Besides size, the Celtics have another glaring need...

[lantinm]

For a better breakdown of Shabazz's game.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ISAOSMA2kP8

[nickagneta]

The Celtics definitely need some new personnel to help in the offensive end but there are some things they can do to make their offense better.

1. Give up on the "we don't need to offensively rebound the ball" philosophy and send Sully and a guard to the rim to get misses every play.

2. Quicken the pace when you have a younger set of players on the court. Fast break, get to the basket before the defense sets.

3. Once Rondo and a real back up PG are in place, drive the ball to the hole and draw charges, hit layups, or dish out for corner threes. If he is still here next year that goes for Jeff Green who should be working on using his left hand and giving left to the basket.

4.Take better care of the ball.

5. Get better defensively without needing to give up on offensive rebounds

Now, new personnel are necessary. Lee, Crawford, Wilcox, Williams, and Terry just are not good offensive fits and their defense is suspect. But doing these things besides moving some players around should help out offensively.

in regards to number 1. This team has been trending towards a more athletic squad ever since the Big 3 began to age. My hope is that if they bring in players with elite speed and athleticism that they can both rebound and get back on defense.

Previously Doc went to this strategy to prevent more athletic teams from breaking out on the C's. Maybe as we become more athletic we won't need to concern ourselves with getting back at the expense of rebounds.

Let's hope but once again the numbers this year reflected that philosophy of not going for offensive rebounds, though I guess a case can be made that the team as a whole, especially after Rondo and Sully(both plus plus rebounders) went down, was just a horrid rebounding team.

agreed but I don't see Doc changing his philosophy regardless of who's playing for him.

on those rare occasion when the C's did crash the offensive boards, they seemed to make out pretty well.  I think that's partly due to the other team relaxing on their boards because the thought of a Doc team trying for an offensive board was just preposterous.

Doc had the C's crash for offensive boards plenty in 07-08, 08-09, and 09-10.

He used Powe/Davis as lower minute big men and both were told to crash. He'd also have Perkins/KG crash fairly frequently, Rondo has always had the freedom to go for them too.

Once we traded Perkins and as KG aged we pulled back, Davis proved he couldn't maintain the same energy level as a big minutes player so Doc had him pull back too. You can see that he set Sullinger loose on the offensive glass this year.

I think if DA acquired another talented OREB big man he'd utilize both him and Sullinger.

I don't see where any of this is true Faf. The numbers don't bear out your claims. The Celtics have been an overall poor rebounding team offensively since before 2007-08 and that includes an entire change over of personnel. 2009-10 with JO, Shaq, Perk, KG, Davis, Eden, and Krstic manning 90% of the front court minutes produced the worst rebounding and offensive rebounding team in the league in both RPG, ORPG and OR%.

[BleedGreen1989]

I thought the OP was going to ask for a more even-keeled, less reactionary fan base.

In New England? Now why in the world would I do that? 

[BleedGreen1989]

For a better breakdown of Shabazz's game.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ISAOSMA2kP8

Yeaaaa boy that's what I'm talkin about! Giving up Bradley is tough but I want Shabazz in green next year

[Fafnir]

I don't see where any of this is true Faf. The numbers don't bear out your claims. The Celtics have been an overall poor rebounding team offensively since before 2007-08 and that includes an entire change over of personnel. 2009-10 with JO, Shaq, Perk, KG, Davis, Eden, and Krstic manning 90% of the front court minutes produced the worst rebounding and offensive rebounding team in the league in both RPG, ORPG and OR%.

Then you're not looking Nick.

Boston OReb%
07-08 16th
08-09 7th
09-10 28th
10-11 30th
11-12 30th
12-13 30th

C's weren't bad at offensive rebounding till KG/Powe got hurt. Even in 09-10 it wasn't a tactical choice by Doc. Instead it was playing Rasheed/KG (still gimpy) so many minutes. Perkins/BBD both were solid offensive rebounders (9.1/13.7 respectively) and aggressively were crashing. So were Tony/Rondo and other guards at times.

After 09-10 Doc clearly changed the strategy, one that I think is more talent based than anything. Because Sullinger/Rondo certainly were given the green light to go for boards.

[Atzar]

We definitely have a glaring need on offense and it brings me back to a deal I proposed about a week ago.  Send Avery Bradley and the 16th pick to a team in the 7-10 draft range and select Shabazz Muhammed and start him at the 2 alongside Rondo.  I watched this kid play 10 times this year and he can flat-out score.  He's a legit 6'6 and like Pierce, he can score in a myriad of ways. I also think he's a pure-shooter as well, although some might disagree.  Here's a video that kind of backs up my claim:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PawIt4Dd3hg

Shabazz is by far the most talented player in this draft, but he still needs to work on his game.  His handle, defense, and getting others involved are the parts of his game that need some work, but man can he play.  We need to take advantage of the fact that he's slipping and jump on him if he's there at 7-10.

I've started to come around to this as well.  If he falls to the point where we can grab him for a reasonable price, then I'd certainly be interested.

[Evantime34]

We definitely have a glaring need on offense and it brings me back to a deal I proposed about a week ago.  Send Avery Bradley and the 16th pick to a team in the 7-10 draft range and select Shabazz Muhammed and start him at the 2 alongside Rondo.  I watched this kid play 10 times this year and he can flat-out score.  He's a legit 6'6 and like Pierce, he can score in a myriad of ways. I also think he's a pure-shooter as well, although some might disagree.  Here's a video that kind of backs up my claim:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PawIt4Dd3hg

Shabazz is by far the most talented player in this draft, but he still needs to work on his game.  His handle, defense, and getting others involved are the parts of his game that need some work, but man can he play.  We need to take advantage of the fact that he's slipping and jump on him if he's there at 7-10.

He also shoots when he has wide open teammates. He is a player who pouted after his teammate hit a game winning shot because he didn't get the ball. We would be dealing a team first guy in Bradley plus the 16th pick for someone who cares more about the name on the back of jersey than the name on the front.

I know most people have turned on Bradley after the Knicks series but this guy was one of the best defenders in the league, playing out of position after coming off double shoulder surgery.

[nickagneta]

I don't see where any of this is true Faf. The numbers don't bear out your claims. The Celtics have been an overall poor rebounding team offensively since before 2007-08 and that includes an entire change over of personnel. 2009-10 with JO, Shaq, Perk, KG, Davis, Eden, and Krstic manning 90% of the front court minutes produced the worst rebounding and offensive rebounding team in the league in both RPG, ORPG and OR%.

Then you're not looking Nick.

Boston OReb%
07-08 16th
08-09 7th
09-10 28th
10-11 30th
11-12 30th
12-13 30th

C's weren't bad at offensive rebounding till KG/Powe got hurt. Even in 09-10 it wasn't a tactical choice by Doc. Instead it was playing Rasheed/KG (still gimpy) so many minutes. Perkins/BBD both were solid offensive rebounders (9.1/13.7 respectively) and aggressively were crashing. So were Tony/Rondo and other guards at times.

After 09-10 Doc clearly changed the strategy, one that I think is more talent based than anything. Because Sullinger/Rondo certainly were given the green light to go for boards.

Then I will find a link that states Docs philosophy because I am 100% sure I remember someone stating Docs philosophy on offensive rebounding going all the way back to those years you claim because I just think you are completely wrong on this.

[Fafnir]

I don't see where any of this is true Faf. The numbers don't bear out your claims. The Celtics have been an overall poor rebounding team offensively since before 2007-08 and that includes an entire change over of personnel. 2009-10 with JO, Shaq, Perk, KG, Davis, Eden, and Krstic manning 90% of the front court minutes produced the worst rebounding and offensive rebounding team in the league in both RPG, ORPG and OR%.

Then you're not looking Nick.

Boston OReb%
07-08 16th
08-09 7th
09-10 28th
10-11 30th
11-12 30th
12-13 30th

C's weren't bad at offensive rebounding till KG/Powe got hurt. Even in 09-10 it wasn't a tactical choice by Doc. Instead it was playing Rasheed/KG (still gimpy) so many minutes. Perkins/BBD both were solid offensive rebounders (9.1/13.7 respectively) and aggressively were crashing. So were Tony/Rondo and other guards at times.

After 09-10 Doc clearly changed the strategy, one that I think is more talent based than anything. Because Sullinger/Rondo certainly were given the green light to go for boards.

Then I will find a link that states Docs philosophy because I am 100% sure I remember someone stating Docs philosophy on offensive rebounding going all the way back to those years you claim.

He frequently played two offensive rebounders and had them both crash the first three years of the KG era though. If his philosophy was already set in stone, then he wouldn't have been giving Powe/Davis/Perkins/etc the freedom to do so.

Because he certainly had BBD pull back on crashing in 10-11 season.

[BleedGreen1989]

We definitely have a glaring need on offense and it brings me back to a deal I proposed about a week ago.  Send Avery Bradley and the 16th pick to a team in the 7-10 draft range and select Shabazz Muhammed and start him at the 2 alongside Rondo.  I watched this kid play 10 times this year and he can flat-out score.  He's a legit 6'6 and like Pierce, he can score in a myriad of ways. I also think he's a pure-shooter as well, although some might disagree.  Here's a video that kind of backs up my claim:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PawIt4Dd3hg

Shabazz is by far the most talented player in this draft, but he still needs to work on his game.  His handle, defense, and getting others involved are the parts of his game that need some work, but man can he play.  We need to take advantage of the fact that he's slipping and jump on him if he's there at 7-10.

He also shoots when he has wide open teammates. He is a player who pouted after his teammate hit a game winning shot because he didn't get the ball. We would be dealing a team first guy in Bradley plus the 16th pick for someone who cares more about the name on the back of jersey than the name on the front.

I know most people have turned on Bradley after the Knicks series but this guy was one of the best defenders in the league, playing out of position after coming off double shoulder surgery.

That's true Evan and although I really like Shabazz and what he can be I would not deal Avery and the 16th for him. However, if Minnesota would be interested in a package of Lee or Crawford and our 16th I'm pretty sure I would pull the trigger on that and I don't think that's too unreasonable. Minnesota gets a guard they have coveted for awhile and only drops back 7 spots.

[wdleehi]

I think a low post offensive threat would do wonders for the Celtics offense. 


Someone that could pull a double team which opens up someone outside with a pass or two out of it. 

[Chief]

I don't see where any of this is true Faf. The numbers don't bear out your claims. The Celtics have been an overall poor rebounding team offensively since before 2007-08 and that includes an entire change over of personnel. 2009-10 with JO, Shaq, Perk, KG, Davis, Eden, and Krstic manning 90% of the front court minutes produced the worst rebounding and offensive rebounding team in the league in both RPG, ORPG and OR%.

Then you're not looking Nick.

Boston OReb%
07-08 16th
08-09 7th
09-10 28th
10-11 30th
11-12 30th
12-13 30th

C's weren't bad at offensive rebounding till KG/Powe got hurt. Even in 09-10 it wasn't a tactical choice by Doc. Instead it was playing Rasheed/KG (still gimpy) so many minutes. Perkins/BBD both were solid offensive rebounders (9.1/13.7 respectively) and aggressively were crashing. So were Tony/Rondo and other guards at times.

After 09-10 Doc clearly changed the strategy, one that I think is more talent based than anything. Because Sullinger/Rondo certainly were given the green light to go for boards.

Then I will find a link that states Docs philosophy because I am 100% sure I remember someone stating Docs philosophy on offensive rebounding going all the way back to those years you claim because I just think you are completely wrong on this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y0aVBbVhf1g&safe=active

About 2:30 in

[Evantime34]

We definitely have a glaring need on offense and it brings me back to a deal I proposed about a week ago.  Send Avery Bradley and the 16th pick to a team in the 7-10 draft range and select Shabazz Muhammed and start him at the 2 alongside Rondo.  I watched this kid play 10 times this year and he can flat-out score.  He's a legit 6'6 and like Pierce, he can score in a myriad of ways. I also think he's a pure-shooter as well, although some might disagree.  Here's a video that kind of backs up my claim:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PawIt4Dd3hg

Shabazz is by far the most talented player in this draft, but he still needs to work on his game.  His handle, defense, and getting others involved are the parts of his game that need some work, but man can he play.  We need to take advantage of the fact that he's slipping and jump on him if he's there at 7-10.

He also shoots when he has wide open teammates. He is a player who pouted after his teammate hit a game winning shot because he didn't get the ball. We would be dealing a team first guy in Bradley plus the 16th pick for someone who cares more about the name on the back of jersey than the name on the front.

I know most people have turned on Bradley after the Knicks series but this guy was one of the best defenders in the league, playing out of position after coming off double shoulder surgery.

That's true Evan and although I really like Shabazz and what he can be I would not deal Avery and the 16th for him. However, if Minnesota would be interested in a package of Lee or Crawford and our 16th I'm pretty sure I would pull the trigger on that and I don't think that's too unreasonable. Minnesota gets a guard they have coveted for awhile and only drops back 7 spots.

Yeah I'm not a huge Shabazz fan, because of his attitude. Watching his video on draft express it seems that he predetermines his moves rather than altering his attack based on the defender. Avery also happens to be my favorite player on the team so you could see why I would be against that deal.

However, if we could move Lee and the 16th to get a player who at one point was considered a top 5 talent, I think that deal has to be accepted.  Maybe the Wolves would even take Lee for their pick straight up. They traded a similar pick for Chase Buddinger, who I think is comparable player to Lee.

[BleedGreen1989]

We definitely have a glaring need on offense and it brings me back to a deal I proposed about a week ago.  Send Avery Bradley and the 16th pick to a team in the 7-10 draft range and select Shabazz Muhammed and start him at the 2 alongside Rondo.  I watched this kid play 10 times this year and he can flat-out score.  He's a legit 6'6 and like Pierce, he can score in a myriad of ways. I also think he's a pure-shooter as well, although some might disagree.  Here's a video that kind of backs up my claim:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PawIt4Dd3hg

Shabazz is by far the most talented player in this draft, but he still needs to work on his game.  His handle, defense, and getting others involved are the parts of his game that need some work, but man can he play.  We need to take advantage of the fact that he's slipping and jump on him if he's there at 7-10.

He also shoots when he has wide open teammates. He is a player who pouted after his teammate hit a game winning shot because he didn't get the ball. We would be dealing a team first guy in Bradley plus the 16th pick for someone who cares more about the name on the back of jersey than the name on the front.

I know most people have turned on Bradley after the Knicks series but this guy was one of the best defenders in the league, playing out of position after coming off double shoulder surgery.

That's true Evan and although I really like Shabazz and what he can be I would not deal Avery and the 16th for him. However, if Minnesota would be interested in a package of Lee or Crawford and our 16th I'm pretty sure I would pull the trigger on that and I don't think that's too unreasonable. Minnesota gets a guard they have coveted for awhile and only drops back 7 spots.

Yeah I'm not a huge Shabazz fan, because of his attitude. Watching his video on draft express it seems that he predetermines his moves rather than altering his attack based on the defender. Avery also happens to be my favorite player on the team so you could see why I would be against that deal.

However, if we could move Lee and the 16th to get a player who at one point was considered a top 5 talent, I think that deal has to be accepted.  Maybe the Wolves would even take Lee for their pick straight up. They traded a similar pick for Chase Buddinger, who I think is comparable player to Lee.

Very true, I forgot about that trade hmmm

[Yoki_IsTheName]

We definitely have a glaring need on offense and it brings me back to a deal I proposed about a week ago.  Send Avery Bradley and the 16th pick to a team in the 7-10 draft range and select Shabazz Muhammed and start him at the 2 alongside Rondo.  I watched this kid play 10 times this year and he can flat-out score.  He's a legit 6'6 and like Pierce, he can score in a myriad of ways. I also think he's a pure-shooter as well, although some might disagree.  Here's a video that kind of backs up my claim:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PawIt4Dd3hg

Shabazz is by far the most talented player in this draft, but he still needs to work on his game.  His handle, defense, and getting others involved are the parts of his game that need some work, but man can he play.  We need to take advantage of the fact that he's slipping and jump on him if he's there at 7-10.

Me wants him in a Celtics uniform.

The red flags can be fixed, easily fixed with the locker room that we have.

He can potentially solve our scoring and offensive rebounding needs.