2013-2014 Should Be A "See What We Have" Year

[PhoSita]

Aside from wanting to avoid feeling like I'm living a Celtics-fan version of "Groundhogs Day," the main reason I would prefer to see Pierce and Garnett go elsewhere this off-season is that while this team has a decent stable of relatively young assets, we can't really say for sure what we have on our hands here.

Jeff Green

What would Jeff Green look like if you started him at small forward for an entire season and played him 36+ minutes a night?  Could he continue the kind of production we saw from him this spring if he an undisputed top scoring option on the team, with nobody to defer to except perhaps Rondo?  There's so much controversy among the fanbase over what sort of player Green really is, with both staunch believers and outspoken naysayers in large, vocal numbers.  Whether it's to up his trade value or to see if he's a guy we want to have as one of our building blocks moving forward, we need to know what we've got in Green.

Avery Bradley

How would Avery Bradley perform if he had a full, healthy training camp and started from the very beginning of the season exclusively at shooting guard and played nothing but shooting guard all season, 32+ minutes a night? Can he be a consistent enough scorer to not be a liability on the offensive end?  Can he adapt so that opponents can't game plan to neutralize his defensive intensity by getting him in foul trouble early?

Jared Sullinger

Sullinger will need to be brought back gradually, but once he's healthy, what sort of player can he be if he were placed in a starting role, playing 28-32 minutes a night or more?  What sort of production could we get out of him?

The Center Position

Who is going to play center for this team moving forward?  I'd like to see the team draft a center, either with #16 or with another pick they acquire in the first round, sign a veteran center over the summer for relatively cheap (e.g. Dalembert) and then have the veteran, the rookie, and Fab Melo split the center minutes three ways and compete for time all season. 

Style of Play

Can this team play an up-tempo style?  Yesterday I read that Doc has wanted to play an up-tempo style with this team for the past couple of years, but he hasn't had the personnel.  Well, he sort of has, if you look at most of the roster -- Rondo, Bradley, Green, Lee, Barbosa / Crawford, even Terry; these are guys who could play up-tempo.  But as long as Garnett and Pierce are the focal points of the team, they will fall back on the half-court, slow it down, milk the clock to get Pierce an iso shot or work Garnett free for a mid-range jumper offense they've gone to repeatedly for the past 6 years.

A secondary part of this point is the supporting cast -- can guys like Courtney Lee, Terrence Williams, Jordan Crawford, and Shavlik Randolph, who are probably all better suited to a quicker, more athletic style of play, fit in better on this team and carve out roles for themselves moving forward if the team plays more to their strengths?

Rondo

Most important of all, what would Rondo look like if (once he's healthy) he plays every game knowing he's the longest-tenured, most accomplished Celtic on the floor at any given time?  What would we see if this is finally, truly Rondo's team?  I know that this year was supposed to be the year that happened, but I don't believe Rondo will ever play like this is really his team until Pierce and Garnett are gone.



This team is no longer a contender.  We have some good players on this team, still, however.  We even have a guy who could probably be on the fringes of the MVP conversation if he really played up to his dominant potential for the majority of the season (doesn't even have to be every night).  However, we won't really be able to fully assess the value of the pieces we have until the team moves away from trying to build around and compete for a title with Pierce and Garnett, in my opinion.

It's time for us to see what we have.

[lightspeed5]

the team healthy with rondo is always a contender

[PhoSita]

the team healthy with rondo is always a contender

Well, I'd like to test that theory.  Would this team be one of the top teams in the East with Rondo as the undisputed best player and leader of the team, with a roster and style of play molded to his preferences?

[BballTim]

  The problem with getting rid of KG and PP to see what you have with the other players is if you have something good with them you'll realize that they'd have probably been serious contenders if you'd kept KG and PP.

[PhoSita]

  The problem with getting rid of KG and PP to see what you have with the other players is if you have something good with them you'll realize that they'd have probably been serious contenders if you'd kept KG and PP.

See, I disagree.

The main premise of my argument here is that we can't know what we'd have with these players unless and until Pierce and Garnett are gone.

We know what these players are when they are playing alongside Pierce and Garnett, in this system that is tailored to the style of play that Garnett and Pierce want to play.  We know what it looks like when this team plays like Pierce and Garnett are the main guys.  We know what to expect.

Sure, guys like Bradley and Sullinger will probably show some improvement regardless, but I assert that we can't really know what we have until we move forward and put them in those larger roles.

I am past believing this team, with Pierce and Garnett as key pieces, can be a contender unless you have an MVP-caliber player (in addition to Rondo) next to them.

[fandrew]

  The problem with getting rid of KG and PP to see what you have with the other players is if you have something good with them you'll realize that they'd have probably been serious contenders if you'd kept KG and PP.

See, I disagree.

The main premise of my argument here is that we can't know what we'd have with these players unless and until Pierce and Garnett are gone.

We know what these players are when they are playing alongside Pierce and Garnett, in this system that is tailored to the style of play that Garnett and Pierce want to play.  We know what it looks like when this team plays like Pierce and Garnett are the main guys.  We know what to expect.

Sure, guys like Bradley and Sullinger will probably show some improvement regardless, but I assert that we can't really know what we have until we move forward and put them in those larger roles.

I am past believing this team, with Pierce and Garnett as key pieces, can be a contender unless you have an MVP-caliber player (in addition to Rondo) next to them.

I think that you make an interesting argument, but personally, if we are doing this, I would rather just keep KG and PP, and have them come off the bench for 20-25 minutes a game. That way we have the see as we go, but with a veteran bench.

Also, I have been a big fan of acquiring Dalembert for some time. I think he would be a great fit, but we would need to find another volume scorer, unless Sully shows that he can score 17+ points a game.

And for that matter, I don't think that Sully needs to be eased into things. The guy is easing into things now, and will be able to play full on by the time training camp starts. He just needs to work on strength/conditioning, his rebounding, and one or two go-to moves.

Also I think that Doc needs to re-evaluate his playbook to play to the strength of his younger players. 

[BleedGreen1989]

I don't like it because you're essentially just playing the middle of the road. You're not competing for a title nor are you rebuilding.

At least with Pierce and Garnett you can look the part of a contender. We all know its far fetched but at least you have a chosen direction.

[PhoSita]

I don't like it because you're essentially just playing the middle of the road. You're not competing for a title nor are you rebuilding.

Well, part of my thinking is that we're not going to just outright tank with this group of players unless we give away the key guys (Rondo, Green, Sullinger, Bradley) for pennies on the dollar.

I'm not opposed to trading Rondo, Green, Bradley, or even Sullinger, if the right deal is out there.  But each of them needs to build their value because for varying reasons none of them is really at a "sell high" point right now.  So I think you need to take this step of seeing what we have and maybe then trying to shop some of these guys before we can really get down to rebuilding.

I don't really believe that a team with Rondo, Bradley, Green, Sullinger, and "Veteran Center" is going to be all that good anyway.  I think most likely that team wins 30-35 games.  Which is not as good from a rebuilding perspective as 20-30 games, but if it allows you to really inflate Rondo and Green's trade value so you can ship them out for younger assets or even a good pick in next year's draft, that would work out pretty well.


All that said, nobody is more enthusiastic than me about dumping Terry, Lee, and Bass for expiring contracts / minor assets this off-season to free up future payroll and roster flexibility.

[PhoSita]

And for that matter, I don't think that Sully needs to be eased into things. The guy is easing into things now, and will be able to play full on by the time training camp starts. He just needs to work on strength/conditioning, his rebounding, and one or two go-to moves.

Also I think that Doc needs to re-evaluate his playbook to play to the strength of his younger players.

I want to address your last two points here.

First of all, I agree with you about Sullinger, based on what we saw in the first half of this season.  Except for the small detail that he'll be working his way back from getting surgery on his back, so there's really no choice -- he's not going to be 100% at the start of the season.  I expect that he'll be able to play full minutes and be mostly back to where he was by mid-way through the season, though.

Second, I like Doc as a coach, but I don't trust him to really adjust his system or his coaching style until Pierce and Garnett are gone.  I think he goes with his instincts and in spite of his reason sometimes I think those instincts tell him to lean on his veterans, particularly Pierce and Garnett, and have the team play to their strengths, which is not always the best thing for the rest of the players on the team.

[LatterDayCelticsfan]

I dear it could be worse. I fear that in the current Eastern Conference this team could contrive to win 40-45 games and blunder into the playoffs as an 8th seed. :-(

[PhoSita]

I dear it could be worse. I fear that in the current Eastern Conference this team could contrive to win 40-45 games and blunder into the playoffs as an 8th seed. :-(

That wouldn't be the worst thing in the world, though, because if that happens it would mean that these guys, put into larger roles, have stepped up pretty admirably.  That would require Rondo playing at an All-Star level and Jeff Green performing as a credible 1st option. 

That would set Danny Ainge up pretty nicely to make some deals for younger assets next summer and beyond.

Trading Rondo and / or some of current younger assets is the only way we're going to get a nice pick in next year's (supposedly) loaded draft.  Tanking for a top 5 pick isn't really in the cards.

The worst thing that could happen is we bring the same basic group back with minor changes and they end up as a bottom 4 seed again and again get bounced in the first round.  That would be pretty much a complete waste of a season.

[CelticConcourse]

the team healthy with rondo is always a contender

I agree.

I can see Rondo making magic with Green. If they both play to their potentials, I wouldn't be surprised if we were a top-4 seed in the East next year. It might be extremely overconfident but Rondo playing at MVP caliber, Bradley playing at DPOY caliber and knowing his strengths, Green playing at an All-Star, 24ppg level, Bass playing at his 2011-12 level, Lee playing his 2011-12 level, Jared Sullinger playing at a 12-10 level, Terry playing at a top-5 SMOTY level, Doc coaching at a COTY level, blablabla

[Who]

I don't think you need to get rid of Pierce and Garnett to open the doors for Bradley and Sullinger. Those two youngsters can come on just fine while playing alongside Pierce and Garnett. Better even. They will develop better with KG/Pierce than without. Sullinger in particular. Having Garnett alongside Sully is a big help to him. Bradley's effectiveness is more tied to Rondo, offensively at least.

Jeff Green is the only one whose situation changes positively by moving Pierce and Garnett. Pierce really. Garnett is a help to Green but Pierce is in the way. Forces the team into unorthodox lineups in order to get J.Green big minutes. Anyway, I have little to no confidence in Jeff Green so I couldn't care less about moving out two quality performers like KG and Pierce to help J.Green out.

[SparzWizard]

Ultimately, I see that we're gonna become the next Atlanta Hawks or Milwaukee Bucks of the East with that lineup.

Unless you bring in a Center that's similar to a Dwight Howard-caliber player minus the ego and preinjury.

[BballTim]

  The problem with getting rid of KG and PP to see what you have with the other players is if you have something good with them you'll realize that they'd have probably been serious contenders if you'd kept KG and PP.

See, I disagree.

The main premise of my argument here is that we can't know what we'd have with these players unless and until Pierce and Garnett are gone.

We know what these players are when they are playing alongside Pierce and Garnett, in this system that is tailored to the style of play that Garnett and Pierce want to play.  We know what it looks like when this team plays like Pierce and Garnett are the main guys.  We know what to expect.

  I don't think that's really true. We had two different styles of play last year (before and after Rondo's injury) and PP and KG were playing during both of them. You can play a more uptempo style with players like Rondo/Green/Bradley/Lee even if you have KG and PP on the court,and KG's half court game fits in very well with Rondo's.

I am past believing this team, with Pierce and Garnett as key pieces, can be a contender unless you have an MVP-caliber player (in addition to Rondo) next to them.

  I'd wait and see how much PP and KG regress before I agreed with that. If all our players are healthy it would be the equivalent of adding Green, Bradley and Sully to the team that almost went to the finals last year.