I come with more news from Realgm.. Regarding Paul Pierce

[crimson_stallion]

So its going to be

PP and Bradley for gordon

KG for Jordan and Bledsoe

PP gets bought out joins KG in LA for the MLE

Would like to send Jordan and Bledsoe to Atlanta for Josh Smith

PG: Rondo    / Terry
SG: Gordon  / Lee
SF: Green  /
PF: Smith / Sully
 C: Dieng?/ Bass

I'd rather send Deandre and Bledsloe for Demarcus Cousins.
Would probably take something like 16th pick, Jordan and Bledsloe for DMC.

Or Jeff Green + Jordan for Cousins, maybe give them the 16th pick if they demand it.

Green and Jordan for Cousins is way to much, money wise, and even talent wise.

Green/Jordan=18 mill, Cousins=4 mill. Sac doesn't have enough filler they'd probably want to get rid of.

Plus I don't want to get rid of Green who had a good second half and good play off run just yet. And thats a lot to give for a guy how could blow up at any time and be off the court. Still need Green for offense. He's been pretty clutch in games, he just needs to get a little more consistent.

Agreed.

I have a very high level of confidence that (as long as he plays sufficient minutes) Jeff Green will be a 20+ PPG scorer this upcoming season.  Not only does he score well, he scores at a high percentage from three, from two and from the free throw line.  In addition to all of that he's a very good 1-on-1 defender against elite offensive swingment like Carmello, Lebron, Durant, etc.  There are very few guys in the league who are ~26 years old and have that type of skill set...and he's a good locker room guy who is respectful and seems to get along with everybody.  $9M a year is almost a bargain for that type of player, assuming he can continue to do what he did in the second half of last season.

Not only that, but he showed several signs of being impressively capable in the clutch too, and that is a huge deal.

To consider trading Green out you'd need to get a LOT in return...Cousins isn't enough.  Green played like an All-Star in the second half of the season, so you'd expect an All-Star-like player (i.e. Josh Smith, Al Jefferson) in return...and you'd likely pay for it with a significantly higher contract.

Right now I think Jeff Green is as close to 'untouchable' as it gets for DA, with Rondo being right up there as well.

[RJ87]

Is there really a Gortat vs Cousins debate?  Seriously?

Cousins all the way. If it's one thing we can all agree with about Doc, he's a player's coach and guya like playing for him. Yes, Demarcus has issues, but his raw talent and skill makes him a guy who can be truly special in this league.

Gortat is a roleplayer. Thats it. He's not a building block.

[rondohondo]

Is there really a Gortat vs Cousins debate?  Seriously?

Cousins all the way. If it's one thing we can all agree with about Doc, he's a player's coach and guya like playing for him. Yes, Demarcus has issues, but his raw talent and skill makes him a guy who can be truly special in this league.

Gortat is a roleplayer. Thats it. He's not a building block.

+1

roster of

PG: Rondo
SG: Gordon
SF: Green
PF: Cousins
C:  Dieng

Looks pretty good to me

Probably going to have to give up sully and next years pick to get Cousins. Even that might not be enough , but if it was , you have to do that trade .

[Snakehead]

Is there really a Gortat vs Cousins debate?  Seriously?

Cousins all the way. If it's one thing we can all agree with about Doc, he's a player's coach and guya like playing for him. Yes, Demarcus has issues, but his raw talent and skill makes him a guy who can be truly special in this league.

Gortat is a roleplayer. Thats it. He's not a building block.

+1

roster of

PG: Rondo
SG: Gordon
SF: Green
PF: Cousins
C:  Dieng

Looks pretty good to me

Probably going to have to give up sully and next years pick to get Cousins. Even that might not be enough , but if it was , you have to do that trade .

Definitely not enough, given worries about Sully (and even that aside).

[crimson_stallion]

Is there really a Gortat vs Cousins debate?  Seriously?

Cousins all the way. If it's one thing we can all agree with about Doc, he's a player's coach and guya like playing for him. Yes, Demarcus has issues, but his raw talent and skill makes him a guy who can be truly special in this league.

Gortat is a roleplayer. Thats it. He's not a building block.

No one is debating who has more raw talent.

The debate is a combination of:
1. The level of production (not the same as talent)
2. The cost of acquiring said player
3. The probability of that player fitting the team

Cousins is obviously far more talented than Gortat, but how many uber-talented players have we seen fail to reach their potential because of a lack of maturity?

I see Cousins as a hit or miss guy.  He could just as easily help us or hurt us.

I see Gortat as a guy who has less talent and potential, but you know exactly what he will give you and you can depend on him on a nightly basis.

Gortat has not made an All-Star team, but for the record neither has Cousins.

I just don't understand how people here diss the idea of bringing in Josh Smith because of his poor decision making, but then have wet dreams thinking about bringing Cousins here.  Take every one of Josh Smiths flaws and you can multiply it ten fold for Cousins. 

If we really wanted to trade for a near All-Star talent and give up a lot of talent to do it then I'd much rather go for Josh Smith than Cousins.  He gives you similar scoring and rebounding to Cousins but added versatility (ability to play and defend three positions), superior athleticism, playoff experience and can actually contribute on the defensive end of the floor.

Cousins is really a project player.  It's going to take time to get the best out of him, and it may never happen at all.  Worth the risk but only if the cost is no too high, which it almost certainly would be.

[Monkhouse]

I want no part of Gordon..

I don't mind packaging Sully+Bradley with one of our future picks for Cousins... Package Pierce 3 way trade for Josh Smith...

LET LEE STAY! Hes almost as good as Bradley defensively, is a proven scorer, and guess what? He's a lot taller than Bradley! Ding ding! People have been hating on Bradley for his size, but at least if we lose him Lee can help out.

Rondo/Back up PG (hopefully T-Will)
Courtney Lee/Terry
SF Jeff Green/ Shabazz?
PF J-Smoove/Sully/Shav
C Cousins/Fab Melo/Shav

That's a pretty nice starting line up to me.

[crimson_stallion]

P.s.

Last year a lot of the people here were begging for Doc to give guys like Darko Milicic and Shavlik Randolf playing time.

Other's were begging for DA to pull in somebody like Birdman, Ben Wallace, K-Mart, etc.

Take all of that into consideration, then tell me again you wouldn't want Gortat on this team...because I'm pretty sure he would be by far the best big this team has had (outside of KG, of course) in the entire big three era.

Consider that his closest competition would be 38 year old versions of Shaq and Rasheed, followed by Big Baby and then probably a 36 year old Jermaine Oneal. I think it's safe to say Gortat would be an improvement over any one of those 4 guys...yet last year we'd be drooling to have any one from that list suiting up in Green.

If we can get better (without killing half the team) then by all means, but I just don't see much out there.  Emeka Okafor maybe? I'd be just as happy with him too.

I don't see Cousins as a franchise player (doesn't have the complete game or mentality for it) so I'd rather get very good starters on the cheap (ish) rather than give up a ton of talent for a guy like Cousins who comes with no guarantees.

Don't get me wrong if we did get Cousins I'd be super excited to see what he could do (now and in the future) but I'd just be much more confident with KG coming back and a nice quality starter (like Gortat / Okafor) playing alongside him.

[hpantazo]

Is there really a Gortat vs Cousins debate?  Seriously?

Cousins all the way. If it's one thing we can all agree with about Doc, he's a player's coach and guya like playing for him. Yes, Demarcus has issues, but his raw talent and skill makes him a guy who can be truly special in this league.

Gortat is a roleplayer. Thats it. He's not a building block.

No one is debating who has more raw talent.

The debate is a combination of:
1. The level of production (not the same as talent)
2. The cost of acquiring said player
3. The probability of that player fitting the team

Cousins is obviously far more talented than Gortat, but how many uber-talented players have we seen fail to reach their potential because of a lack of maturity?

I see Cousins as a hit or miss guy.  He could just as easily help us or hurt us.

I see Gortat as a guy who has less talent and potential, but you know exactly what he will give you and you can depend on him on a nightly basis.

Gortat has not made an All-Star team, but for the record neither has Cousins.

I just don't understand how people here diss the idea of bringing in Josh Smith because of his poor decision making, but then have wet dreams thinking about bringing Cousins here.  Take every one of Josh Smiths flaws and you can multiply it ten fold for Cousins. 

If we really wanted to trade for a near All-Star talent and give up a lot of talent to do it then I'd much rather go for Josh Smith than Cousins.  He gives you similar scoring and rebounding to Cousins but added versatility (ability to play and defend three positions), superior athleticism, playoff experience and can actually contribute on the defensive end of the floor.

Cousins is really a project player.  It's going to take time to get the best out of him, and it may never happen at all.  Worth the risk but only if the cost is no too high, which it almost certainly would be.

It all depends on what your goal is for next season. If we are planning on contending with Pierce and KG back for one more year, then Gortat makes more sense. If Pierce and/or KG are gone this summer and we are rebuilding, then Gortat makes absolutely no sense. Cousins would then be worth the gamble.

[crimson_stallion]

I want no part of Gordon..

I don't mind packaging Sully+Bradley with one of our future picks for Cousins... Package Pierce 3 way trade for Josh Smith...

LET LEE STAY! Hes almost as good as Bradley defensively, is a proven scorer, and guess what? He's a lot taller than Bradley! Ding ding! People have been hating on Bradley for his size, but at least if we lose him Lee can help out.

Rondo/Back up PG (hopefully T-Will)
Courtney Lee/Terry
SF Jeff Green/ Shabazz?
PF J-Smoove/Sully/Shav
C Cousins/Fab Melo/Shav

That's a pretty nice starting line up to me.

Lee was HORRENDOUS last year. He plays with zero passion / energy, his defense is horridly overrated, he couldn't hit a shot to save his life, and he seemed in capable of earning the confidence of either his coach or his teammates.

If Lee is our starting SG next year then we may as well trade Rondo for a first round pick and tank the season, because we'll be going nowhere.

I will go so far as to say that Lee was BY FAR the worst guard on our roster this past year.  Even Crawford earned more confidence from me than Lee did...he scared the hell out of me every time he touched the ball, but at least he did something! Lee was utterly useless.

If only we could trade Lee for Marquis Daniels, Keyon Dooling, Nate Robinson or E'Twaun Moore I would do it in a heartbeat.  Hell even Stephon Marbury.  Bring Sam Cassel back from retirement. ANYBODY!!!

[chambers]

Is there really a Gortat vs Cousins debate?  Seriously?

Cousins all the way. If it's one thing we can all agree with about Doc, he's a player's coach and guya like playing for him. Yes, Demarcus has issues, but his raw talent and skill makes him a guy who can be truly special in this league.

Gortat is a roleplayer. Thats it. He's not a building block.

No one is debating who has more raw talent.

The debate is a combination of:
1. The level of production (not the same as talent)
2. The cost of acquiring said player
3. The probability of that player fitting the team

Cousins is obviously far more talented than Gortat, but how many uber-talented players have we seen fail to reach their potential because of a lack of maturity?

I see Cousins as a hit or miss guy.  He could just as easily help us or hurt us.

I see Gortat as a guy who has less talent and potential, but you know exactly what he will give you and you can depend on him on a nightly basis.

Gortat has not made an All-Star team, but for the record neither has Cousins.

I just don't understand how people here diss the idea of bringing in Josh Smith because of his poor decision making, but then have wet dreams thinking about bringing Cousins here.  Take every one of Josh Smiths flaws and you can multiply it ten fold for Cousins. 

If we really wanted to trade for a near All-Star talent and give up a lot of talent to do it then I'd much rather go for Josh Smith than Cousins.  He gives you similar scoring and rebounding to Cousins but added versatility (ability to play and defend three positions), superior athleticism, playoff experience and can actually contribute on the defensive end of the floor.

Cousins is really a project player.  It's going to take time to get the best out of him, and it may never happen at all.  Worth the risk but only if the cost is no too high, which it almost certainly would be.

Cousins with the Celtics is a potential best 7 footer in the NBA, I mean legit first team/starting All Star material.
Bigs win championships and Cousins is probably the most skilled 7 footer in the NBA behind the Gasol boys on the offensive end and he's 22 years old!!
I would love to get Cousins for DeAndre, Bledsloe, our 16th pick and Avery Bradley but to get your hands on a talent like him you have to be realistic.
At the end of the day, Green is great at 9 million but at the end of the day DeAndre and Green are role players. Green is great but he's never going to be more than a 2nd or third scoring option on a championship team, let alone a 7th or 8th seed playoff team.
Cousins is a franchise prototype player.
Get Doc Rivers and Rondo in his ear and you've got potentially one of the greatest centers of the last 10 years. Ignore his stats, he will grow up sooner than later, he just needs a taste of winning.
I mean Id love Cousins,Green and Rondo and that's possible but if I'm the Kings I know Cousins would mean to the Celtics and a safe 20/5/5 player like Green is what a franchise like the Kings needs to sell tickets and lead in the locker room.
People aren't considering that Ainge signed Green and developed Bradley because they'd make perfect trade chips-not star Celtics for life. They're the kind if guys that you combine to get a legit star.
Do you really think Green is taking us to Banner 18?
Now I'm not sure if Cousins is either but with the right environment you have a potential championship  core of Rondo, Cousins and Sullinger.
I just feel that you must gamble on taking Cousins if you have to give up Green to get him.  Hopefully you don't have to but if we are.dumping Pierce and KG it's worth the risk. Bigs are everything in the NBA, and with a front line of Cousins and Sully, we'd have one of the most skilled front lines in the NBA. Imagine how good our inside outside game would be and with a defensive coaching team like the Celtics telling at him every day he'd improve so much because his footwork and lateral movement are simply astonishing.

Ultimately youre looking at a trade of two great role players (Green + Jordan) for a 20/10 center with the potential to be a franchise superstar. The Celtics is that organization if there ever were one to tame the beast- or unleash him as some would see it.

[guava_wrench]

Bigs win championships and Cousins is probably the most skilled 7 footer in the NBA behind the Gasol boys on the offensive end and he's 22 years old!!

Do they? What bigs does Miami have? They are fine with Bosh, who is far from the Duncan/Shaq kind of big. What bigs won the 6 championships for the Bulls?

Cousins will likely bring as many championships as Derrick Coleman brought to his teams. High skill level, physical attributes, and drive bring championships. Height is a valuable physical attribute, but there are clearly other ways to win.

[rondohondo]

Bigs win championships and Cousins is probably the most skilled 7 footer in the NBA behind the Gasol boys on the offensive end and he's 22 years old!!

Do they? What bigs does Miami have? They are fine with Bosh, who is far from the Duncan/Shaq kind of big. What bigs won the 6 championships for the Bulls?

Cousins will likely bring as many championships as Derrick Coleman brought to his teams. High skill level, physical attributes, and drive bring championships. Height is a valuable physical attribute, but there are clearly other ways to win.

Yea and don't mention that Miami has the best player since Jordan .......

Besides that

spurs- duncan
Lakers- Shaq
Celtics- KG
Pistons- Rasheed, ben wallace
Miami- Shaq
Houston- Hakeem

Cousins definitely has the potential to be a prime Rasheed Wallace type.

[guava_wrench]

Bigs win championships and Cousins is probably the most skilled 7 footer in the NBA behind the Gasol boys on the offensive end and he's 22 years old!!

Do they? What bigs does Miami have? They are fine with Bosh, who is far from the Duncan/Shaq kind of big. What bigs won the 6 championships for the Bulls?

Cousins will likely bring as many championships as Derrick Coleman brought to his teams. High skill level, physical attributes, and drive bring championships. Height is a valuable physical attribute, but there are clearly other ways to win.

Yea and don't mention that Miami has the best player since Jordan .......

Besides that

spurs- duncan
Lakers- Shaq
Celtics- KG
Pistons- Rasheed, ben wallace
Miami- Shaq
Houston- Hakeem

Lebron is the point. You don't have to have the dominant big. Great players bring championships, big or small (though I'm skeptical of the impact of superstar PGs).

If we want to play this game, we can say perimeter players bring championships:

Spurs: Parker
Lakers: Kobe
Celtics: Pierce
Pistons: Billups
Miami: Wade, Lebron
Detroit: Thomas
Chicago: Jordan

In Dallas, Dirk is a bit of a tweener on offense, relying one very Kobe/Pierce like post moves.

Apart from the run of bigs as finals MVP when Shaq and Duncan won from 1999 to 2003, bigs have taken a back seat to perimeter players. Part of this may be the rules adjustments that are beneficial to perimeter players.

[indeedproceed]

Bigs win championships and Cousins is probably the most skilled 7 footer in the NBA behind the Gasol boys on the offensive end and he's 22 years old!!

Do they? What bigs does Miami have? They are fine with Bosh, who is far from the Duncan/Shaq kind of big. What bigs won the 6 championships for the Bulls?

Cousins will likely bring as many championships as Derrick Coleman brought to his teams. High skill level, physical attributes, and drive bring championships. Height is a valuable physical attribute, but there are clearly other ways to win.

Yea and don't mention that Miami has the best player since Jordan .......

Besides that

spurs- duncan
Lakers- Shaq
Celtics- KG
Pistons- Rasheed, ben wallace
Miami- Shaq
Houston- Hakeem

Lebron is the point. You don't have to have the dominant big. Great players bring championships, big or small (though I'm skeptical of the impact of superstar PGs).

If we want to play this game, we can say perimeter players bring championships:

Spurs: Parker
Lakers: Kobe
Celtics: Pierce
Pistons: Billups
Miami: Wade, Lebron
Detroit: Thomas
Chicago: Jordan

In Dallas, Dirk is a bit of a tweener on offense, relying one very Kobe/Pierce like post moves.

Apart from the run of bigs as finals MVP when Shaq and Duncan won from 1999 to 2003, bigs have taken a back seat to perimeter players. Part of this may be the rules adjustments that are beneficial to perimeter players.

Actually, good role players win championships.

Miami-Battier
Dallas-Brian Cardinal
LA: Derek Fisher
LA: Derek Fisher
Boston: Brian Scalabrine
SAS: Bruce Bowen
Miami: James Posey

I could go on, but i think I made my definitively.

[RJ87]

Is there really a Gortat vs Cousins debate?  Seriously?

Cousins all the way. If it's one thing we can all agree with about Doc, he's a player's coach and guya like playing for him. Yes, Demarcus has issues, but his raw talent and skill makes him a guy who can be truly special in this league.

Gortat is a roleplayer. Thats it. He's not a building block.

No one is debating who has more raw talent.

The debate is a combination of:
1. The level of production (not the same as talent)
2. The cost of acquiring said player
3. The probability of that player fitting the team

Cousins is obviously far more talented than Gortat, but how many uber-talented players have we seen fail to reach their potential because of a lack of maturity?

I see Cousins as a hit or miss guy.  He could just as easily help us or hurt us.

I see Gortat as a guy who has less talent and potential, but you know exactly what he will give you and you can depend on him on a nightly basis.

Gortat has not made an All-Star team, but for the record neither has Cousins.

I just don't understand how people here diss the idea of bringing in Josh Smith because of his poor decision making, but then have wet dreams thinking about bringing Cousins here.  Take every one of Josh Smiths flaws and you can multiply it ten fold for Cousins. 

If we really wanted to trade for a near All-Star talent and give up a lot of talent to do it then I'd much rather go for Josh Smith than Cousins.  He gives you similar scoring and rebounding to Cousins but added versatility (ability to play and defend three positions), superior athleticism, playoff experience and can actually contribute on the defensive end of the floor.

Cousins is really a project player.  It's going to take time to get the best out of him, and it may never happen at all.  Worth the risk but only if the cost is no too high, which it almost certainly would be.

I myself have been a proponent of bringing in Josh Smith. With that said, if you're taking a gamble I'm still firmly on the side of Cousins.  For starters, age plays a huge factor. Josh is 27 and entering his prime. Cousins is 22 - still tons of room to grow.