Pops is proof that Doc isn't all that great

[Yogi]

Um, Doc has taken the Celtics further than the Spurs every year since 2008 except this year.  You know the year, where the Spurs were fully healthy and the Celtics are missing 3 of their rotation players including their best player.  If anything, Pop is the measuring stick that best illustrates Doc's greatness.

It's true, I bet no one had a thread like this when the top seeded spurs lost in 6 to the grizz in 2011.

Folks, Ginobili was injured. In contrast, was our Paul Pierce injured?

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/666719-nba-playoff-schedule-times-channels-and-predictions-for-2011-nba-playoffs/entry/63743-2011-nba-playoff-predictions-will-manu-ginobili-injury-cost-spurs-first-round

What?  We were missing 14+ feet just in O'Neals, not to mention a host of other injuries.  How about Jeff Green, Avery Bradley and Chris Wilcox the year after that?  How about Rondo's elbow against the Heat?  Perkins in 2010?

[esel1000]

Um, Doc has taken the Celtics further than the Spurs every year since 2008 except this year.  You know the year, where the Spurs were fully healthy and the Celtics are missing 3 of their rotation players including their best player.  If anything, Pop is the measuring stick that best illustrates Doc's greatness.

It's true, I bet no one had a thread like this when the top seeded spurs lost in 6 to the grizz in 2011.

Folks, Ginobili was injured. In contrast, was our Paul Pierce injured?

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/666719-nba-playoff-schedule-times-channels-and-predictions-for-2011-nba-playoffs/entry/63743-2011-nba-playoff-predictions-will-manu-ginobili-injury-cost-spurs-first-round

Who cares? How injured have the Celtics been every year since 2009? Not to mention Memphis didn't have Gay that year and back in 2011 he was considered the best player on that team.

The Spurs were never a stacked team. Lose a Ginobili and you're not going far in the playoffs. In '09, we lost KG. Afterwards, we had PP, RR, KG, and even brick laying Ray for much of the time but despite having key personnel around, Doc's plan was to simply to rely on Paul or Kevin getting the ball and finishing it off. I believe many coaches can win with PP and KG.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/SAS/2011.html

I don't really agree I think that's a pretty good team right there regardless. I'm not saying losing Ginobli wasn't a big loss but we're still talking about a #1 seed vs a #8 seed with its own key injuries. Truth of the matter is the Spurs were outplayed that series. Would Ginobli have helped a lot? Of course. Is Pop a great coach still? Of course, one of the best in recent history.

Is it fair to criticize Doc based on team performance when the C's have also had a number of bad injuries since 2009 and have made it to at least the second round of the playoffs every year prior to this one since 2008 with one title, a game 7 finals appearance, and two ECF?

If Pop gets off easy because of key injuries Doc should as well.

[NocturnalRebel]

Um, Doc has taken the Celtics further than the Spurs every year since 2008 except this year.  You know the year, where the Spurs were fully healthy and the Celtics are missing 3 of their rotation players including their best player.  If anything, Pop is the measuring stick that best illustrates Doc's greatness.

It's true, I bet no one had a thread like this when the top seeded spurs lost in 6 to the grizz in 2011.

Folks, Ginobili was injured. In contrast, was our Paul Pierce injured?

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/666719-nba-playoff-schedule-times-channels-and-predictions-for-2011-nba-playoffs/entry/63743-2011-nba-playoff-predictions-will-manu-ginobili-injury-cost-spurs-first-round

Who cares? How injured have the Celtics been every year since 2009? Not to mention Memphis didn't have Gay that year and back in 2011 he was considered the best player on that team.

The Spurs were never a stacked team. Lose a Ginobili and you're not going far in the playoffs. In '09, we lost KG. Afterwards, we had PP, RR, KG, and even brick laying Ray for much of the time but despite having key personnel around, Doc's plan was to simply to rely on Paul or Kevin getting the ball and finishing it off. I believe many coaches can win with PP and KG.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/SAS/2011.html

I don't really agree I think that's a pretty good team right there regardless. I'm not saying losing Ginobli wasn't a big loss but we're still talking about a #1 seed vs a #8 seed with its own key injuries. Truth of the matter is the Spurs were outplayed that series. Would Ginobli have helped a lot? Of course. Is Pop a great coach still? Of course, one of the best in recent history.

Is it fair to criticize Doc based on team performance when the C's have also had a number of bad injuries since 2009 and have made it to at least the second round of the playoffs every year prior to this one since 2008 with one title, a game 7 finals appearance, and two ECF?

If Pop gets off easy because of key injuries Doc should as well.

I agree with this.

[TitleMaster]

I believe that had we lost Paul Pierce, we would also have lost in the 1st (or 2nd) rounds of '09 till '12, regardless of added injuries to others.

[Eja117]

So is Kool-Aid proof that Fruit Smack wasn't all that great either?

Most beverages prove Fruit smack wasn't great. Tang even proves it

[TheTruthFot18]

TBH Pops has essentially had the same big 3 for a long time without any real rifts. Their bond is much older than the current big 3 here. If doc had 10-12 years with the same group as we have (had) I'm sure he could do just as well.

Not to mention a KG knee injury, a Perk injury, and a questionable 2012 ecf game 7 cost us three possible titles.

[fairweatherfan]

Pops is proof that every coach who's not Pops isn't all that great.  It's between him and Phil for best coach of the modern era.

[RJ87]

Um, Doc has taken the Celtics further than the Spurs every year since 2008 except this year.  You know the year, where the Spurs were fully healthy and the Celtics are missing 3 of their rotation players including their best player.  If anything, Pop is the measuring stick that best illustrates Doc's greatness.

It's true, I bet no one had a thread like this when the top seeded spurs lost in 6 to the grizz in 2011.

Or how they lost 4 straight last year to OKC after going up in the series.

I don't get the constant need to compare Doc to Pop or any other coach. People constantly try to tear Doc down, but he's had success here. Have we not won a banner? Have we need been back to the Finals since? Did we not make it 7 games deep in the EFC last year? The way I see it, we've had some pretty good years under Doc despite the crazy injuries to key guys. If KG's knee doesn't become an issue, we likely would have at least one more title. I think it's a testament to Doc that he keeps his guys engaged despite the injuries and set backs that other teams may hide behind.

People can say Doc has had "stacked" teams, but stacked teams does not equal automatic success. Look no further than this year's Lakers team.

Oh, and the Rondo/Parker comparison doesn't hold any weight either.  Have you not seen Rondo in the playoffs the past few years? The short term memories around here are something else.

[Smutzy#9]

Pop is the best coach in the league. Has been for quite a few years now. He is the measuring stick any coach should be measured against. Other great coaches in the league Doc Thibs Karl Hollins

[NocturnalRebel]

So tha OP's argument is despite us winning in 2008 anyway, Doc isn't that great because we didn't go 4-1 against two different teams?

[wahz]

Anyone who thinks the Danny-Doc combo has been great is a complete fool. There have been horrible draft picks, terrible free agent pick ups, poor free agent contracts, awful rotations, and so on. It's impossible to determine who is most at fault for not taking the title team and building on it properly. But if greatness is a "10" they probably should get close to an "8." And they came really close to winning a 2nd title. With either that title or the title they might have had the year they traded Perk, it would be hard to deny they were great. That is what separates greatness from not. John Landy broke the 4 minute mile shortly after Roger Bannister did but few recall him. He was a step short in some head to head battles. One inch can be the difference. And this team had it in the bag to win 2-3 titles and has one. That is not great.

[NocturnalRebel]

Anyone who thinks the Danny-Doc combo has been great is a complete fool. There have been horrible draft picks, terrible free agent pick ups, poor free agent contracts, awful rotations, and so on. It's impossible to determine who is most at fault for not taking the title team and building on it properly. But if greatness is a "10" they probably should get close to an "8." And they came really close to winning a 2nd title. With either that title or the title they might have had the year they traded Perk, it would be hard to deny they were great. That is what separates greatness from not. John Landy broke the 4 minute mile shortly after Roger Bannister did but few recall him. He was a step short in some head to head battles. One inch can be the difference. And this team had it in the bag to win 2-3 titles and has one. That is not great.

You forgot to mention injuries among your list of failures within tha Danny/Doc combo.

[cltc5]

Pop uses all of his players and gets the best out of them for the time they are in there and they all know their roles because Pop adjusts the gameplan accordingly.

This is Doc Rivers:

[TitleMaster]

Oh, and the Rondo/Parker comparison doesn't hold any weight either.  Have you not seen Rondo in the playoffs the past few years? The short term memories around here are something else.

Yes, Rondo has more innate talent than Parker, however, under Pops, Parker's matured into a true combo PG, much like our JoJo White of yesteryear. And thus, he works quite well in a team environment. Many of Rondo's contributions were his eagle-eye assists and mini-dream shake under the basket. The 5-on-4 defenses against Rondo did work when he wasn't able to get his layups going.

Thus,

if Rondo > Parker
Pierce > Ginobili (esp post-2007 injury era)
Garnett ~ Duncan
& Ray Ray > next best Spur's player


Then Pops has clearly less to work with than Doc.

[timobusa]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AcegYF_Ti78

I WANT SOME NASTY!