Forsberg: King's Ransom?

[winsomme]

http://espn.go.com/boston/nba/story/_/id/9390216/boston-celtics-stuck-crossroads-doc-rivers-kevin-garnett-los-angeles-clippers

I just read the Forsberg article and once again am confused by the assessment that the package that Danny is apparently asking for is a "king's ransom." How exactly are two backups (one getting paid 11+ mill a year) and a low first round pick in a weak draft a king's ransom?

People often argue that we overestimate our own young players, but isn't that happening now here with Bledsoe and Jordan? Bledsoe has some nice skills but really is just another undersized two guard, and Jordan while showing some early flashes (getting him a big contract) has seemed to settle into a back up center role. He has no real offensive moves, is not a good on the ball defender and can't hit FTs to save his life.

I don't see how this is a good deal for the Cs. This was a crappy deal during the season and is now being recycled as a king's ransom....Count me as one praying this deal does not happen. It will turn us into one of these fledgling, barely in/out of the playoffs teams (ie Bucks, Sixers, Atlanta, Toronto) that is going absolutely nowhere. This is not a rebuild move; it's a no-build move.

Don't do it, Danny.

[SHAQATTACK]

http://espn.go.com/boston/nba/story/_/id/9390216/boston-celtics-stuck-crossroads-doc-rivers-kevin-garnett-los-angeles-clippers

I just read the Forsberg article and once again am confused by the assessment that the package that Danny is apparently asking for is a "king's ransom." How exactly are two backups (one getting paid 11+ mill a year) and a low first round pick in a weak draft a king's ransom?

People often argue that we overestimate our own young players, but isn't that happening now here with Bledsoe and Jordan? Bledsoe has some nice skills but really is just another undersized two guard, and Jordan while showing some early flashes (getting him a big contract) has seemed to settle into a back up center role. He has no real offensive moves, is not a good on the ball defender and can't hit FTs to save his life.

I don't see how this is a good deal for the Cs. This was a crappy deal during the season and is now being recycled as a king's ransom....Count me as one praying this deal does not happen. It will turn us into one of these fledgling, barely in/out of the playoffs teams (ie Bucks, Sixers, Atlanta, Toronto) that is going absolutely nowhere. This is not a rebuild move; it's a no-build move.

Don't do it, Danny.

totally agree ....  they can have Doc for picks ...he has now exposed his true colors as a backstabbing hack ....and is no longer the right coach for the Celtics going forward. And HE KNOWS  this and will do all he can IN FAVOR of the Clippers his future team,  knowing now he has most likely shot his load as a Celtic.....Rivers is not to be trusted ....he will say or do what is necessary to see his new bosses in LA plan though.

The high first round picks aren't enough with two 2 nd string players......we need to at least dump Lee and Terry on the CLippers  as well.

Clippers are screwed without CP3 ,  they will ultimately BID anything to gain DH and CP3 ,

If I'm Danny I hold them to the fire .....till they scream "UNCLE"

I'm not a fan of the CLips,   they can kiss off ...... I'm not helping them build a Super team and destroy the Celtics for nothing  .

I hope DA is ruthless as his reputation says

[slamdunk]

If I'm Danny I hold them to the fire .....till they scream "UNCLE"

I'm not a fan of the CLips,   they can kiss off ...... I'm not helping them build a Super team and destroy the Celtics for nothing  .

I hope DA is ruthless as his reputation says

Agreed.

[Xepa]

http://espn.go.com/boston/nba/story/_/id/9390216/boston-celtics-stuck-crossroads-doc-rivers-kevin-garnett-los-angeles-clippers

I just read the Forsberg article and once again am confused by the assessment that the package that Danny is apparently asking for is a "king's ransom." How exactly are two backups (one getting paid 11+ mill a year) and a low first round pick in a weak draft a king's ransom?

People often argue that we overestimate our own young players, but isn't that happening now here with Bledsoe and Jordan? Bledsoe has some nice skills but really is just another undersized two guard, and Jordan while showing some early flashes (getting him a big contract) has seemed to settle into a back up center role. He has no real offensive moves, is not a good on the ball defender and can't hit FTs to save his life.

I don't see how this is a good deal for the Cs. This was a crappy deal during the season and is now being recycled as a king's ransom....Count me as one praying this deal does not happen. It will turn us into one of these fledgling, barely in/out of the playoffs teams (ie Bucks, Sixers, Atlanta, Toronto) that is going absolutely nowhere. This is not a rebuild move; it's a no-build move.

Don't do it, Danny.

totally agree ....  they can have Doc for picks ...he has now exposed his true colors as a backstabbing hack ....and is no longer the right coach for the Celtics going forward. And HE KNOWS  this and will do all he can IN FAVOR of the Clippers his future team,  knowing now he has most likely shot his load as a Celtic.....Rivers is not to be trusted ....he will say or do what is necessary to see his new bosses in LA plan though.

The high first round picks aren't enough with two 2 nd string players......we need to at least dump Lee and Terry on the CLippers  as well.

Clippers are screwed without CP3 ,  they will ultimately BID anything to gain DH and CP3 ,

If I'm Danny I hold them to the fire .....till they scream "UNCLE"

I'm not a fan of the CLips,   they can kiss off ...... I'm not helping them build a Super team and destroy the Celtics for nothing  .

I hope DA is ruthless as his reputation says

1) Have you gotten a better offer for KG? With multiple sources reporting (not message board conjecture)?

If not...then ANYTHING is better than KG giving you enough wins to be a mediocre team outside the lottery. Capspace only matters for the difference of when DeAndre's contract ends and KG, which is 1 year. Meaning you HAVE to sign someone this summer to get value. Who's going to sign? Lebron? no. Love? Why would he leave Rubio and Rick Adelman? Lakers are gunning for him too.

2) DeAndre is a starter. He's young and could get better. KG is just getting you diminishing returns. Worst case scenario is that Jordan stat inflates on the Celtics to 10 and 10 and then you trade him for a mid first rounder (being SUPER conservative here).

3) Only reason Bledsoe is a backup is because he's behind Chris freaking Paul.

Seriously...I don't get
1) The DA hate. He got you guys a title. Shush.
2) The Doc hate. Yah he was mediocre pre-big 3 but he's a championship motivating coach, not a rebuilding coach (cough cough Orlando).
3) The belief that you can get a god package for a 37 year old center.

[chambers]

http://espn.go.com/boston/nba/story/_/id/9390216/boston-celtics-stuck-crossroads-doc-rivers-kevin-garnett-los-angeles-clippers

I just read the Forsberg article and once again am confused by the assessment that the package that Danny is apparently asking for is a "king's ransom." How exactly are two backups (one getting paid 11+ mill a year) and a low first round pick in a weak draft a king's ransom?

People often argue that we overestimate our own young players, but isn't that happening now here with Bledsoe and Jordan? Bledsoe has some nice skills but really is just another undersized two guard, and Jordan while showing some early flashes (getting him a big contract) has seemed to settle into a back up center role. He has no real offensive moves, is not a good on the ball defender and can't hit FTs to save his life.

I don't see how this is a good deal for the Cs. This was a crappy deal during the season and is now being recycled as a king's ransom....Count me as one praying this deal does not happen. It will turn us into one of these fledgling, barely in/out of the playoffs teams (ie Bucks, Sixers, Atlanta, Toronto) that is going absolutely nowhere. This is not a rebuild move; it's a no-build move.

Don't do it, Danny.

totally agree ....  they can have Doc for picks ...he has now exposed his true colors as a backstabbing hack ....and is no longer the right coach for the Celtics going forward. And HE KNOWS  this and will do all he can IN FAVOR of the Clippers his future team,  knowing now he has most likely shot his load as a Celtic.....Rivers is not to be trusted ....he will say or do what is necessary to see his new bosses in LA plan though.

The high first round picks aren't enough with two 2 nd string players......we need to at least dump Lee and Terry on the CLippers  as well.

Clippers are screwed without CP3 ,  they will ultimately BID anything to gain DH and CP3 ,

If I'm Danny I hold them to the fire .....till they scream "UNCLE"

I'm not a fan of the CLips,   they can kiss off ...... I'm not helping them build a Super team and destroy the Celtics for nothing  .

I hope DA is ruthless as his reputation says

How do you know Danny didn't propose this in the first place? Danny knows that the only way we get something for the future is by trading KG and Pierce. KG ain't going no where out of his no trade clause without Pierce going. If Danny is going to blow the team up and do a proper tank season or two then the best way to acquire assets for that is to trade for KG and Pierce while they still have some value. The Clippers have always been interested in Doc and Doc loves KG and Pierce so if they want a championship before their careers end then the best chance is for them in LA, with Doc and Chris Paul.
It's probably Danny pushing for Doc to go because he wants a horrible team to assure we tank and Rivers may not be suitable nor want to go through a tank again.
If Doc can land us some more picks or assets in any trade scenario, why not include him?
You really have no idea if its his call or Danny who proposed this in the first place...
Heck, Doc going there is the only way KG goes(the only way we get anything for our future). Sucks to lose them but we are at the end of the road. They've all(especially Doc) given their heart and soul for 5 to 9 years in Doc's case.

[RyNye]

totally agree ....  they can have Doc for picks ...he has now exposed his true colors as a backstabbing hack

 

I mean, do you seriously put so much stock into vague trade rumors that have so far been completely unsubstantiated? Nowhere have we heard from Doc, so how you can possibly be arrogant enough to assume you know exactly what he is thinking?

[Neurotic Guy]

http://espn.go.com/boston/nba/story/_/id/9390216/boston-celtics-stuck-crossroads-doc-rivers-kevin-garnett-los-angeles-clippers

I just read the Forsberg article and once again am confused by the assessment that the package that Danny is apparently asking for is a "king's ransom." How exactly are two backups (one getting paid 11+ mill a year) and a low first round pick in a weak draft a king's ransom?

People often argue that we overestimate our own young players, but isn't that happening now here with Bledsoe and Jordan? Bledsoe has some nice skills but really is just another undersized two guard, and Jordan while showing some early flashes (getting him a big contract) has seemed to settle into a back up center role. He has no real offensive moves, is not a good on the ball defender and can't hit FTs to save his life.

I don't see how this is a good deal for the Cs. This was a crappy deal during the season and is now being recycled as a king's ransom....Count me as one praying this deal does not happen. It will turn us into one of these fledgling, barely in/out of the playoffs teams (ie Bucks, Sixers, Atlanta, Toronto) that is going absolutely nowhere. This is not a rebuild move; it's a no-build move.

Don't do it, Danny.

Well-stated but I wouldn't be too sure that this deal makes us a perrenial mediocre team. It could, but not necessarily.  This is a trade for assets and what this trade eventually turns into in terms of players is dependent upon cards yet to be played. Jordan's contract is steep for his skills, but is an 11.4M expiring deal in 2014-15 -- workable in the big scheme. 

[kingtutts]

totally agree ....  they can have Doc for picks ...he has now exposed his true colors as a backstabbing hack ....and is no longer the right coach for the Celtics going forward.

I completely disagree he is a backstabbing hack.  Doc wants another run with KG and Paul, Danny might not.  I think Doc is exploring if there is another destination to make this happen.  I happen to agree with Doc and not Danny.  The Eastern conference is at this point literally Miami, Indiana, and wide open.  With a healthy Rondo and Sullinger, our squad could've easily been in the ECF, and with a healthy Jeff Green, had a decent shot of beating Miami.  Thats just my two cents. 

[Celtics4ever]

  Doc wants another run with KG and Paul, Danny might not.  I think Doc is exploring if there is another destination to make this happen.  I happen to agree with Doc and not Danny.  The Eastern conference is at this point literally Miami, Indiana, and wide open.  With a healthy Rondo and Sullinger, our squad could've easily been in the ECF, and with a healthy Jeff Green, had a decent shot of beating Miami.  Thats just my two cents. 

And this will set us back ten years and no chance at 2014 picks...

[Kuberski1]

http://espn.go.com/boston/nba/story/_/id/9390216/boston-celtics-stuck-crossroads-doc-rivers-kevin-garnett-los-angeles-clippers

I just read the Forsberg article and once again am confused by the assessment that the package that Danny is apparently asking for is a "king's ransom." How exactly are two backups (one getting paid 11+ mill a year) and a low first round pick in a weak draft a king's ransom?

People often argue that we overestimate our own young players, but isn't that happening now here with Bledsoe and Jordan? Bledsoe has some nice skills but really is just another undersized two guard, and Jordan while showing some early flashes (getting him a big contract) has seemed to settle into a back up center role. He has no real offensive moves, is not a good on the ball defender and can't hit FTs to save his life.

I don't see how this is a good deal for the Cs. This was a crappy deal during the season and is now being recycled as a king's ransom....Count me as one praying this deal does not happen. It will turn us into one of these fledgling, barely in/out of the playoffs teams (ie Bucks, Sixers, Atlanta, Toronto) that is going absolutely nowhere. This is not a rebuild move; it's a no-build move.

Don't do it, Danny.

totally agree ....  they can have Doc for picks ...he has now exposed his true colors as a backstabbing hack ....and is no longer the right coach for the Celtics going forward. And HE KNOWS  this and will do all he can IN FAVOR of the Clippers his future team,  knowing now he has most likely shot his load as a Celtic.....Rivers is not to be trusted ....he will say or do what is necessary to see his new bosses in LA plan though.

The high first round picks aren't enough with two 2 nd string players......we need to at least dump Lee and Terry on the CLippers  as well.

Clippers are screwed without CP3 ,  they will ultimately BID anything to gain DH and CP3 ,

If I'm Danny I hold them to the fire .....till they scream "UNCLE"

I'm not a fan of the CLips,   they can kiss off ...... I'm not helping them build a Super team and destroy the Celtics for nothing  .

I hope DA is ruthless as his reputation says

1) Have you gotten a better offer for KG? With multiple sources reporting (not message board conjecture)?

If not...then ANYTHING is better than KG giving you enough wins to be a mediocre team outside the lottery. Capspace only matters for the difference of when DeAndre's contract ends and KG, which is 1 year. Meaning you HAVE to sign someone this summer to get value. Who's going to sign? Lebron? no. Love? Why would he leave Rubio and Rick Adelman? Lakers are gunning for him too.

2) DeAndre is a starter. He's young and could get better. KG is just getting you diminishing returns. Worst case scenario is that Jordan stat inflates on the Celtics to 10 and 10 and then you trade him for a mid first rounder (being SUPER conservative here).

3) Only reason Bledsoe is a backup is because he's behind Chris freaking Paul.

Seriously...I don't get
1) The DA hate. He got you guys a title. Shush.
2) The Doc hate. Yah he was mediocre pre-big 3 but he's a championship motivating coach, not a rebuilding coach (cough cough Orlando).
3) The belief that you can get a god package for a 37 year old center.

KG has not been actively shopped - he has a no-trade clause.  KG, even at his current age, is a huge upgrade over Jordan...he would make you a serious contender, which you are not as currently constructed.

Doc not hated by most of us, as we realize that this proposed deal is not necessarily Doc's doing, but something the organization is taking a serious look at.  In all likelihood Doc is back at the helm next year.

I assume you mean "good" package - if a team is close to contending for the chip, KG would be a huge difference maker.  So yes, we believe we could get something "good" from a team that is almost there, but not quite.  The playoffs are not the regular season, and while 82 games is wearing on the likes of a KG, he is built for the playoffs: slower pace, far more intense, more days between games, and defense at even more of a premium.

If you don't want KG...fine, we'll keep him.

[clover]

KG's ancient and fragile at this point, and Bledsoe's ready to break out, if given the opportunity.

But Jordan's contract makes him a wash, especially if they've still got Rondo's weak FT's already at the end of games, and Bledsoe could go elsewhere soon of his own volition.

Bledsoe and Jordan and a 1st are worth it, IMO.  Bledsoe and Jordan without any picks is essentially a wash.  But Jordan plus two late 1sts is still a questionable deal: Jordan and just one of those picks is unquestionably bad.

Out of Pierce, KG and Doc, KG's the one whose influence I'd like on the team next year.  But with Pierce gone, if he opts to retire Danny's got some nice money to work with, so all is not lost.

Doc back after all this?  Eh, I'm not keen on it--other than watching him get to coach the rebuild that he deserves, after his shenanigans.  Especially if Doc did get word to the Clips not to include Bledsoe, he has earned a major comeuppance.

[CoachBo]

Sounds like Forsberg's thrown in with all the posters on this board who are ready to swap the Big 3 Era for a warm bucket of Clipper spit.

Terrible, terrible trade - with Bledsoe. Pitino-esque, hardly a "king's ransom."

I'll wait for the retirements, thank you very much.

[danglertx]

http://espn.go.com/boston/nba/story/_/id/9390216/boston-celtics-stuck-crossroads-doc-rivers-kevin-garnett-los-angeles-clippers

I just read the Forsberg article and once again am confused by the assessment that the package that Danny is apparently asking for is a "king's ransom." How exactly are two backups (one getting paid 11+ mill a year) and a low first round pick in a weak draft a king's ransom?

People often argue that we overestimate our own young players, but isn't that happening now here with Bledsoe and Jordan? Bledsoe has some nice skills but really is just another undersized two guard, and Jordan while showing some early flashes (getting him a big contract) has seemed to settle into a back up center role. He has no real offensive moves, is not a good on the ball defender and can't hit FTs to save his life.

I don't see how this is a good deal for the Cs. This was a crappy deal during the season and is now being recycled as a king's ransom....Count me as one praying this deal does not happen. It will turn us into one of these fledgling, barely in/out of the playoffs teams (ie Bucks, Sixers, Atlanta, Toronto) that is going absolutely nowhere. This is not a rebuild move; it's a no-build move.

Don't do it, Danny.

totally agree ....  they can have Doc for picks ...he has now exposed his true colors as a backstabbing hack ....and is no longer the right coach for the Celtics going forward. And HE KNOWS  this and will do all he can IN FAVOR of the Clippers his future team,  knowing now he has most likely shot his load as a Celtic.....Rivers is not to be trusted ....he will say or do what is necessary to see his new bosses in LA plan though.

The high first round picks aren't enough with two 2 nd string players......we need to at least dump Lee and Terry on the CLippers  as well.

Clippers are screwed without CP3 ,  they will ultimately BID anything to gain DH and CP3 ,

If I'm Danny I hold them to the fire .....till they scream "UNCLE"

I'm not a fan of the CLips,   they can kiss off ...... I'm not helping them build a Super team and destroy the Celtics for nothing  .

I hope DA is ruthless as his reputation says

1) Have you gotten a better offer for KG? With multiple sources reporting (not message board conjecture)?

If not...then ANYTHING is better than KG giving you enough wins to be a mediocre team outside the lottery. Capspace only matters for the difference of when DeAndre's contract ends and KG, which is 1 year. Meaning you HAVE to sign someone this summer to get value. Who's going to sign? Lebron? no. Love? Why would he leave Rubio and Rick Adelman? Lakers are gunning for him too.

2) DeAndre is a starter. He's young and could get better. KG is just getting you diminishing returns. Worst case scenario is that Jordan stat inflates on the Celtics to 10 and 10 and then you trade him for a mid first rounder (being SUPER conservative here).

3) Only reason Bledsoe is a backup is because he's behind Chris freaking Paul.

Seriously...I don't get
1) The DA hate. He got you guys a title. Shush.
2) The Doc hate. Yah he was mediocre pre-big 3 but he's a championship motivating coach, not a rebuilding coach (cough cough Orlando).
3) The belief that you can get a god package for a 37 year old center.

I couldn't disagree with your assessment more.

First off, the difference between KG retiring now, vs Jordon's contract two years from now running out is HUGE.  It helps us get under the tax threshold which becomes more and more punitive.

Secondly, DeAndre Jordon stinks.  He is a one trick pony.  He can't pick and pop, has no offensive game, and isn't a dominant rebounder.  KG is head and shoulders better than Jordon, even at 37, which says a lot about Jordon.

Lastly, Bledsoe is a backup not because he couldn't beat out Paul, but because he couldn't beat out Crawford and Green.  When Bledsoe did get his chance with Paul out, the team was horrible.

I'd rather run it back than start a rebuild with a center who can't hit 50% of his free throws and generally looks disinterested most of the time and another backup guard.

Hopefully Paul gets fed up with the Clips, heads to Houston or Dallas and drags Howard with him and the Clips go back to being the Clippers. 

[TripleOT]

On what planet is Jordan an ideal center to put next to Griffin?  They'd e way better off with a big body who can hit the 18 footer.  if I'm defending the Clips, I have Jordan's man in help position near the rim the entire game. 

Put a floor stretcher like KG next to Griffin, even for two years, and the team becomes way more potent offensively, and way better defensively.

Regarding Bledsoe, the Clips want to save him for a possible deal for a wing like Afflalo, but if it's Bledsoe or no deal, they need to take the deal.  If they don't include Butler in the Cs' deal, they should be able to move his expiring deal for a quality wing.  The other option is to sign a vet ring chaser for the minimum. 

The Clippers priority should be signing CP3, and not worrying about what secondary deal can bring in a decent wing.  If the Doc/KG move locks up Paul, you do the deal, even if you have to give up Bledsoe.   

KG has two years of high level ball left in him. He figures to be way better than DJ for those two years, and the cachet he brings to LA is a huge factor too.  Re-uniting him with Billups will give this team the veteran leadership they need to balance out CP3's surliness.  If they can get Pierce for the MLE after Boston declines his option, they'd be the favorite in the West. 

[Yoki_IsTheName]

Exactly.

It better cost KG more than DeAndre and Bledsoe to have him traded. I understand he's old, but what he brings in productivity and leadership is more than what the two guys will bring us.

I think they are being traded for the sake of just being traded. Why can't we just start rebuilding next year? Wit cap room. I get it, we're trying to get something for our guys who won't be playing next year but if we're acquiring lesser production and breaking up the chemistry when even though a lot are saying it, we still have a shot to win the tittle nest year, what's the point?