why does Doc act like he is doing Celtics a favor

[LooseCannon]

I really don't care if Doc Rivers was Phil Jackson or Popovich (he is not) I would ask the same question. None of you Doc supporters responded to my OP, perhaps you know the question is fair. All yall did was get defensive and turn it into a defend Doc Rivers thread. If everything the Doc defenders have said is true, it still does not give him the right to treat the organization like this. He has a contract, if he is as honorable as yall say he is he should honor is contract.

Here is what happened:

You: Why is Doc being so uppity?
Me: The premise of your question is faulty.  You are seeing an attitude that does not exist.

[D.o.s.]

I think we should take a deep breath and remember that its all just basketball.

[indeedproceed]

you are asking me to stop being a fan. If sports teams were just the concern of the ownership there would be no fans. I would not be posting on this site at 11:00 pm on a Saturday night. 

Perhaps I just don't like the idea of anybody kicking my dear Celtics around.

That thought though is is very likely completely in your head.

Previous reasons Doc himself has given for wanting to take a year off of coaching:

1) Wanting to watch his kids grow up and play the sports they love, to be there for his family before they all grow up

And that's it. Meanwhile, what has Doc ever done to sell the Celtics short? He's never taken another job interview, or hinted that he wanted to. He has been absolutely loyal to the team, and come back even when the writing was on the wall that we weren't contenders anymore. This year, hes already committed to come back to coach what will likely be one of the most painful years to watch since the Pitino years (if KG and Pierce both walk, we're looking at a team that is going to be very, very bad..maybe not as bad as 2007, but worse than any of the other years since the new millenium).

Do you know how many coaches have coached the Celtics for longer? How many have coached more games for the Cs than Doc?

2, and 1. Heinsohn coached for 9 years, Doc has coached for 8, and only Red coached more total games than Doc, since the team's inception.

What more do you want on the resume of the guy stalking the sidelines? Doc isn't perfect, but he's one of the top 3 most well regarded professional basketball coaches currently employed by the NBA, and he's never said a bad word about the Celtics, or even intimated that he'd coach somewhere else, even though considering his age and the way these things work, it's a virtual certainty that at some point he will.

[indeedproceed]

I think we should take a deep breath and remember that its all just basketball.

Haha...he said to the grown men posting on an Internet board at 3am on a Saturday.

[Ogaju]

I really don't care if Doc Rivers was Phil Jackson or Popovich (he is not) I would ask the same question. None of you Doc supporters responded to my OP, perhaps you know the question is fair. All yall did was get defensive and turn it into a defend Doc Rivers thread. If everything the Doc defenders have said is true, it still does not give him the right to treat the organization like this. He has a contract, if he is as honorable as yall say he is he should honor is contract.

If he is truly as valuable as he is to our team as yall say he is don't you think his lack of open commitment dilutes that value (his so-called attraction of free agents).

I did not bash Doc's coaching in my OP all I asked was why does is he so arrogant with the team, and why cant he just honor his contract.

Based on what you wrote there, I think you might benefit from developing a better understanding of how labor contracts work.

But anyway I have a question for you. Do you also view KG as being "arrogant" right now? Or not "honoring" his contract?

I know exactly how labor contracts work. They are supposed to be executed by the parties. One party signs to provide services, the other signs to pay for the services. If one party does not perform the other can sue for damages. Specific Performance of personal service contracts are highly disfavored, that is why you depend on the honor of the party contracting to provide services. What exactly do you think I do not understand. KG does not do what Doc Rivers has been doing.

Are you suggesting that Doc is legally bound to work for the Celtics for the entire term of the contract, and/or that his resigning in these current circumstances would violate the contract or be wrongful in some way?

I cant answer your question because I have not read his contract, but I will say this, if there are no escape clauses in his contract, then the answers to your questions are yes and yes.

[cltc5]

if doc stays he needs to properly manage minutes and stop running KG and pierce into the ground.  Also emphazize the importance of getting rebounds, and play players on the bench so they at least get experience.  In other words we need a new coach!  As long as Doc's philosophy coupled with KG and Pierce are around, the celtc nation will continue to have nothing but memories to muddle around in while the rest of the NBA is moving forward, getting younger and preparing for playoff runs.  I love all 3 aforementioned guys, despite my continuous Doc bashing, but I;m a realist, and I've watched a team, handcuffed by stubborness, spiral into the abyss of "almost, but not quite" before.  It's not fun.

[freshinthehouse]

Fascinating how uncomfortable folks get around here with the idea that their beloved favorites have failed, so they go after Rivers instead.

Haha yup.  A lot of fans can't handle the fact that their favorite players might not just be as a good as they think they are. 

[mmmmm]

I did not bash Doc's coaching in my OP all I asked was why does is he so arrogant with the team, and why cant he just honor his contract.

"When did you stop beating your wife?"

The whole problem with with your whole approach is that it is disingenuous.  You aren't asking a legitimate question.  You are simply calling Doc arrogant.

'Not surprising you are getting pilloried for THAT instead of answering your disingenuous 'question'.

You don't like Doc.  That's pretty apparent.  Most others disagree with you.  Live with it.

[Ogaju]

well why don't you mention any other coach in the league who publicly tells the world that he has to think about coming back after every season. Is the NBA season different for Doc than any other coach? Is Doc the only coach  with a family? Why is it just Boston that has to deal with whether their coach, who by the way is under contract, is going to honor is contract? Is Boston really that much of a charity case?

None of you have answered that question? It doesn't matter whether Doc is the best coach in the league that was never my point. My question lest we forget is

'why does Doc act like he is doing the Celtics a favor'  A coach should honor his contract or simply resign when he sees fit. There is no reason to broadcast to the whole world and free agent class that coming back is a day to day thing. All he has to say when asked is I am the coach of the Boston Celtics and I am under contract for the next X years. Why play out your wavering in public. How many GMs have had to come out and speculate that their contracted coach will be back? I think this unnecessarily hurts the team.

[nickagneta]

Ogaju, neither you nor I nor anyone else was in the room when Doc Rivers signed his 5 year contract. In discussions of that type, with friends doing a professional contract, there could have been a spoken word between the parties that Doc will have the opportunity to get out of his contract at anytime for whatever reason, personal or professional. Heck, that might even be written in his contract.

If so, then Danny and Doc are just acting within the guidelines of a previously agreed to verbal agreement or within the language of the contract. Rather than giving Doc one year contracts and resigning him every year, Danny and Doc and their representatives could have just come up with the 5 year deal where Doc, if he so chooses, can end the contract after any season he wishes.

If this is the case, and quite honestly, given the amount of times this has come up, I think this probably is what happened, then Doc is not acting arrogantly or doing something that he doesn't have a right to do.

You are just introducing your personal feelings about Doc into a business situation where there are no feelings, just people exercising their options within a written or verbal contract or both.

[bucknersrevenge]

I did not bash Doc's coaching in my OP all I asked was why does is he so arrogant with the team, and why cant he just honor his contract.

"When did you stop beating your wife?"

The whole problem with with your whole approach is that it is disingenuous.  You aren't asking a legitimate question.  You are simply calling Doc arrogant.

'Not surprising you are getting pilloried for THAT instead of answering your disingenuous 'question'.

You don't like Doc.  That's pretty apparent.  Most others disagree with you.  Live with it.

On this site, since THIS is what "getting pilloried" looks like due to site regulations, I'm sure ignoring valid arguments and simply restating a premise that lacks even a hint of logic is well within his rights. Even if the poster is misremembering. There have been only 2 times where Doc was in question of whether he was leaving. Last year and this year, and for blatantly obvious reasons. Last year his contract was up and he talked about spending time with his family. This season, where the roster may undergo a major overhaul and whether he wants to be a part of it. But if someone wants to misrepresent these last 2 years and extrapolate it somehow to Doc's entire tenure, again that is his right.

[badshar]

I really don't care if Doc Rivers was Phil Jackson or Popovich (he is not) I would ask the same question. None of you Doc supporters responded to my OP, perhaps you know the question is fair. All yall did was get defensive and turn it into a defend Doc Rivers thread. If everything the Doc defenders have said is true, it still does not give him the right to treat the organization like this. He has a contract, if he is as honorable as yall say he is he should honor is contract.

If he is truly as valuable as he is to our team as yall say he is don't you think his lack of open commitment dilutes that value (his so-called attraction of free agents).

I did not bash Doc's coaching in my OP all I asked was why does is he so arrogant with the team, and why cant he just honor his contract.

Based on what you wrote there, I think you might benefit from developing a better understanding of how labor contracts work.

But anyway I have a question for you. Do you also view KG as being "arrogant" right now? Or not "honoring" his contract?

I know exactly how labor contracts work. They are supposed to be executed by the parties. One party signs to provide services, the other signs to pay for the services. If one party does not perform the other can sue for damages. Specific Performance of personal service contracts are highly disfavored, that is why you depend on the honor of the party contracting to provide services. What exactly do you think I do not understand. KG does not do what Doc Rivers has been doing.

KG does that all the time. He halted the process last year and Ainge began offseason business only after signing him. The same thing is happening this year.

I don't know about you, but I would think twice at the end of each year whether or not I want to do such a hectic job at Doc's age. Especially when I already enough money to live happily for the rest of my life.

Anyways, we still don't know why you are so concerned when the team, it's managers and it's owners are not concerned.

[Boris Badenov]

I really don't care if Doc Rivers was Phil Jackson or Popovich (he is not) I would ask the same question. None of you Doc supporters responded to my OP, perhaps you know the question is fair. All yall did was get defensive and turn it into a defend Doc Rivers thread. If everything the Doc defenders have said is true, it still does not give him the right to treat the organization like this. He has a contract, if he is as honorable as yall say he is he should honor is contract.

If he is truly as valuable as he is to our team as yall say he is don't you think his lack of open commitment dilutes that value (his so-called attraction of free agents).

I did not bash Doc's coaching in my OP all I asked was why does is he so arrogant with the team, and why cant he just honor his contract.

Based on what you wrote there, I think you might benefit from developing a better understanding of how labor contracts work.

But anyway I have a question for you. Do you also view KG as being "arrogant" right now? Or not "honoring" his contract?

I know exactly how labor contracts work. They are supposed to be executed by the parties. One party signs to provide services, the other signs to pay for the services. If one party does not perform the other can sue for damages. Specific Performance of personal service contracts are highly disfavored, that is why you depend on the honor of the party contracting to provide services. What exactly do you think I do not understand. KG does not do what Doc Rivers has been doing.

Are you suggesting that Doc is legally bound to work for the Celtics for the entire term of the contract, and/or that his resigning in these current circumstances would violate the contract or be wrongful in some way?

I cant answer your question because I have not read his contract, but I will say this, if there are no escape clauses in his contract, then the answers to your questions are yes and yes.

Wouldn't the contract as you describe it be indentured servitude?

[Ogaju]

of course not. Doc is free to walk away from the contract but he will then be in breach of the legal obligation and will have to pay damages unless the Cs waive their right to collect.

[dasani]

I agree that there must be something in the contract, the allows Doc the opportunity to opt out if he wishes. Whether it be family, the taxing season, or not wanting to coach a rebuilding team. All are valid. At this point in Doc's career I really don't see him staying on to coach a rebuild. Those kind of seasons can be unnecessarily frustrating for a coach of his caliber.