Clippers and Celtics Talking Deal

[connor]

I think we get Jordan and i like it. I want him. He is very long, athletic, and is young! He is only 24. If you get a coach that'll play him he will be a good player.

The deal is not happening with Bledsoe and rightfully so. I don't want Jordan on this team. I don't understand  why you like him so much .

lol you guys are so confrontational i am not saying the guy is the next Ewing or Hakeem. But he helps us move forward. He fills the gap of a big man. He is a capable starter in this league.

We aren't winning anything next year with the team we have so we have to move on and gather pieces. Nobody thought Perk was a starting center in this league but he played D and would rebound. But his Avg's are just like Deandre. If we eventually add better players around him he fills the need of Defense, Rebounding, And finishing around the rim.


For a fan base that loved Perk so much there isn't much different between the two except Jordan is way more athletic.

Nobody is saying Jordan sucks (or at least I'm not).

What I'm saying is he's nowhere near worth the money he's getting paid, and for a team that, as you said, isn't "winning anything next year," his contract kills the rebuilding process (and how fast it goes).

How does his contract kill the rebuilding process? I think you are confusing rebuilding with reloading. Rebuilding takes time and is about collecting assets and developing players then using your  assets and cap room to bring in better talent. Reloading is all about having cap room to bring in the next piece to put you over the top.

We aren't going to be competing for a championship this year or the next when Jordan is making 11m and 12m. If we keep KG that cap space is tied up next year just the same. Jordan is a very tradeable commodity. No you might not be getting anything particularly spectacular back for him, but easily expiring contracts and a pick or two.

We are not stuck with Jordan like he is one of those untradeable contracts that you have to pair with picks/assets to get rid of, nor are we using him as the centerpiece of our rebuild if we get him. He just gives us more OPTIONS. With KG we can run it back and let him retire getting nothing in return or we can trade hm to LAC. With Jordan we have far more options (develop him for the future, move him for picks/expirings, pair him with other assets in a larger deal).

We are rebuilding. We need flexibility.

[CelticsFan9]

For all your talk about him producing points more than most NBA players, don't you think he would've played more?

Are you implying that he doesn't produce more points per shot than most NBA players? The statistics say otherwise. Yes, his FT% is HORRIBLE, but, again, he produces more points per shot than most NBA players, so it really is irrelevant. Despite his poor FT shooting, he STILL scores 1.5 PPS. Imagine how good he could be if he improved his FT shooting.

He's that efficient because 80% of his shots are dunks and layups.

100%*

It's still pretty good.

Yeah, for a limited offensive player it is.

The question becomes do you want to pay said player (who is also an average defender) $23 million over the next two years?

[CelticsFan9]

I think we get Jordan and i like it. I want him. He is very long, athletic, and is young! He is only 24. If you get a coach that'll play him he will be a good player.

The deal is not happening with Bledsoe and rightfully so. I don't want Jordan on this team. I don't understand  why you like him so much .

lol you guys are so confrontational i am not saying the guy is the next Ewing or Hakeem. But he helps us move forward. He fills the gap of a big man. He is a capable starter in this league.

We aren't winning anything next year with the team we have so we have to move on and gather pieces. Nobody thought Perk was a starting center in this league but he played D and would rebound. But his Avg's are just like Deandre. If we eventually add better players around him he fills the need of Defense, Rebounding, And finishing around the rim.


For a fan base that loved Perk so much there isn't much different between the two except Jordan is way more athletic.

Nobody is saying Jordan sucks (or at least I'm not).

What I'm saying is he's nowhere near worth the money he's getting paid, and for a team that, as you said, isn't "winning anything next year," his contract kills the rebuilding process (and how fast it goes).

How does his contract kill the rebuilding process? I think you are confusing rebuilding with reloading. Rebuilding takes time and is about collecting assets and developing players then using your  assets and cap room to bring in better talent. Reloading is all about having cap room to bring in the next piece to put you over the top.

We aren't going to be competing for a championship this year or the next when Jordan is making 11m and 12m. If we keep KG that cap space is tied up next year just the same. Jordan is a very tradeable commodity. No you might not be getting anything particularly spectacular back for him, but easily expiring contracts and a pick or two.

We are not stuck with Jordan like he is one of those untradeable contracts that you have to pair with picks/assets to get rid of, nor are we using him as the centerpiece of our rebuild if we get him. He just gives us more OPTIONS. With KG we can run it back and let him retire getting nothing in return or we can trade hm to LAC. With Jordan we have far more options (develop him for the future, move him for picks/expirings, pair him with other assets in a larger deal).

We are rebuilding. We need flexibility.

I know what the difference is, and Jordan is a problem for rebuilding teams (which is what I expect us to be next year).

Jordan, despite what many believe, isn't a great trade asset.  He was reportedly offered straight up for a 37-year-old Kevin Garnett (who, for all we know, could fall off a cliff next year).  That shows his value, which in my opinion, isn't all that great.

Sure, the Celtics could bring him to Boston and try to develop him, but I think his ceiling is nothing more than a poor man's Tyson Chandler.  There's nothing wrong with that, but I don't see that as being a valuable building block.

Factor that in with the fact that he's not a great trade asset, and you have a problem on your hands.

[hpantazo]

For all your talk about him producing points more than most NBA players, don't you think he would've played more?

Are you implying that he doesn't produce more points per shot than most NBA players? The statistics say otherwise. Yes, his FT% is HORRIBLE, but, again, he produces more points per shot than most NBA players, so it really is irrelevant. Despite his poor FT shooting, he STILL scores 1.5 PPS. Imagine how good he could be if he improved his FT shooting.

He's that efficient because 80% of his shots are dunks and layups.

100%*

It's still pretty good.

Yeah, for a limited offensive player it is.

The question becomes do you want to pay said player (who is also an average defender) $23 million over the next two years?

At least he doesn't bring the ball back down and let guards swipe at it before going up for a dunk or layup like Perk does.

[CelticsFan9]

For all your talk about him producing points more than most NBA players, don't you think he would've played more?

Are you implying that he doesn't produce more points per shot than most NBA players? The statistics say otherwise. Yes, his FT% is HORRIBLE, but, again, he produces more points per shot than most NBA players, so it really is irrelevant. Despite his poor FT shooting, he STILL scores 1.5 PPS. Imagine how good he could be if he improved his FT shooting.

He's that efficient because 80% of his shots are dunks and layups.

100%*

It's still pretty good.

Yeah, for a limited offensive player it is.

The question becomes do you want to pay said player (who is also an average defender) $23 million over the next two years?

At least he doesn't bring the ball back down and let guards swipe at it before going up for a dunk or layup like Perk does.

What's your point?

He's still incredibly limited offensively.

[hpantazo]

For all your talk about him producing points more than most NBA players, don't you think he would've played more?

Are you implying that he doesn't produce more points per shot than most NBA players? The statistics say otherwise. Yes, his FT% is HORRIBLE, but, again, he produces more points per shot than most NBA players, so it really is irrelevant. Despite his poor FT shooting, he STILL scores 1.5 PPS. Imagine how good he could be if he improved his FT shooting.

He's that efficient because 80% of his shots are dunks and layups.

100%*

It's still pretty good.

Yeah, for a limited offensive player it is.

The question becomes do you want to pay said player (who is also an average defender) $23 million over the next two years?

At least he doesn't bring the ball back down and let guards swipe at it before going up for a dunk or layup like Perk does.

What's your point?

He's still incredibly limited offensively.

No one is arguing that he's Hakeem or even Roy Hibbert. My point is most celtics fans loved Perk, and Jordan is a better version of Perk. More athletic and slightly fewer flaws on offense. For anyone arguing that he's not worth the money he's being paid, well, neither is Perkins, and besides, we aren't going to re-sign Jordan to a similar contract once his deal expires soon, we will trade him.

[boscel33]

I mentioned it earlier, but one thing getting Jordan does is allow the c's to look at SG in the draft nd there are a couple of nice ones in the 16 range.

[Celtics Insider]

Again, does it matter WHY he is efficient?

[connor]

I think we get Jordan and i like it. I want him. He is very long, athletic, and is young! He is only 24. If you get a coach that'll play him he will be a good player.

The deal is not happening with Bledsoe and rightfully so. I don't want Jordan on this team. I don't understand  why you like him so much .

lol you guys are so confrontational i am not saying the guy is the next Ewing or Hakeem. But he helps us move forward. He fills the gap of a big man. He is a capable starter in this league.

We aren't winning anything next year with the team we have so we have to move on and gather pieces. Nobody thought Perk was a starting center in this league but he played D and would rebound. But his Avg's are just like Deandre. If we eventually add better players around him he fills the need of Defense, Rebounding, And finishing around the rim.


For a fan base that loved Perk so much there isn't much different between the two except Jordan is way more athletic.

Nobody is saying Jordan sucks (or at least I'm not).

What I'm saying is he's nowhere near worth the money he's getting paid, and for a team that, as you said, isn't "winning anything next year," his contract kills the rebuilding process (and how fast it goes).

How does his contract kill the rebuilding process? I think you are confusing rebuilding with reloading. Rebuilding takes time and is about collecting assets and developing players then using your  assets and cap room to bring in better talent. Reloading is all about having cap room to bring in the next piece to put you over the top.

We aren't going to be competing for a championship this year or the next when Jordan is making 11m and 12m. If we keep KG that cap space is tied up next year just the same. Jordan is a very tradeable commodity. No you might not be getting anything particularly spectacular back for him, but easily expiring contracts and a pick or two.

We are not stuck with Jordan like he is one of those untradeable contracts that you have to pair with picks/assets to get rid of, nor are we using him as the centerpiece of our rebuild if we get him. He just gives us more OPTIONS. With KG we can run it back and let him retire getting nothing in return or we can trade hm to LAC. With Jordan we have far more options (develop him for the future, move him for picks/expirings, pair him with other assets in a larger deal).

We are rebuilding. We need flexibility.

I know what the difference is, and Jordan is a problem for rebuilding teams (which is what I expect us to be next year).

Jordan, despite what many believe, isn't a great trade asset.  He was reportedly offered straight up for a 37-year-old Kevin Garnett (who, for all we know, could fall off a cliff next year).  That shows his value, which in my opinion, isn't all that great.

Sure, the Celtics could bring him to Boston and try to develop him, but I think his ceiling is nothing more than a poor man's Tyson Chandler.  There's nothing wrong with that, but I don't see that as being a valuable building block.

Factor that in with the fact that he's not a great trade asset, and you have a problem on your hands.

I'm not saying he is a GREAT trade asset, but he most certainly is an asset and he is most certainly trade-able.

As I said you aren't going to be getting an impressive return for him (unless he develops more than is anticipated), but you will get a return nonetheless, which is more than we would get by letting KG retire. Limited 7ft athletic centers still come at a premium in the NBA and there are plenty of teams that could use a poor man's Tyson Chandler in their pursuit of a championship, especially if he is an expiring deal.

If its a deal that is Jordan straight up for KG then I'm not interested, but combined with Bledsoe who is a much more trade-able NBA commodity the Celtics could easily come out the other end of the deal with additional assets.

And on top of all of that if Jordan is as bad as people make him out to be (and maybe he is) wouldn't that make him better for a rebuilding squad than KG? We would end up with a better pick rather than an 8th seed and another mid-late teens 2014 pick.

I really don't understand why people are so against this trade. The only alternative is keeping KG and letting him retire at the end of the season. If there were other trade options out there for him then you'd have more to consider. But in this case its this or nothing and some extra late picks and some guys you can trade at the deadline is FAR better than nothing.

[Casperian]

How does his contract kill the rebuilding process? I think you are confusing rebuilding with reloading. Rebuilding takes time and is about collecting assets and developing players then using your  assets and cap room to bring in better talent. Reloading is all about having cap room to bring in the next piece to put you over the top.

We aren't going to be competing for a championship this year or the next when Jordan is making 11m and 12m. If we keep KG that cap space is tied up next year just the same. Jordan is a very tradeable commodity. No you might not be getting anything particularly spectacular back for him, but easily expiring contracts and a pick or two.

We are not stuck with Jordan like he is one of those untradeable contracts that you have to pair with picks/assets to get rid of, nor are we using him as the centerpiece of our rebuild if we get him. He just gives us more OPTIONS. With KG we can run it back and let him retire getting nothing in return or we can trade hm to LAC. With Jordan we have far more options (develop him for the future, move him for picks/expirings, pair him with other assets in a larger deal).

We are rebuilding. We need flexibility.

Pretty much this, and who knows where his trade value around the league will be after a year in which he´s heavily featured on offense?

In theory, any athletic 26-year-old center with NBA experience should have no trouble finding suitors. Theres always someone "just one big man short of competing".

[BballTim]

Jordan, despite what many believe, isn't a great trade asset.  He was reportedly offered straight up for a 37-year-old Kevin Garnett (who, for all we know, could fall off a cliff next year).  That shows his value, which in my opinion, isn't all that great.

  I wouldn't bet the farm on KG falling off a cliff next year.

[kgainez]

Jordan, despite what many believe, isn't a great trade asset.  He was reportedly offered straight up for a 37-year-old Kevin Garnett (who, for all we know, could fall off a cliff next year).  That shows his value, which in my opinion, isn't all that great.

  I wouldn't bet the farm on KG falling off a cliff next year.

ankle spurs
absolutely would...at least a dip in his performance

Ray Allen is just now returning to the Ray Allen that we knew after his ankle spurs in 2011/12

[BleedGreen1989]

Is there a way a mod can merge most of these Celtics/clippers threads? It seems like there are about 8 and they are all on pretty much the same topic.

[Celtics4ever]

  I wouldn't bet the farm on KG falling off a cliff next year.

He hasn't fell off the cliff but has started to slowly tumble down it.   He is still a good player but is not immune from the rigors of age.

[Meadowlark_Scal]

Why should WE be the provider for a new super team for doc to run......?