Is Tony Parker the Best PG in the League?

[Celtics18]

Using NBA.COM's efficiency ratings, I tried to come up with an objective way to look at who have been the most successful guards in the NBA during the playoffs over the course of the last five seasons. 

I'll admit that the reason I started with the 2009 playoffs is because that was the year that Rajon Rondo became a superstar playoff performer.  I wanted to see how our point guard stacked up against other elite guards during that time span. 

Anyway, I multiplied each player's playoff efficiency rating by the number of games each player played in a given year's playoffs, then I added all the yearly totals for each player together, giving the total playoff efficiency since 2009.  The total playoff efficiency divided by the total number of playoff games played over that stretch gives each player's average playoff efficiency over this time span. 

Here it is:

Kobe Bryant:          Average:  24.5, total games played: 68, total: 1,666
Dwayne Wade:        Average: 22.0, total games played: 70, total: 1,540
Rajon Rondo:         Average:  22.8, total games played: 66, total: 1,504.8
Tony Parker:           Average: 19.4, total games played: 49, total: 950.6
Russell Westbrook: Average: 20.9, total games played: 45, total: 940.5
James Harden:        Average: 18.0, total games played: 43, total: 774
Chris Paul:             Average:  23.3, total games played: 28, total: 652.4
Derrick Rose:         Average:  21.2, total games played: 29, total: 614.8
Deron Williams:     Average:  23.4, total games played:  22, total: 514.8
Steph Curry:          Average:   22.5, total games played: 12, total:  270

Not that I necessarily disagree with this list, or this way of ranking, but surely it's slanted towards teams that play more games in the playoffs--which is indicative of longer series as well as deeper runs.

Absolutely, it is.  But, in the end, whether or not someone can help lead a team on deep playoff runs is one of the main ways that we judge a player's worth. 

I mean, look at the current success of guys like Tony Parker and Roy Hibbert.  They are obviously totally different players at totally different stages of their respective careers, but these playoffs have surely upped their perceived status  considerably.

Tony Parker, while highly respected for what he's done over his career, would never have gotten this many responses calling him the "best point guard in the league" before these playoffs began. 

Roy Hibbert will surely be considered one of the best centers in the league going forward.  I don't think many would have considered him in that realm before this post-season.   

[Celtics18]

Using NBA.COM's efficiency ratings, I tried to come up with an objective way to look at who have been the most successful guards in the NBA during the playoffs over the course of the last five seasons. 

I'll admit that the reason I started with the 2009 playoffs is because that was the year that Rajon Rondo became a superstar playoff performer.  I wanted to see how our point guard stacked up against other elite guards during that time span. 

Anyway, I multiplied each player's playoff efficiency rating by the number of games each player played in a given year's playoffs, then I added all the yearly totals for each player together, giving the total playoff efficiency since 2009.  The total playoff efficiency divided by the total number of playoff games played over that stretch gives each player's average playoff efficiency over this time span. 

Here it is:

Kobe Bryant:          Average:  24.5, total games played: 68, total: 1,666
Dwayne Wade:        Average: 22.0, total games played: 70, total: 1,540
Rajon Rondo:         Average:  22.8, total games played: 66, total: 1,504.8
Tony Parker:           Average: 19.4, total games played: 49, total: 950.6
Russell Westbrook: Average: 20.9, total games played: 45, total: 940.5
James Harden:        Average: 18.0, total games played: 43, total: 774
Chris Paul:             Average:  23.3, total games played: 28, total: 652.4
Derrick Rose:         Average:  21.2, total games played: 29, total: 614.8
Deron Williams:     Average:  23.4, total games played:  22, total: 514.8
Steph Curry:          Average:   22.5, total games played: 12, total:  270

Not that I necessarily disagree with this list, or this way of ranking, but surely it's slanted towards teams that play more games in the playoffs--which is indicative of longer series as well as deeper runs.

Yeah but even that list shows that Chris Paul and Deron Williams on a per game basis are better PG's than Rajon Rondo and Steph Curry isn't that far behind.

True.  But, it also shows that Rondo has been better on a per game basis in the playoffs than Rose, Westbrook, and Parker, and that he, in turn, isn't that far behind Paul and Williams.  And, of course, that he's had much more total success in the playoffs since 2009 than any of them. 

[Boris Badenov]

Using NBA.COM's efficiency ratings, I tried to come up with an objective way to look at who have been the most successful guards in the NBA during the playoffs over the course of the last five seasons. 

I'll admit that the reason I started with the 2009 playoffs is because that was the year that Rajon Rondo became a superstar playoff performer.  I wanted to see how our point guard stacked up against other elite guards during that time span. 

Anyway, I multiplied each player's playoff efficiency rating by the number of games each player played in a given year's playoffs, then I added all the yearly totals for each player together, giving the total playoff efficiency since 2009.  The total playoff efficiency divided by the total number of playoff games played over that stretch gives each player's average playoff efficiency over this time span. 

Here it is:

Kobe Bryant:          Average:  24.5, total games played: 68, total: 1,666
Dwayne Wade:        Average: 22.0, total games played: 70, total: 1,540
Rajon Rondo:         Average:  22.8, total games played: 66, total: 1,504.8
Tony Parker:           Average: 19.4, total games played: 49, total: 950.6
Russell Westbrook: Average: 20.9, total games played: 45, total: 940.5
James Harden:        Average: 18.0, total games played: 43, total: 774
Chris Paul:             Average:  23.3, total games played: 28, total: 652.4
Derrick Rose:         Average:  21.2, total games played: 29, total: 614.8
Deron Williams:     Average:  23.4, total games played:  22, total: 514.8
Steph Curry:          Average:   22.5, total games played: 12, total:  270

I like that you calculated the weighted average.

Interesting though, if you use ESPN's PER, you get the opposite result:

Rondo 66 GP, TPER 1274, PER/GP = 19.31
Parker 49 GP, TPER 1031, PER/GP = 21.03

Some of this seems to be because PER is less dependent on minutes played. If you use NBA.com's efficiency per 48, you get something significantly closer:

Rondo 26.53
Parker 25.34

The upshot? Kind of a mixed bag. NBA.com's ranking does seem to favor players like Rondo, while PER favors players like Parker. But, I think a lot of that is coming from NBA.com's greater valuation of players who play a lot of minutes.

Whether you think guys who play many minutes are more valuable than guys who don't is probably a subjective thing, at least as regards Rondo and Parker. Some of the difference probably comes from the fact that Rondo has had arguably poorer backups, and from Pop's preference to rest his big players. If so, playing fewer minutes can hardly be held against Parker. But I can see the other side of the argument too.

[Celtics18]

Using NBA.COM's efficiency ratings, I tried to come up with an objective way to look at who have been the most successful guards in the NBA during the playoffs over the course of the last five seasons. 

I'll admit that the reason I started with the 2009 playoffs is because that was the year that Rajon Rondo became a superstar playoff performer.  I wanted to see how our point guard stacked up against other elite guards during that time span. 

Anyway, I multiplied each player's playoff efficiency rating by the number of games each player played in a given year's playoffs, then I added all the yearly totals for each player together, giving the total playoff efficiency since 2009.  The total playoff efficiency divided by the total number of playoff games played over that stretch gives each player's average playoff efficiency over this time span. 

Here it is:

Kobe Bryant:          Average:  24.5, total games played: 68, total: 1,666
Dwayne Wade:        Average: 22.0, total games played: 70, total: 1,540
Rajon Rondo:         Average:  22.8, total games played: 66, total: 1,504.8
Tony Parker:           Average: 19.4, total games played: 49, total: 950.6
Russell Westbrook: Average: 20.9, total games played: 45, total: 940.5
James Harden:        Average: 18.0, total games played: 43, total: 774
Chris Paul:             Average:  23.3, total games played: 28, total: 652.4
Derrick Rose:         Average:  21.2, total games played: 29, total: 614.8
Deron Williams:     Average:  23.4, total games played:  22, total: 514.8
Steph Curry:          Average:   22.5, total games played: 12, total:  270

I like that you calculated the weighted average.

Interesting though, if you use ESPN's PER, you get the opposite result:

Rondo 66 GP, TPER 1274, PER/GP = 19.31
Parker 49 GP, TPER 1031, PER/GP = 21.03

Some of this seems to be because PER is less dependent on minutes played. If you use NBA.com's efficiency per 48, you get something significantly closer:

Rondo 26.53
Parker 25.34

The upshot? Kind of a mixed bag. NBA.com's ranking does seem to favor players like Rondo, while PER favors players like Parker. But, I think a lot of that is coming from NBA.com's greater valuation of players who play a lot of minutes.

Whether you think guys who play many minutes are more valuable than guys who don't is probably a subjective thing, at least as regards Rondo and Parker. Some of the difference probably comes from the fact that Rondo has had arguably poorer backups, and from Pop's preference to rest his big players. If so, playing fewer minutes can hardly be held against Parker. But I can see the other side of the argument too.

Good points.  The main reason that I prefer NBA.COM's efficiency ranking to PER is simply because I hate having to weed out all the low minute role players and garbage time minutes getters who sometimes score ridiculously high on those rankings.  The same goes for NBA.COM's per 48 performers. 

I'm sure this is a subjective thing, but for me, a guy who produces big numbers in big minutes is much more valuable than a part time player who produces when he's on the floor, but doesn't play anywhere near starter's minutes.

I submit Chris Andersen as an example.  Both his NBA.COM per 48 and his PER are through the roof for these playoffs.  And, while he's been a very valuable performer for the Heat, I don't think anyone would put him on any lists of the best players in the league. 

[D.o.s.]

Using NBA.COM's efficiency ratings, I tried to come up with an objective way to look at who have been the most successful guards in the NBA during the playoffs over the course of the last five seasons. 

I'll admit that the reason I started with the 2009 playoffs is because that was the year that Rajon Rondo became a superstar playoff performer.  I wanted to see how our point guard stacked up against other elite guards during that time span. 

Anyway, I multiplied each player's playoff efficiency rating by the number of games each player played in a given year's playoffs, then I added all the yearly totals for each player together, giving the total playoff efficiency since 2009.  The total playoff efficiency divided by the total number of playoff games played over that stretch gives each player's average playoff efficiency over this time span. 

Here it is:

Kobe Bryant:          Average:  24.5, total games played: 68, total: 1,666
Dwayne Wade:        Average: 22.0, total games played: 70, total: 1,540
Rajon Rondo:         Average:  22.8, total games played: 66, total: 1,504.8
Tony Parker:           Average: 19.4, total games played: 49, total: 950.6
Russell Westbrook: Average: 20.9, total games played: 45, total: 940.5
James Harden:        Average: 18.0, total games played: 43, total: 774
Chris Paul:             Average:  23.3, total games played: 28, total: 652.4
Derrick Rose:         Average:  21.2, total games played: 29, total: 614.8
Deron Williams:     Average:  23.4, total games played:  22, total: 514.8
Steph Curry:          Average:   22.5, total games played: 12, total:  270

Not that I necessarily disagree with this list, or this way of ranking, but surely it's slanted towards teams that play more games in the playoffs--which is indicative of longer series as well as deeper runs.

Yeah but even that list shows that Chris Paul and Deron Williams on a per game basis are better PG's than Rajon Rondo and Steph Curry isn't that far behind.

True.  But, it also shows that Rondo has been better on a per game basis in the playoffs than Rose, Westbrook, and Parker, and that he, in turn, isn't that far behind Paul and Williams.  And, of course, that he's had much more total success in the playoffs since 2009 than any of them.

I'd take everyone mentioned in that list as my starting PG with no questions asked, but I'm picking D-Will last on that list.

Totally unscientific, of course.

[action781]

Ha, of course I start off this thread by coming to the conclusion that what makes Parker the best point guard in the league is something he does that's completely immeasurable and it ends with an extensive conversation in advanced stats.

Ha! 

What I haven't seen mentioned yet is how Tony Parker runs his man off about 70 high pick and rolls per game.  Often times it is multiple pick and rolls in a single possession.  These are such difficult and strenuous plays for a defense to defend against so frequently (especially for the player guarding Parker) when run with players that are such threats and are so fluent in it.

[Celtics18]

Using NBA.COM's efficiency ratings, I tried to come up with an objective way to look at who have been the most successful guards in the NBA during the playoffs over the course of the last five seasons. 

I'll admit that the reason I started with the 2009 playoffs is because that was the year that Rajon Rondo became a superstar playoff performer.  I wanted to see how our point guard stacked up against other elite guards during that time span. 

Anyway, I multiplied each player's playoff efficiency rating by the number of games each player played in a given year's playoffs, then I added all the yearly totals for each player together, giving the total playoff efficiency since 2009.  The total playoff efficiency divided by the total number of playoff games played over that stretch gives each player's average playoff efficiency over this time span. 

Here it is:

Kobe Bryant:          Average:  24.5, total games played: 68, total: 1,666
Dwayne Wade:        Average: 22.0, total games played: 70, total: 1,540
Rajon Rondo:         Average:  22.8, total games played: 66, total: 1,504.8
Tony Parker:           Average: 19.4, total games played: 49, total: 950.6
Russell Westbrook: Average: 20.9, total games played: 45, total: 940.5
James Harden:        Average: 18.0, total games played: 43, total: 774
Chris Paul:             Average:  23.3, total games played: 28, total: 652.4
Derrick Rose:         Average:  21.2, total games played: 29, total: 614.8
Deron Williams:     Average:  23.4, total games played:  22, total: 514.8
Steph Curry:          Average:   22.5, total games played: 12, total:  270

Not that I necessarily disagree with this list, or this way of ranking, but surely it's slanted towards teams that play more games in the playoffs--which is indicative of longer series as well as deeper runs.

Yeah but even that list shows that Chris Paul and Deron Williams on a per game basis are better PG's than Rajon Rondo and Steph Curry isn't that far behind.

True.  But, it also shows that Rondo has been better on a per game basis in the playoffs than Rose, Westbrook, and Parker, and that he, in turn, isn't that far behind Paul and Williams.  And, of course, that he's had much more total success in the playoffs since 2009 than any of them.

I'd take everyone mentioned in that list as my starting PG with no questions asked, but I'm picking D-Will last on that list.

Totally unscientific, of course.

Yeah, me too.  Luckily, we've got one of them.

Unscientifically, I'm not a huge D. Williams either. 

[BballTim]

Using NBA.COM's efficiency ratings, I tried to come up with an objective way to look at who have been the most successful guards in the NBA during the playoffs over the course of the last five seasons. 

I'll admit that the reason I started with the 2009 playoffs is because that was the year that Rajon Rondo became a superstar playoff performer.  I wanted to see how our point guard stacked up against other elite guards during that time span. 

Anyway, I multiplied each player's playoff efficiency rating by the number of games each player played in a given year's playoffs, then I added all the yearly totals for each player together, giving the total playoff efficiency since 2009.  The total playoff efficiency divided by the total number of playoff games played over that stretch gives each player's average playoff efficiency over this time span. 

Here it is:

Kobe Bryant:          Average:  24.5, total games played: 68, total: 1,666
Dwayne Wade:        Average: 22.0, total games played: 70, total: 1,540
Rajon Rondo:         Average:  22.8, total games played: 66, total: 1,504.8
Tony Parker:           Average: 19.4, total games played: 49, total: 950.6
Russell Westbrook: Average: 20.9, total games played: 45, total: 940.5
James Harden:        Average: 18.0, total games played: 43, total: 774
Chris Paul:             Average:  23.3, total games played: 28, total: 652.4
Derrick Rose:         Average:  21.2, total games played: 29, total: 614.8
Deron Williams:     Average:  23.4, total games played:  22, total: 514.8
Steph Curry:          Average:   22.5, total games played: 12, total:  270

Not that I necessarily disagree with this list, or this way of ranking, but surely it's slanted towards teams that play more games in the playoffs--which is indicative of longer series as well as deeper runs.

Yeah but even that list shows that Chris Paul and Deron Williams on a per game basis are better PG's than Rajon Rondo and Steph Curry isn't that far behind.

  It shows that their individual production is only slightly better than Rondo's, it doesn't show that they're better point guards.

[CelticConcourse]

Kobe Bryant:          Average:  24.5, total games played: 68, total: 1,666
Dwayne Wade:        Average: 22.0, total games played: 70, total: 1,540
Rajon Rondo:         Average:  22.8, total games played: 66, total: 1,504.8
Tony Parker:           Average: 19.4, total games played: 49, total: 950.6
Russell Westbrook: Average: 20.9, total games played: 45, total: 940.5
James Harden:        Average: 18.0, total games played: 43, total: 774
Chris Paul:             Average:  23.3, total games played: 28, total: 652.4
Derrick Rose:         Average:  21.2, total games played: 29, total: 614.8
Deron Williams:     Average:  23.4, total games played:  22, total: 514.8
Steph Curry:          Average:   22.5, total games played: 12, total:  270

Just looking at the numbers it seems almost obviously flawed given that the total games numbers are essentially in decreasing order. Not to be trusted.

[BballTim]

Kobe Bryant:          Average:  24.5, total games played: 68, total: 1,666
Dwayne Wade:        Average: 22.0, total games played: 70, total: 1,540
Rajon Rondo:         Average:  22.8, total games played: 66, total: 1,504.8
Tony Parker:           Average: 19.4, total games played: 49, total: 950.6
Russell Westbrook: Average: 20.9, total games played: 45, total: 940.5
James Harden:        Average: 18.0, total games played: 43, total: 774
Chris Paul:             Average:  23.3, total games played: 28, total: 652.4
Derrick Rose:         Average:  21.2, total games played: 29, total: 614.8
Deron Williams:     Average:  23.4, total games played:  22, total: 514.8
Steph Curry:          Average:   22.5, total games played: 12, total:  270

Just looking at the numbers it seems almost obviously flawed given that the total games numbers are essentially in decreasing order. Not to be trusted.

  It's sorted on total efficiency, not efficiency per game.

[Celtics18]

Kobe Bryant:          Average:  24.5, total games played: 68, total: 1,666
Dwayne Wade:        Average: 22.0, total games played: 70, total: 1,540
Rajon Rondo:         Average:  22.8, total games played: 66, total: 1,504.8
Ray Allen:               Average:  12.8, total games played: 80, total: 1,023.8
Tony Parker:           Average: 19.4, total games played: 49, total: 950.6
Russell Westbrook: Average: 20.9, total games played: 45, total: 940.5
James Harden:        Average: 18.0, total games played: 43, total: 774
Mario Chalmers:     Average:  10.2, total games played: 71, total: 725.9
Chris Paul:             Average:  23.3, total games played: 28, total: 652.4
Derrick Rose:         Average:  21.2, total games played: 29, total: 614.8
Deron Williams:     Average:  23.4, total games played:  22, total: 514.8
Steph Curry:          Average:   22.5, total games played: 12, total:  270

Just looking at the numbers it seems almost obviously flawed given that the total games numbers are essentially in decreasing order. Not to be trusted.

Not anymore. 

I added another one.