Avery Makes All-Defensive SECOND team

[Celtic Fan Forever]

Three Grizzlies among the all defensive teams, impressive and well deserved.

[Lucky17]

Hey, Evan: I have found Defensive Rating scores, but where do you find those defensive points per possession metric scores? Having a hard time tracking those down.

[Evantime34]

Hey, Evan: I have found Defensive Rating scores, but where do you find those defensive points per possession metric scores? Having a hard time tracking those down.

mysynergysports.com

I am actually confused as to the difference between the two stats, if any stat head could break that down for me.

[LooseCannon]

Well, if voting does depend on position, CP3 is the top votegetter for PG, while Bradley has to beat out Allen for consideration at SG.

Maybe they can do it like the All-Star game and have three front-court players and two guards.  Of course, that would mean Larry Sanders would be second-team All-Defensive and the DPOY would not be on either team.

On the one hand, I'm not a fan of players missing 40% of the season getting awards like this.  On the other hand, I think that people who say there isn't that much of a difference on defense between Bradley and Courtney Lee don't really understand how good Bradley is.

[Lucky17]

Hey, Evan: I have found Defensive Rating scores, but where do you find those defensive points per possession metric scores? Having a hard time tracking those down.

mysynergysports.com

I am actually confused as to the difference between the two stats, if any stat head could break that down for me.

Ah, looks like a subscription website.

I think you may be right, that they might be essentially the same stat, just reflected on a different scale.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/about/ratings.html

Just as Oliver's Offensive Rating represents points produced by the player per 100 possessions consumed, his Defensive Rating estimates how many points the player allowed per 100 possessions he individually faced while on the court.

Although there seems to be quite a lot that goes into quantifying "stops."

At any rate: Defensive Ratings for the three guards in question:

CP3: 103.0
Bradley: 98.3
Allen: 94.0

How do the DEF PPP scores for these three relate to their DRTG scores? I suspect they should be closely related. According to your earlier post:

Chris Paul: .83 points per possession allowed
Avery Bradley: .73 points per possession allowed

I'm guessing Tony's score should be around 0.63 ppp allowed?

[ManUp]

So, Mark Gasol is the defensive player of the year, but he finished behind two other centers on the All-Defense team?

Stuff like this always cracks me up.

I was thinking the same thing.

[Evantime34]

Hey, Evan: I have found Defensive Rating scores, but where do you find those defensive points per possession metric scores? Having a hard time tracking those down.

mysynergysports.com

I am actually confused as to the difference between the two stats, if any stat head could break that down for me.

Ah, looks like a subscription website.

I think you may be right, that they might be essentially the same stat, just reflected on a different scale.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/about/ratings.html

Just as Oliver's Offensive Rating represents points produced by the player per 100 possessions consumed, his Defensive Rating estimates how many points the player allowed per 100 possessions he individually faced while on the court.

Although there seems to be quite a lot that goes into quantifying "stops."

At any rate: Defensive Ratings for the three guards in question:

CP3: 103.0
Bradley: 98.3
Allen: 94.0

How do the DEF PPP scores for these three relate to their DRTG scores? I suspect they should be closely related. According to your earlier post:

Chris Paul: .83 points per possession allowed
Avery Bradley: .73 points per possession allowed

I'm guessing Tony's score should be around 0.63 ppp allowed?

It is a pay site but only for the videos. So if you pay you can watch everytime Bradley defended a pick and roll or an iso. If you have flashlight you can look at as many stats as you like without paying.

Also I don't see where on basketball ref you see 98.3. On the Celtics page of BR I see 105 as his defensive rating.

[Lucky17]

NBA.com advanced stats:

http://www.nba.com/advancedstats/player.html#Avery-Bradley|202340;year=201213;season=r

Wow, BRef has 105 DRTG for Bradley? That's a huge discrepancy.

[GreenFaith1819]

Well-deserved...can't wait for him and Rondo to terrorize the league next year. Those two play well together.

[Evantime34]

NBA.com advanced stats:

http://www.nba.com/advancedstats/player.html#Avery-Bradley|202340;year=201213;season=r

Wow, BRef has 105 DRTG for Bradley? That's a huge discrepancy.

Haha yeah, that's why I wasn't sure what the difference in calculation was

[LooseCannon]

At any rate: Defensive Ratings for the three guards in question:

CP3: 103.0
Bradley: 98.3
Allen: 94.0

How do the DEF PPP scores for these three relate to their DRTG scores? I suspect they should be closely related. According to your earlier post:

Chris Paul: .83 points per possession allowed
Avery Bradley: .73 points per possession allowed

I'm guessing Tony's score should be around 0.63 ppp allowed?

MSS has Tony Allen at 0.76ppp, so worse than Avery Bradley.  I think they may calculate it based on points per possession that ends with the person being guarded by the player taking a shot attempt, shooting free throws, or turning the ball over.

[sed522002]

At any rate: Defensive Ratings for the three guards in question:

CP3: 103.0
Bradley: 98.3
Allen: 94.0

How do the DEF PPP scores for these three relate to their DRTG scores? I suspect they should be closely related. According to your earlier post:

Chris Paul: .83 points per possession allowed
Avery Bradley: .73 points per possession allowed

I'm guessing Tony's score should be around 0.63 ppp allowed?

MSS has Tony Allen at 0.76ppp, so worse than Avery Bradley.  I think they may calculate it based on points per possession that ends with the person being guarded by the player taking a shot attempt, shooting free throws, or turning the ball over.

What type of rating does Iman Shumpert have? He's a good defender as well.

[Lucky17]

At any rate: Defensive Ratings for the three guards in question:

CP3: 103.0
Bradley: 98.3
Allen: 94.0

How do the DEF PPP scores for these three relate to their DRTG scores? I suspect they should be closely related. According to your earlier post:

Chris Paul: .83 points per possession allowed
Avery Bradley: .73 points per possession allowed

I'm guessing Tony's score should be around 0.63 ppp allowed?

MSS has Tony Allen at 0.76ppp, so worse than Avery Bradley.  I think they may calculate it based on points per possession that ends with the person being guarded by the player taking a shot attempt, shooting free throws, or turning the ball over.

What type of rating does Iman Shumpert have? He's a good defender as well.

Not sure about how MSS rates Shump, but:

NBA.com: DRTG of 101.6
BRef.com: DRTG of 106

[SHAQATTACK]

OMG.... Geeeseeeee ...Not re signing Tony Allen was was just an epic failure of all time.

[bdm860]

The thing I don't understand is.. How does a DPOY go on the 2nd defensive team, and not the first?

Different voting bodies. Defensive team is named by coaches, not media.

So which voting method do you all think is more accurate?

Obviously there is a little bit of disconnect, as last year the same thing happened with Tyson Chandler winning DPOY but Dwight Howard making first team. 

Which voting body got it right?

Were Joakim Noah and Tyson Chandler better defensively than Marc Gasol?
 
Which list better represents the top 5 defenders in the NBA in order?
(Though this isn’t a perfect comparison because the voting method for the 2 awards is different, i.e. vote for 1 player vs. vote for 2 guards, 2 forwards, 1 center, and a guard like Chris Paul might get more votes than a F (Duncan, George, etc.) or C (Noah, Chandler, Gasol, etc.) just by default of less competition at his position, I’d say it’s a decent approximation though, especially at the top). 

Top 5 DPOY vote getters:
Marc Gasol
LeBron James
Serge Ibaka
Joakim Noah
Tony Allen

Vs the top 5 All Defensive team vote getters:
Tony Allen
LeBron James
Serge Ibaka
Chris Paul
Paul George

Basically asking do you think the media does a better job of picking the right winner or the coaches? (Or do you think they both do an equally good/bad job?)