NBA's all-time starting 5

[mmmmm]

But KG chooses not to be in the low post as often.

That just means he plays differently.  It in no way means he is a lesser PF.

Duncan should be your choice if you want your PF to be more 'conventional' - a primarily low-post and baseline roaming big man on both ends of the court.

KG is a completely different beast.  He challenged the stereotypes of how the PF position should be played on both ends.  Yes, he could play down low and at the rim with the best.  But also was the prototypical 'stretch big' on offense and even could run the offense as point-forward.  And he may be the best high-paint defender ever, with his huge wing span and horizontal coverage denying passing and driving lanes and hedging the P&R.  The latter is why, without racking up huge 'counting' stats like steals and blocks, KG nevertheless has had such a huge, measurable impact (i.e. 'points') on the defensive end of the court when on and off the floor.  He just plain made it difficult for opposing _teams_ to take quality shots.

KG is one of the best PFs to ever play.


Duncan is the best PF to ever play.

That's your opinion and you are entitled to it.

We'll have to agree to disagree.

I like Duncan a lot.   I definitely feel like he and KG were easily the two top PFs of this last 15 years or so.   I don't normally like to say one is better than the other.  They play the same position very differently.   Duncan had the fortune to play on much better teams.   This makes comparisons difficult.

If we are going to take them based on better overall careers, Duncan has had more overall success and I'd give him the nod.

If we are going to take each player at his peak, then I'll take the 2003-2004 KG (and maybe even the 2007-2008 one).

[Moranis]

Since others have done other teams.

This is my 1st Team from page 1

Magic
Jordan
James
Bird
Chamberlain


2nd Team
Big O
West
Pippen
Duncan
Hakeem


3rd Team
Stockton
Bryant
Dr. J
Russell
Kareem

[ManUp]

Magic
Jordan
Bird
Garnett
Dream

That 5's only weakness would be deep shooting.

[GreenFaith1819]

Those who question KG's ability to play in the post...I won't youtube ppl to death, but there is a nice 5 min vid of KG doing plenty of post moves.

Plus, with what Flip Saunders asked KG to do in Minny - he just wasn't afforded much opportunity to play "exclusively" in the post...Flip had him playing ALL OVER the place.

Flip Saunders was desperate. The Minnesota Timberwolves' coach had lost his starting point guard during the 2004 Western Conference finals against the Lakers. His backup point guard was injured. Even a third point guard, imported from the CBA, was injured.

So who did Saunders decide should run the Minnesota offense?

Who else? Kevin Garnett. "It was him and Freddy Hoiberg. They were my point guards," Saunders said.

And what did Garnett take away from it all?

"It was the worst experience of my life," Garnett said. "But I have a lot of respect for the point guard position just because of that."

http://espn.go.com/boston/nba/story/_/id/7868121/2012-nba-playoffs-kevin-garnett-transformation-skinny-sf-all-nba-pf-center-boston-celtics-looking-tough-out

With that being said, I think it's a bit unfair to judge or slight KG because of some perceived notions about his post play or lack or it...I have nothing but love for Tim Duncan, but PLEASE consider carefully what KG did and was asked to do in Minny.

Plus, the 2003-04 KG could STILL play all 5 positions...he was a monster.

[bdm860]

As for Wilt, I do not share your view that Wilt was the greatest and most dominant center in NBA History. I have Wilt somewhere in the second tier behind Russell and Kareem (both in my top five All-Time players). I have Shaq in that second tier too along with Duncan, Olajuwon, Moses and Wilt.

I'd be interested to hear why you don't think Wilt was that great and why others are better than him.

Personally I agree with Moranis's comparison that Wilt was like LeBron James at the Center position.  My knock on Wilt is, despite dominating, he still didn't dominate like he should.  I would compare Wilt's commitment/mindset/focus to Shaq's in LA, where he feuded with Kobe, would come in out of shape, coast through the regular season, etc.  From about '96 to '06, Shaq probably could have won 10 straight MVP's if he really wanted to.  You think of greats like Jordan, Garnett, Russell, Bird who always had that intensity, they give 110%, 110% of the time, they have that killer instinct, they'll do whatever it takes to win.  I feel guys like Wilt and Shaq (and Dwight Howard now) really lack that.

I think if Wilt had that killer instinct, he would be hands down the greatest ever.  But the way it was, I feel like if you put Wilt and Russell on identical teams, Russell's team would still come out on top more often than Wilt's, that's why I'd give the nod to Russell.  (If you did the same thing with Shaq, Kareem, Hakeem, etc., I feel Wilt's team would win more often than not).

And if it's Wilt's lack of winning, think of it like this.  He still won 2 championships.  He faced Russell's Celtics 8 times (losing 7), and took them to 7 games 4 times (losing by a combined 9 points).  Really if it wasn't for Bill Russell, Chamberlain very well could have had 9 titles.

And there's no need to get into the individual stats because everybody knows those.

So why do you rank Wilt so low, or those other players so much higher than him?

[GreenFaith1819]

Based off of my last post, here is MY 5:

PG - Magic
SG - Mike
SF - KG
PF - Hakeem
C - Russell

Top THAT

[Yoki_IsTheName]

Mine goes like this.

PG - Magic
SG - Jordan
SF - Bird
PF - Duncan
C  - Shaq

My Center position should probably the most debatable, but 1-4 would be all time.

[Who]

As for Wilt, I do not share your view that Wilt was the greatest and most dominant center in NBA History. I have Wilt somewhere in the second tier behind Russell and Kareem (both in my top five All-Time players). I have Shaq in that second tier too along with Duncan, Olajuwon, Moses and Wilt.

I'd be interested to hear why you don't think Wilt was that great and why others are better than him.

Personally I agree with Moranis's comparison that Wilt was like LeBron James at the Center position.  My knock on Wilt is, despite dominating, he still didn't dominate like he should.  I would compare Wilt's commitment/mindset/focus to Shaq's in LA, where he feuded with Kobe, would come in out of shape, coast through the regular season, etc.  From about '96 to '06, Shaq probably could have won 10 straight MVP's if he really wanted to.  You think of greats like Jordan, Garnett, Russell, Bird who always had that intensity, they give 110%, 110% of the time, they have that killer instinct, they'll do whatever it takes to win.  I feel guys like Wilt and Shaq (and Dwight Howard now) really lack that.

I think if Wilt had that killer instinct, he would be hands down the greatest ever.  But the way it was, I feel like if you put Wilt and Russell on identical teams, Russell's team would still come out on top more often than Wilt's, that's why I'd give the nod to Russell.  (If you did the same thing with Shaq, Kareem, Hakeem, etc., I feel Wilt's team would win more often than not).

And if it's Wilt's lack of winning, think of it like this.  He still won 2 championships.  He faced Russell's Celtics 8 times (losing 7), and took them to 7 games 4 times (losing by a combined 9 points).  Really if it wasn't for Bill Russell, Chamberlain very well could have had 9 titles.

And there's no need to get into the individual stats because everybody knows those.

So why do you rank Wilt so low, or those other players so much higher than him?

More interested in individual accolades than winning Championships.

Self-involved player who could be difficult to play alongside (because of how much he wanted the ball and how little he tried to involve/help teammates early in his career). Weak mentality. Teams choked (1968 Sixers, 1969 Lakers) in part due to his lack of leadership. 

More raw talent than any player who ever played. When he was focused and team orientated, arguably the best player who ever walked. It just rarely happened.

[Onslaught]

Magic
Jordon
Bird
Duncan
Russell

That's my pick.

[Moranis]

As for Wilt, I do not share your view that Wilt was the greatest and most dominant center in NBA History. I have Wilt somewhere in the second tier behind Russell and Kareem (both in my top five All-Time players). I have Shaq in that second tier too along with Duncan, Olajuwon, Moses and Wilt.

I'd be interested to hear why you don't think Wilt was that great and why others are better than him.

Personally I agree with Moranis's comparison that Wilt was like LeBron James at the Center position.  My knock on Wilt is, despite dominating, he still didn't dominate like he should.  I would compare Wilt's commitment/mindset/focus to Shaq's in LA, where he feuded with Kobe, would come in out of shape, coast through the regular season, etc.  From about '96 to '06, Shaq probably could have won 10 straight MVP's if he really wanted to.  You think of greats like Jordan, Garnett, Russell, Bird who always had that intensity, they give 110%, 110% of the time, they have that killer instinct, they'll do whatever it takes to win.  I feel guys like Wilt and Shaq (and Dwight Howard now) really lack that.

I think if Wilt had that killer instinct, he would be hands down the greatest ever.  But the way it was, I feel like if you put Wilt and Russell on identical teams, Russell's team would still come out on top more often than Wilt's, that's why I'd give the nod to Russell.  (If you did the same thing with Shaq, Kareem, Hakeem, etc., I feel Wilt's team would win more often than not).

And if it's Wilt's lack of winning, think of it like this.  He still won 2 championships.  He faced Russell's Celtics 8 times (losing 7), and took them to 7 games 4 times (losing by a combined 9 points).  Really if it wasn't for Bill Russell, Chamberlain very well could have had 9 titles.

And there's no need to get into the individual stats because everybody knows those.

So why do you rank Wilt so low, or those other players so much higher than him?

More interested in individual accolades than winning Championships.

Self-involved player who could be difficult to play alongside (because of how much he wanted the ball and how little he tried to involve/help teammates early in his career). Weak mentality. Teams choked (1968 Sixers, 1969 Lakers) in part due to his lack of leadership. 

More raw talent than any player who ever played. When he was focused and team orientated, arguably the best player who ever walked. It just rarely happened.

Are you so sure Wilt wasn't doing what he was asked?

Wilt had already led the league in scoring in his first two NBA seasons, with averages of 37.6 and 38.4, when Frank McGuire took over as head coach of the Philadelphia Warriors and told Chamberlain he wanted him to score even more.

"I told coach McGuire I didn't think we could beat Boston," Wilt said in his 1973 autobiography. "I thought they just had too many good players. But I said I'd try my [dang]edest to do things his way.

"'OK,'" he said. "I've been through all the scouting reports and you're right. We aren't as good as Boston -- not with you scoring 37, 38 points a game like you did your first two years. We can't get enough scoring out of the rest of our guys to equal them. But if you can score 50, I think the rest of the guys can make up the difference to get us even with Boston.'

"Fifty?" I yelped. "Impossible."

"But Coach McGuire said he knew I could do it -- and he said I had to do it if we wanted a shot at the championship.

"I told him I thought the other players might be unhappy about that.

"'No, they won't,' he said. 'They're pros. They want to win and they know you're their meal ticket.' "

[D Dub]

Magic
Michael
Bird
Russell
Kareem


C'mon people, LBJ is not better than Larry Bird. 

This was cemented the moment he had to team up with his rivals to win a ring.  Lebron also benefits greatly from the new hand check rules.  Sure he's a supreme athlete, but will never be the shooter that Larry was.
LBJ playing in the 80's = Dominique Wilkins.

[Yogi]

Wilt was not unselfish.  At his best he averaged 8 assists a game... as a center and number one scoring option.  No matter how anyone looks at it, Wilt was statistically the most productive player probably in any sport.  He had double-triple-doubles (20-20-20) Quadruple double-doubles (40-40)unholy number of points (100 point game, 50ppg)and rebounds (55 rebound game, 23rpg for career!!!) etc.  Bill Russell was a greater competitor and a team leader which translated into being a more prolific winner.  Depending on how you define best you can make a case for Jordan, Russell or Wilt.  Statistically, Wilt Chamberlain is the most dominant and productive human being to play the game of basketball and it is not even close. 

[masteremile123]

Magic
Jordan
Bird
Kg
Duncan

Best offense-defense combo + they all compliment each other with kg shooting and duncan going inside (duncan could be replaced by Shaq)

[Yogi]

First Team because defense wins championships

Rajon Rondo - John Stoctkton
Michael Jordan
Larry Bird
Kevin Garnett - Karl Malone
Bill Russell

Second Team because offense is fun to watch

Magic Johnson
Kobe Bryant - Dwanye Wade
Lebron James
Tim Duncan
Wilt Chamberlin - Kareem Abdul Jabar

That would be a fun series.

[Moranis]

Magic
Michael
Bird
Russell
Kareem


C'mon people, LBJ is not better than Larry Bird. 

This was cemented the moment he had to team up with his rivals to win a ring.  Lebron also benefits greatly from the new hand check rules.  Sure he's a supreme athlete, but will never be the shooter that Larry was.
LBJ playing in the 80's = Dominique Wilkins.

Can we really blame Lebron that Cleveland in his 7 years there couldn't even get him a top 50 player in the league to play with?  To sum up how bad Cleveland's management was, they had Carlos Boozer.  They tried to pull a fast one with the rules and let Carlos Boozer leave.  People want to blame Boozer for that, but that was all on the Cavs management.  That is what Lebron was dealing with.  Lebron also suffers from being just so darn good almost immediately that he made Cleveland too good to have realistic shots at giving him talent in the draft.  The Cavs didn't linger in the lottery for awhile like Durant's Thunder.  The Cavs also didn't pull a Scottie Pippen out of thin air.  The Cavs didn't luck into a top 3 pick the year after Lebron was drafted like the Celtics did (in order to draft McHale).  I mean the Lakers landed Magic Johnson to a team that had a top 5 center of all time. 

Had Lebron James been drafted to a well run organization, he wouldn't have had to leave to win a title.  But the simple reality is the Cavs were a horribly run franchise that made horrid free agent decisions and drafted atrociously bad.  The new owner and management seems to actually be drafting fairly well, but they certainly did not when Lebron was there.