NBA's all-time starting 5

[Who]

Third Team

G: Kidd
G: Kobe
F: Garnett
F: Barkley
C: Shaq

Kidd??

Sure. Terrific player.

I just didn't like the idea of Isiah on that team. Too high usage a scorer. Shaq and Kobe already there so I went with a lower usage PG like Kidd instead. But I would rate Isiah higher than Kidd for his role in winning two titles with the Pistons.

I thought Kidd had a higher peak than Stockton. Walt Frazier and Gary Payton were the two other choices in competition with Kidd. Little between those players but I went with Kidd. I just love the way he plays.

you had 4.5 centers and not one of them was Wilt.  I have a bigger issue than that than with Kidd.

I have Russell, Kareem and Shaq ahead of Wilt.

I am not sure how I would rank the next tier of Wilt, Moses, Duncan and Olajuwon.

You also had Olajuwon playing PF and Duncan (who was the half) playing PF.

They were guys who could play PF as well as C. Wilt wasn't.

[slamtheking]

C: Russell
PF: Bird
SF: Lebron (that hurts me to say that)
SG: Jordan
PG: Magic

terrific defensive team except for Larry Bird covering opponents Power Forwards. It would be a fun modern day lineup to watch.

Actually, Bird would fare decently as a PF.  good positioning, boxes out, rebounds well, Hi BBIQ to play passing lanes.  Traditionally, a lot of the high scorers in the NBA aren't PFs.  Players like KG and Duncan (guys big enough to play center and are athletic) would give him all he could handle but those are 2 of the best of all time.  I think Bird's contribution in the overall game outweighs what KG and Duncan bring. 

I think Bird at SF would get burned too much on D covering much quicker players.

[Donoghus]

If you have Bird & Lebron as your forwards, are you better off playing Bird at SF/Lebron at PF or vice versa?

Been back & forth on this.

[Roy H.]

I thought Kidd had a higher peak than Stockton. Walt Frazier and Gary Payton were the two other choices in competition with Kidd. Little between those players but I went with Kidd. I just love the way he plays.

You have Frazier and Payton ahead of Stockton, too?

In terms of peak-to-peak, here's Stockton's best versus Kidd's:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=stockjo01&y1=1990&p2=kiddja01&y2=1999

Stockton had a marginal lead in points and steals, a huge lead in assists, and a much better FG%, 3PT%, FT%, eFG%, and TS%.  I'd prefer Stockton, both at his peak and over the course of his career.

[The Rondo Show]

Magic
Jordan
Lebron
Chamberlain
Russel

[Roy H.]

If you have Bird & Lebron as your forwards, are you better off playing Bird at SF/Lebron at PF or vice versa?

Been back & forth on this.

I think Larry had a better body for defending PFs, and was a better rebounder.  Lebron's defensive play on the perimeter would be a better fit against opposing SFs.

Lebron is excellent in today's NBA as a PF, but he has admitted that he gets worn down defending against big men.  If you put him against some all-time greats, I think it would affect him more than Larry.

[edwardjkasche]

The team's only issue is that Russell is a 6'9" center who is a bit of a beanpole.  If this team is going against modern centers, he may have some issues despite his winner's heart.  Duncan helps compensate for Russell's lack of size, but it may be better to go with a center like Wilt, Kareem, or Hakeem (all 7-fts and all winners in their own rights).

A couple of quibbles here.  First, Hakeem wasn't 7'0", even though you'll see him listed at that height.  He's commonly regarded as being anywhere from 6'8" to 6'10".  Second, if Ben Wallace can contain modern centers, why should we believe that Russell couldn't?

The same way that Hakeem is "generously" listed as 7-ft, Russell is "generously" listed as 6'9".  Russell is probably closer to 6'7".  Also, Hakeem has greater length than Russell.

A few things about Wallace: He is believed to have outweighed Russell by 20-30lbs.  It makes a difference.  Also, Wallace didn't give much on offense.  He concentrated all his energy on defense and rebounding.

Also, I never said Russell couldn't guard modern centers.  I said it was the only potential issue with that lineup.  I'd be fine with Russell in there (even if he and Duncan switch spots), but I would also consider Wilt, Kareem, and Hakeem.

[Roy H.]

The same way that Hakeem is "generously" listed as 7-ft, Russell is "generously" listed as 6'9".  Russell is probably closer to 6'7".  Also, Hakeem has greater length than Russell.

What's this based upon?

Russell measured out as 6' 9 5/8" for Sports Illustrated, and was quoted as saying: "Don't call me 6-foot-10, I'm enough of a goon as it is."

That's without shoes, I believe.

[GreenFaith1819]

First Team

G: Magic
G: Jordan
F: Bird
F: Olajuwon
C: Russell

Second Team

G: Oscar
G: West
F: LeBron
F: Duncan
C: Kareem

Third Team

G: Kidd
G: Kobe
F: Garnett
F: Barkley
C: Shaq

Can't argue with these choices at all.

[Moranis]

Third Team

G: Kidd
G: Kobe
F: Garnett
F: Barkley
C: Shaq

Kidd??

Sure. Terrific player.

I just didn't like the idea of Isiah on that team. Too high usage a scorer. Shaq and Kobe already there so I went with a lower usage PG like Kidd instead. But I would rate Isiah higher than Kidd for his role in winning two titles with the Pistons.

I thought Kidd had a higher peak than Stockton. Walt Frazier and Gary Payton were the two other choices in competition with Kidd. Little between those players but I went with Kidd. I just love the way he plays.

you had 4.5 centers and not one of them was Wilt.  I have a bigger issue than that than with Kidd.

I have Russell, Kareem and Shaq ahead of Wilt.

I am not sure how I would rank the next tier of Wilt, Moses, Duncan and Olajuwon.

You also had Olajuwon playing PF and Duncan (who was the half) playing PF.

They were guys who could play PF as well as C. Wilt wasn't.

but you have Garnett and Barkley playing Forward on the same team.  I realize KG played SF the first year or so, but if you took that KG you would get crushed.  I just find it odd you would select 5 players that spent significant time at center and not one of them was the greatest and most dominant center in NBA history.

[Who]

Third Team

G: Kidd
G: Kobe
F: Garnett
F: Barkley
C: Shaq

Kidd??

Sure. Terrific player.

I just didn't like the idea of Isiah on that team. Too high usage a scorer. Shaq and Kobe already there so I went with a lower usage PG like Kidd instead. But I would rate Isiah higher than Kidd for his role in winning two titles with the Pistons.

I thought Kidd had a higher peak than Stockton. Walt Frazier and Gary Payton were the two other choices in competition with Kidd. Little between those players but I went with Kidd. I just love the way he plays.

you had 4.5 centers and not one of them was Wilt.  I have a bigger issue than that than with Kidd.

I have Russell, Kareem and Shaq ahead of Wilt.

I am not sure how I would rank the next tier of Wilt, Moses, Duncan and Olajuwon.

You also had Olajuwon playing PF and Duncan (who was the half) playing PF.

They were guys who could play PF as well as C. Wilt wasn't.

but you have Garnett and Barkley playing Forward on the same team.  I realize KG played SF the first year or so, but if you took that KG you would get crushed.  I just find it odd you would select 5 players that spent significant time at center and not one of them was the greatest and most dominant center in NBA history.

I thought that Garnett was fully capable at playing both forward positions and the center position at an MVP level when he was at his peak years. So I am perfectly happy with him at any of those three positions. 

However, I am pondering that Barkley selection. That was mostly a fun selection. I just really love the idea of Barkley on the court alongside so many of these other greats. He was so aggressive and dominant on that 1992 Dream Team. So good at feeding off of other great players and punishing opponents. A great fit in one of these type of teams.

Scottie Pippen would have been my next option instead of Barkley with Garnett moving back to the PF position. A great defensive setup around Shaq with Kidd, Kobe, Pippen and Garnett. The size, length, quickness and defensive capacity of that group would incredible to go up against. I wonder if that is a better team than the one with Barkley in it. Certainly much better defensively.

As for Wilt, I do not share your view that Wilt was the greatest and most dominant center in NBA History. I have Wilt somewhere in the second tier behind Russell and Kareem (both in my top five All-Time players). I have Shaq in that second tier too along with Duncan, Olajuwon, Moses and Wilt.

[mmmmm]

Third Team

G: Kidd
G: Kobe
F: Garnett
F: Barkley
C: Shaq

Kidd??

Sure. Terrific player.

I just didn't like the idea of Isiah on that team. Too high usage a scorer. Shaq and Kobe already there so I went with a lower usage PG like Kidd instead. But I would rate Isiah higher than Kidd for his role in winning two titles with the Pistons.

I thought Kidd had a higher peak than Stockton. Walt Frazier and Gary Payton were the two other choices in competition with Kidd. Little between those players but I went with Kidd. I just love the way he plays.

you had 4.5 centers and not one of them was Wilt.  I have a bigger issue than that than with Kidd.

I have Russell, Kareem and Shaq ahead of Wilt.

I am not sure how I would rank the next tier of Wilt, Moses, Duncan and Olajuwon.

You also had Olajuwon playing PF and Duncan (who was the half) playing PF.

They were guys who could play PF as well as C. Wilt wasn't.

but you have Garnett and Barkley playing Forward on the same team.  I realize KG played SF the first year or so, but if you took that KG you would get crushed.  I just find it odd you would select 5 players that spent significant time at center and not one of them was the greatest and most dominant center in NBA history.

Ah yes.  George Mikan.

 

[BballTim]

Third Team

G: Kidd
G: Kobe
F: Garnett
F: Barkley
C: Shaq

Kidd??

Sure. Terrific player.

I just didn't like the idea of Isiah on that team. Too high usage a scorer. Shaq and Kobe already there so I went with a lower usage PG like Kidd instead. But I would rate Isiah higher than Kidd for his role in winning two titles with the Pistons.

I thought Kidd had a higher peak than Stockton. Walt Frazier and Gary Payton were the two other choices in competition with Kidd. Little between those players but I went with Kidd. I just love the way he plays.

  If you're going lineup I'd go with McHale over Barkley with that lineup. You don't really need the rebounding with KG and Shaq (and Kevin), you don't really need the scoring either. McHale and KG are both versatile players and would be amazing on defense.

[Who]

I thought Kidd had a higher peak than Stockton. Walt Frazier and Gary Payton were the two other choices in competition with Kidd. Little between those players but I went with Kidd. I just love the way he plays.

You have Frazier and Payton ahead of Stockton, too?

In terms of peak-to-peak, here's Stockton's best versus Kidd's:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=stockjo01&y1=1990&p2=kiddja01&y2=1999

Stockton had a marginal lead in points and steals, a huge lead in assists, and a much better FG%, 3PT%, FT%, eFG%, and TS%.  I'd prefer Stockton, both at his peak and over the course of his career.

Hmm, I don't know. I hadn't really thought about it.

Frazier or Payton versus Stockton, I mean. Only Kidd versus Stockton and I take Kidd over Stockton. Then I thought some on Kidd vs Frazier/Payton.

I tend to prefer big guards over smaller ones. I love having big strong guards who are tough defensive players. Kidd, Frazier and Payton are amongst the best ever in that regard. Stockton was very good himself but no match for any of those three either as a defender or as a rebounder.

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I remember the 1996 playoff series when Payton played Stockton. Both players fairly close to their peak. Payton probably just entering his best years. Stockton coming to end of his.

And Payton ripped Stockton to shreds in that series.

So I probably take Payton at his peak over Stockton at his peak but Stockton's longevity might swing it back his way. Not sure.

---------------------------------------------------

Walt Frazier was an incredible defensive guard and possession creator. A very smooth scorer too. Better than Stockton in all three areas. Stockton has the edge passing wise.

NBA Finals Game 7 = 36 points, 19 assists and 7 rebounds.

Which surely has to be one of the most dominant performances of All-Time in a such a massive title deciding game.

I think Frazier gets overlooked in these (PGs) discussions.

Again, like Payton, I think superior peak but Stockton's vastly superior longevity probably swings it back his way.

--------------------------------------------

Stockton was clearly the more efficient and superior offensive threat while Kidd was the much superior defender and possession creator.

I don't think there was ever a point where Stockton was a top five player in the NBA. There definitely was a time with New Jersey that Kidd was there or thereabouts. He even finished 2nd for MVP one of those years if I remember correctly.

I am also hugely impressed by how Kidd took a relatively mediocre New Jersey Nets team to the Finals. Twice. With very little help around. I don't even think they had a second All-Star in either of those years. Sure the East was weak those years but it still an amazing achievement in my eyes.

I just don't think Stockton was quite the same driving force as Kidd was. 

I think Kidd's longevity fares well against Stockton's so I give the edge to Kidd due to superior peak.

[Fan from VT]

1st Team

Magic
Jordan
Lebron
Bird
Duncan


2nd Team

Oscar
West
Havlicek
KG
Russell


3rd Team

Stockton
Kobe
DrJ
Malone
Wilt