Question regarding the salary cap and tanking for Wiggins or Parker

[chambers]

So if we decide to go down the tanking path, is Danny Ainge able to keep Pierce and KG's salary on the Roster for one more season, whilst they aren't playing?
So if we pick up Pierce's team option at 15 million, then waive him, and do the same with KG- My question is can we keep their salaries on the books?
This would be an advantage in tanking because it means that Pierce and KG retire Celtics but it also means we can't sign any free agents that would get us more wins whilst we're scraping the bottom of the barrel.

Of course Danny could get some assets like picks or young talent if he takes back crummy players like Boozer and Bargani from the Bulls and Raptors, but those guys would get us more wins when we don't want them.

In a perfect scenario we could field a terrible starting line up of:
Rondo
Bradley
Green
Sully
Rookie Center with 16th pick

Crawford
Bass
Lee
Scrub

Heck we'd even let Rondo sit for as long as possible to ensure more losses. This line up would barely beat the Bobcats in a 7 game series.

Is the above even possible?

[Banner18now!]

There is now way Ainge would pick up Pierce and then waive him to have 15 million of dead cap space. What advantage does that give you? If Ainge wanted to tank he could not pick up Pierce's option and not sign any top free agents and keep the cap space. Ainge doesn't have to use it.

[chambers]

There is now way Ainge would pick up Pierce and then waive him to have 15 million of dead cap space. What advantage does that give you? If Ainge wanted to tank he could not pick up Pierce's option and not sign any top free agents and keep the cap space. Ainge doesn't have to use it.

The minimum is $49.3 million. You must spend at least this much which is 85% of the cap. Next season you must spend at least 90% of the cap which will be over $52 million.

I want to know if we can keep them on the books somehow to make us as terrible as possible thus increasing our chances of drafting a game changer.

[hwangjini_1]

let me first plagerize the living bejeesus out of a post by wutang112878 over on the SOSH blog. this is about the best summary of what the celtics face that i have seen.

i have tweaked his post here and there, but most of it belongs to wutang. it wont answer all our questions, but it does give a very good start to conversations.

feel free to thank him, he'd appreciate your appreciation i am sure.

first, off here are essential links for CB discussions on salaries, etc.

SOSH link - http://sonsofsamhorn.net/topic/77403-201314-celtics-adding-talent/
basketball reference link - http://www.basketball-reference.com/contracts/BOS.html
larry coon's nba salary cap page -  http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm


second, wutang starts, appropriately with the celtic payroll, and the effects of the 12/13 payroll on free agency.  According to basketball reference the 12/13 payroll was $72.2M, and the celtics have $76M on the books for 13/14.   

however, according to hoopshype the 12/13 payroll was $75.4M, and the celtics have $73M on the books for 13/14.
 
The best CBA resource out there is handsdown the CBAFAQ which is maintained by Coon who is considered a cap/cba expert.
 
Some important CBA highlights that relate to the Celtics:
- For 12/13 the luxury tax threshold is/was $70.3M [so the Celts are most likely over that]
- In 11/12 the Celts paid a $7.4M luxury tax bill to the nba
- The MLE for 13/14 is $5.1M, but, MLE rules are complex: "This exception is available only when a team is below the "apron" (i.e., not paying luxury tax, or less than $4 million above the tax line). This determination is made after the exception is used, so a team below the apron cannot use this exception if doing so takes it above the apron."


This is important for the Celts, because at $73M or $76M, $73+$5=$78 and $76+$5=$81, and both of those put the Celts over $75.4M [$70.3M luxury tax + $5.1M exemption] level, so they can not use the full MLE.


but, the Celts can use, this is $3.8M in 13/14. this called the TAXPAYER MID-LEVEL EXCEPTION -- This exception is available only when a team is above the "apron" (i.e., with a
team salary $4 million or more above the tax line).

This determination is made after the exception is used, so a team below the apron must use this exception rather than the Non-Taxpayer Mid-Level exception if doing so takes them above the apron.

whew...complex stuff no doubt. but let's keep going.

Using this, would put the celtics at about $77M ($73+$4) or $80M ($76+$4).  if so, the Celtcs project to pay a $8.7M to $12.5M tax bill because of different brackets for the amount over the luxury tax.

final point here is that once a team uses its Non-Taxpayer Mid-Level exception, the apron effectively becomes a hard cap for the remainder of that season.

To try to summarize, because the celtics are over the luxury tax, the celtics can only use the tax payer MLE, it gives us a hard-cap, and we might have a $8.7M to $12.5M tax bill.
 

Free Agency Summary: When it comes to free agency the celtics will be lucky to even add a complimentary piece, they cant even afford a guy like Terry or Lee.  What is possible however, is for the celtics to pull off another Lee type deal where they do a sign and trade, but we can't do this if they use the tax payer MLE.  (mentioned above)

Overall, the options in free agency are very, very limited.  Also, adding the tax payer MLE assumes that Wyc & ownership are willing to pay a hefty tax bill for the 3rd year in a row.
 
that is, when it comes to free agents, unless there is a trade involving KG or pierce or rondo as some dimension of the entire change over, nothing important is about to happen.


Draft Summary: thankfully, the celtics have their own 1st round pick which will be somewhere in the mid to late teens.  they do not have a 2nd round pick, but ainge could probably buy one from another team if he wanted to (and that money doesnt count towards the luxury tax.)

this draft doesnt have any real franchise players, but, from about the 10th pick to the 20th or so, they are all the same. lots of potentially solid-good players who could complement stars  or come off the bench. this is the sort of draft ainge excels in i think.
 


2013/14 Roster: Currently this is what we have on the books (approx salary in parens)
PP (15), Rondo (12), KG (11), Green (9) , Bass (6.7) , Lee (5) , Terry (5) , Bradley (2.5), Crawford (2), Sully (1.3), Melo (1.3), Terrance Williams (1)

That's 12 guys, and the total roster can only have 15 players, 13 guys when we include the first rounder from this year's draft.
 
Overall Summary:
Without trades, what you see is probably what you get + a ~$4M player + late first rounder. that is, in all likelihood, the team you saw this year will be the team you see next year. which may not be sexy and new, but isnt terrible either.

Trades, other than PP, KG and Rondo we have:
- Green has roughly $18M due in the next 2 years
- Bass has roughly $14M due in the next 2 years
- Lee has rougly $16M due in the next 3 years
- Terry has rougly $10M due in the next 2 years
- Bradley has $2.3M next year and a restricted free agent $3.5M qualifying offer in 14/15
- Sully is very cost controlled for the next 4 years
- Crawford who has $2.1M for next year and a restricted free agent $3.2M qualifying offer in 14/15
- Melo is very cost controlled for the next 4 years, which is good given he needs a boatload of time to develop a better mental approach to rebounding.


trade value:
Because of their high salaries and a production that doesnt exactly outweigh the costs: Green, Bass, Lee and Terry have minimal trade value around the league.

Bradley, Sully, Crawford and Melo might have some value because they are cost controlled. but chances are ainge wont peddle them for a middling nba player. these are lottery tickets and ainge is about to enter nba rebuild land.

Overall, barring an amazing trade, the 13/14 team is going to look almost identical to the 12/13 team.

[chambers]

let me first plagerize the living bejeesus out of a post by wutang112878 over on the SOSH blog. this is about the best summary of what the celtics face that i have seen.

i have tweaked his post here and there, but most of it belongs to wutang. it wont answer all our questions, but it does give a very good start to conversations.

feel free to thank him, he'd appreciate your appreciation i am sure.

first, off here are essential links for CB discussions on salaries, etc.

SOSH link - http://sonsofsamhorn.net/topic/77403-201314-celtics-adding-talent/
basketball reference link - http://www.basketball-reference.com/contracts/BOS.html
larry coon's nba salary cap page -  http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm


second, wutang starts, appropriately with the celtic payroll, and the effects of the 12/13 payroll on free agency.  According to basketball reference the 12/13 payroll was $72.2M, and the celtics have $76M on the books for 13/14.   

however, according to hoopshype the 12/13 payroll was $75.4M, and the celtics have $73M on the books for 13/14.
 
The best CBA resource out there is handsdown the CBAFAQ which is maintained by Coon who is considered a cap/cba expert.
 
Some important CBA highlights that relate to the Celtics:
- For 12/13 the luxury tax threshold is/was $70.3M [so the Celts are most likely over that]
- In 11/12 the Celts paid a $7.4M luxury tax bill to the nba
- The MLE for 13/14 is $5.1M, but, MLE rules are complex: "This exception is available only when a team is below the "apron" (i.e., not paying luxury tax, or less than $4 million above the tax line). This determination is made after the exception is used, so a team below the apron cannot use this exception if doing so takes it above the apron."


This is important for the Celts, because at $73M or $76M, $73+$5=$78 and $76+$5=$81, and both of those put the Celts over $75.4M [$70.3M luxury tax + $5.1M exemption] level, so they can not use the full MLE.


but, the Celts can use, this is $3.8M in 13/14. this called the TAXPAYER MID-LEVEL EXCEPTION -- This exception is available only when a team is above the "apron" (i.e., with a
team salary $4 million or more above the tax line).

This determination is made after the exception is used, so a team below the apron must use this exception rather than the Non-Taxpayer Mid-Level exception if doing so takes them above the apron.

whew...complex stuff no doubt. but let's keep going.

Using this, would put the celtics at about $77M ($73+$4) or $80M ($76+$4).  if so, the Celtcs project to pay a $8.7M to $12.5M tax bill because of different brackets for the amount over the luxury tax.

final point here is that once a team uses its Non-Taxpayer Mid-Level exception, the apron effectively becomes a hard cap for the remainder of that season.

To try to summarize, because the celtics are over the luxury tax, the celtics can only use the tax payer MLE, it gives us a hard-cap, and we might have a $8.7M to $12.5M tax bill.
 

Free Agency Summary: When it comes to free agency the celtics will be lucky to even add a complimentary piece, they cant even afford a guy like Terry or Lee.  What is possible however, is for the celtics to pull off another Lee type deal where they do a sign and trade, but we can't do this if they use the tax payer MLE.  (mentioned above)

Overall, the options in free agency are very, very limited.  Also, adding the tax payer MLE assumes that Wyc & ownership are willing to pay a hefty tax bill for the 3rd year in a row.
 
that is, when it comes to free agents, unless there is a trade involving KG or pierce or rondo as some dimension of the entire change over, nothing important is about to happen.


Draft Summary: thankfully, the celtics have their own 1st round pick which will be somewhere in the mid to late teens.  they do not have a 2nd round pick, but ainge could probably buy one from another team if he wanted to (and that money doesnt count towards the luxury tax.)

this draft doesnt have any real franchise players, but, from about the 10th pick to the 20th or so, they are all the same. lots of potentially solid-good players who could complement stars  or come off the bench. this is the sort of draft ainge excels in i think.
 


2013/14 Roster: Currently this is what we have on the books (approx salary in parens)
PP (15), Rondo (12), KG (11), Green (9) , Bass (6.7) , Lee (5) , Terry (5) , Bradley (2.5), Crawford (2), Sully (1.3), Melo (1.3), Terrance Williams (1)

That's 12 guys, and the total roster can only have 15 players, 13 guys when we include the first rounder from this year's draft.
 
Overall Summary:
Without trades, what you see is probably what you get + a ~$4M player + late first rounder. that is, in all likelihood, the team you saw this year will be the team you see next year. which may not be sexy and new, but isnt terrible either.

Trades, other than PP, KG and Rondo we have:
- Green has roughly $18M due in the next 2 years
- Bass has roughly $14M due in the next 2 years
- Lee has rougly $16M due in the next 3 years
- Terry has rougly $10M due in the next 2 years
- Bradley has $2.3M next year and a restricted free agent $3.5M qualifying offer in 14/15
- Sully is very cost controlled for the next 4 years
- Crawford who has $2.1M for next year and a restricted free agent $3.2M qualifying offer in 14/15
- Melo is very cost controlled for the next 4 years, which is good given he needs a boatload of time to develop a better mental approach to rebounding.


trade value:
Because of their high salaries and a production that doesnt exactly outweigh the costs: Green, Bass, Lee and Terry have minimal trade value around the league.

Bradley, Sully, Crawford and Melo might have some value because they are cost controlled. but chances are ainge wont peddle them for a middling nba player. these are lottery tickets and ainge is about to enter nba rebuild land.

Overall, barring an amazing trade, the 13/14 team is going to look almost identical to the 12/13 team.

you are the man!
TP TP TP, really appreciated.
Thankyou.