't so much a "solid" product.  That's what you're kind of making a judgment on yourself.  The problem is when you're making this kind of investment/judgement in a team that is a complete unknown not in terms of production, but in terms of personnel.

I make a decision in February based on what I think will be out there next year.  I judge that on what players are currently under contract for next year (which was our whole team essentially).  When I make that kind of commitment to that team then it is all thrown away, it's tough to be OK with.

Another very loyal fan and poster "vinnie" I saw just gave up his tickets because he's tired of the turnover.  I'm getting that way myself.  I just want to know the team I'm buying tickets for.  I don't need to have a 100% guarantee, but I want to be fairly confident.  It seems that lately in the NBA, it's almost 100% guarantee you will not get the team you are expecting.  I luckily haven't had complaints so far over the past few years, but this summer I might.