In hindsight, if you could change one move of Danny's, what would it be?

[FreeGreen]

Danny's biggest mistake was dissing Tony Allen so hard that he took less money to go to Memphis.

Allen is a STEAL at his current salary.  If Tony Allen stays, then we don't waste money on Marquis Daniels, Peaches, and string of other TERRIBLE swing men behind PP.

Plus -- if Marquis Daniels isn't around, then he doesn't get hurt, and Danny doesn't panic trade Perkins for Jeff Green. 

He either uses his leverage to move Perkins for Harden (which was the player he initially targeted), or we win the title that year with the team as constructed.

Most of Danny's worst moves are the result of him treating players like their cards in a card game instead of people.  He drove Tony Allen out of town. He dragged Ray Allen thru the mud so long he took less money to go to Miami.  He murdered the whole ethos of the team with the Perk trade. (And while that trade looks good now, we essentially traded a title shot (potentially 2) to be a slightly better mid-tier team in 2013/2014.  That's not value in my mind.)

He's an excellent draft evaluator, but his free agent signings are borderline criminal.  Besides resigning his own players, who's the best FA post-2008?  Stiemsma?

His big trades are good.  His little trades ... not so much. 

[BballTim]

Most of Danny's worst moves are the result of him treating players like their cards in a card game instead of people.  He drove Tony Allen out of town. He dragged Ray Allen thru the mud so long he took less money to go to Miami.  He murdered the whole ethos of the team with the Perk trade. (And while that trade looks good now, we essentially traded a title shot (potentially 2) to be a slightly better mid-tier team in 2013/2014.  That's not value in my mind.)

  Danny didn't drive Tony Allen out of town, the prospect of being behind Paul and Ray on the depth chart for the foreseeable future did. Likewise he didn't drive Ray out of town, Ray losing his spot in the lineup did that.

[aporel#18]

Sending Gody and Semih to the Cavs... Semih was so sad in that "the Association" video. They probably wouldn't contribute a lot that year, but for sure more than Troy Murphy.

TA is the biggest mistake, though, as us TA fans knew back then    The Marc Gasol mistake is IMO a bit of a reach. Before Marc was drafted, he wasn't well liked in Europe, and Barça sent him to Girona to get Fran Vazquez because they considered Fran the better player. Then he started playing better, losing weight, and in two years he was the MVP of the Spanish League. Very hard to guess by 2007.

[SHAQATTACK]

letting Tony Allen go.   

[Roy H.]

As much as Tony has been an okay player for Memphis, I'm skeptical that most people would want him back over a guy like Gasol or one of the other big men we passed on.

[StartOrien]

FWIW - here's a draft retrospect on Marc Gasol. Pretty interesting read: Tough to distinguish what you know, from what is said but it certainly seems like it was foolish, even then, for so many teams to have passed on him.

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/marc-gasol-155/

[Fafnir]

FWIW - here's a draft retrospect on Marc Gasol. Pretty interesting read: Tough to distinguish what you know, from what is said but it certainly seems like it was foolish, even then, for so many teams to have passed on him.

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/marc-gasol-155/

Part of the issue was he was playing a lot heavier than he does now, even as a professional.

How many big men never cut the weight they need to to reach their potential?

[StartOrien]

As much as Tony has been an okay player for Memphis, I'm skeptical that most people would want him back over a guy like Gasol or one of the other big men we passed on.

I think more people are looking at it as 'yes, we could've had Marc Gasol' but you can justify it w/ the fact that most other teams passed on twice. The people suggesting TA are saying it was unjustifiable because they absolutely knew he was going to stay healthy and play at a high level.

[Roy H.]

FWIW - here's a draft retrospect on Marc Gasol. Pretty interesting read: Tough to distinguish what you know, from what is said but it certainly seems like it was foolish, even then, for so many teams to have passed on him.

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/marc-gasol-155/

The knock on him, if I remember correctly, was that he was a skilled-but-slow center.  I always figured he'd be a decent center, though, and was disappointed at the time when we passed on him.  (My claim to fame regarding Gasol was that I drafted him in the very first CelticsBlog draft, either in 2007.)

Of course, I also was disappointed that we passed on Nick Fazekas.

[StartOrien]

FWIW - here's a draft retrospect on Marc Gasol. Pretty interesting read: Tough to distinguish what you know, from what is said but it certainly seems like it was foolish, even then, for so many teams to have passed on him.

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/marc-gasol-155/

Part of the issue was he was playing a lot heavier than he does now, even as a professional.

How many big men never cut the weight they need to to reach their potential?

Like, all of them?

Still, it's odd to read that a 7 foot center who could score from inside, midrange and was a great passer slipped as far as he did. But, it's not like I can say I was beating the draft Marc Gasol drum at the time.

[SHAQATTACK]

think letting TA go was a flat mistake.... a wrong so to speak,  not picking the right player in draft I a guess or judgement call.....just a prediction .....not a mistake......

mistake is taking a known quantity that is working good .and acting wrong on it....like TA or Perk an d Intentionally making a stupid move.

drafting is luck,  he could have, should have, might have doesn't matter ......can't predict injuries exc.

Shaqs injury forever changed the whole history of this team......as will the same thing LA will be saying years from now with Kobe's injury

[FreeGreen]

Here's the globe article on Ainge driving Tony Allen away:

http://www.boston.com/sports/basketball/celtics/articles/2010/07/12/tony_allen_signs_with_grizzlies/

Ray left partly because he of losing his starting spot, and partly because Danny kept trying (very publicly) to trade him to anyone and everyone.  I don't forgive Ray for leaving.  I think it shows he can be just as petty as Danny, but I can't say I don't understand why he might be upset.

[StartOrien]

Here's the globe article on Ainge driving Tony Allen away:

http://www.boston.com/sports/basketball/celtics/articles/2010/07/12/tony_allen_signs_with_grizzlies/

Ray left partly because he of losing his starting spot, and partly because Danny kept trying (very publicly) to trade him to anyone and everyone.  I don't forgive Ray for leaving.  I think it shows he can be just as petty as Danny, but I can't say I don't understand why he might be upset.

I'm with Roy - clearly years removed it was a mistake, but I don't have an issue w/ their logic at that point.

They had to resign Paul and Ray. Then they had to prioritize what to do next, and I could see why they'd want to hammer details down with Nate. Having an injury riddled career, I can see why Tony might not have been an immediate priority.

[Fafnir]

FWIW - here's a draft retrospect on Marc Gasol. Pretty interesting read: Tough to distinguish what you know, from what is said but it certainly seems like it was foolish, even then, for so many teams to have passed on him.

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/marc-gasol-155/

Part of the issue was he was playing a lot heavier than he does now, even as a professional.

How many big men never cut the weight they need to to reach their potential?

Like, all of them?

Yeah, that's what I thought too. Then Perkins lost probably 100 lbs after the C's drafted him and Gasol went from being "Pau has a brother?" to "holy crap he lost so much weight he looks like his brother!" to "holy crap he's good".

[dlpin]

I see that Shavlik Randolph was available. Clearly, Danny's biggest mistake was failing to lock him down back then.

But seriously, I think it's a little too easy to be biased in hindsight, so picking anyone in particular is not worthwhile. But lesser and younger - and mostly smaller - players were available (Brockman, Bonner, Amir Johnson, Korver, Barnes, Dorell Wright, Trav Outlaw, etc.).

And of course if Shaq had just remained healthy we'd have nothing to complain about.

I just have a feeling that Danny was gambling a bit too much on everything going right health-wise for these guys. No way to prove it, with all the uncertainty, but that's my gut.

I don't think he chose to gamble on everything going right health-wise. I simply don't think he had a choice. Given what he had to offer (MLE and min deals) he had to pick either good players who were injury risks or bad players who weren't. In this NBA it is almost impossible to find players who are cheap, healthy and good. You have to pick 2 out of 3, and he could only afford cheap.

Danny's biggest mistake was dissing Tony Allen so hard that he took less money to go to Memphis.

Allen is a STEAL at his current salary.  If Tony Allen stays, then we don't waste money on Marquis Daniels, Peaches, and string of other TERRIBLE swing men behind PP.

Plus -- if Marquis Daniels isn't around, then he doesn't get hurt, and Danny doesn't panic trade Perkins for Jeff Green. 

He either uses his leverage to move Perkins for Harden (which was the player he initially targeted), or we win the title that year with the team as constructed.

Most of Danny's worst moves are the result of him treating players like their cards in a card game instead of people.  He drove Tony Allen out of town. He dragged Ray Allen thru the mud so long he took less money to go to Miami.  He murdered the whole ethos of the team with the Perk trade. (And while that trade looks good now, we essentially traded a title shot (potentially 2) to be a slightly better mid-tier team in 2013/2014.  That's not value in my mind.)

He's an excellent draft evaluator, but his free agent signings are borderline criminal.  Besides resigning his own players, who's the best FA post-2008?  Stiemsma?

His big trades are good.  His little trades ... not so much. 

This is almost all wrong, I'm sorry.
Tony Allen left mostly for playing time. He didn't even give DA the chance to match Memphis' offer, because he knew he would be stuck behind Allen and Pierce in the rotation for the foreseeable future. And there was no way the Thunder were going to include Harden in the deal.

And he didn't drag Ray Allen through the mud. He considered a trade and didn't go through with it, and then offered double money and a no trade clause. Ray Allen left because of his role and because of his relationship with Rondo.

And finally, given only the MLE, please find me anyone better that the celtics could have signed since 2008.

Here's the globe article on Ainge driving Tony Allen away:

http://www.boston.com/sports/basketball/celtics/articles/2010/07/12/tony_allen_signs_with_grizzlies/

Ray left partly because he of losing his starting spot, and partly because Danny kept trying (very publicly) to trade him to anyone and everyone.  I don't forgive Ray for leaving.  I think it shows he can be just as petty as Danny, but I can't say I don't understand why he might be upset.

That is second hand reporting. Here's from Tony Allen himself on why he left:

http://sports.espn.go.com/boston/nba/news/story?id=5405599

http://www.celticstown.com/2010/07/24/tony-allen-was-tired-of-being-overshadowed/