NBA's all-time starting 5

[CelticG1]

I find it almost impossible to leave Lebron off this list.

Funny since he still has about half his career to go.

[mmmmm]

Fun topic!  No perfect answer.

My 'head' says:

Magic
Jordan
Bird
KG
Russell

But my love of defense goes all edgy instead with

Payton
Jordan
Bird
KG
Russell

Jordan and Bird score enough to beat anyone.  They'd probably average 60 ppg as a twosome.   Payton, KG and Russell together would routinely hold other teams to 40 points total.   With KG & Russell up front, no one else would ever get a rebound.

Un-beatable.   Very complementary set of players, if you ask me.

Despite my respect for Magic, I just don't want any stinkin' Lakers on my 'Top 5'!!

And yeah, yeah, sure, Lebron probably will deserve a spot one day.  But he's not there yet.

[Moranis]

I know this is the Celticsblog, but Wilt was better than Bill.  Wilt always out performed Bill by a wide margin, including the head to head.  And before anyone goes crazy about the titles and winning and all the stuff that people use to overlook the vast stat disparity, I present the following 1963-64 teams

Boston Celtics without Bill
John Havlicek - HOF
Sam Jones - HOF
Tommy Heinsohn - HOF
KC Jones - HOF
Frank Ramsey - HOF
Clyde Lovellette - HOF
Tom Sanders - HOF as contributor
Willie Naulls
Jim Loscutoff
Larry Siegried (rookie)
Johnny McCarthy

or

San Francisco Warriors without Wilt
Nate Thurmond (rookie) - HOF
Al Attles
Tom Meschery
Wayne Hightower
Guy Rodgers
Gary Phillips
Gary Hill (rookie)
George Lee
Kenny Sears
John Windsor (rookie)

You can pretty much do this with any of Bill's Celtics' teams and any of Wilt's teams and get the same result until Wilt's Sixers team in 66-67 and then it was still just Wilt, Greer, Cunningham, and Chet Walker who was just elected to the HOF last year.  That was also the year Bill shaved his HOF teammates down to just Hondo, S. Jones, and Bailey Howell of course Boston also had Don Nelson (HOF coach), Tom Sanders (HOF contributor), and Wayne Embry (HOF contributor).

So when Bill and Wilt were both in their primes and both had the same amount of HOF teammates, Wilt's team destroyed Bill's.  Bill was blessed to have been on a team loaded with HOFers, while Wilt wasn't for much of his career.  Had Wilt been drafted to Boston and Bill been drafted to Philly, I have no doubt that Wilt would be the one with all of the titles and would be without question the greatest player that will EVER play the game.  The only reason it is in doubt is the titles, which Wilt couldn't do a darn thing about because his teammates just weren't very good.

[wdleehi]

Russel,11 titles.

[Fafnir]

Russel,11 titles.

I find the so many HoF teammates argument Russell a strange one.

Based on the stats and accounts of all those players its always seemed to me that a ton of C's got into the hall because they played on so many title teams. Can't say myself as I'm far too young.

Wilt was clearly the superior offensive force, the question is how much do you value defense, team play, and winning.

[Roy H.]

I know this is the Celticsblog, but Wilt was better than Bill.  Wilt always out performed Bill by a wide margin, including the head to head.  And before anyone goes crazy about the titles and winning and all the stuff that people use to overlook the vast stat disparity, I present the following 1963-64 teams

Boston Celtics without Bill
John Havlicek - HOF
Sam Jones - HOF
Tommy Heinsohn - HOF
KC Jones - HOF
Frank Ramsey - HOF
Clyde Lovellette - HOF
Tom Sanders - HOF as contributor
Willie Naulls
Jim Loscutoff
Larry Siegried (rookie)
Johnny McCarthy

or

San Francisco Warriors without Wilt
Nate Thurmond (rookie) - HOF
Al Attles
Tom Meschery
Wayne Hightower
Guy Rodgers
Gary Phillips
Gary Hill (rookie)
George Lee
Kenny Sears
John Windsor (rookie)

You can pretty much do this with any of Bill's Celtics' teams and any of Wilt's teams and get the same result until Wilt's Sixers team in 66-67 and then it was still just Wilt, Greer, Cunningham, and Chet Walker who was just elected to the HOF last year.  That was also the year Bill shaved his HOF teammates down to just Hondo, S. Jones, and Bailey Howell of course Boston also had Don Nelson (HOF coach), Tom Sanders (HOF contributor), and Wayne Embry (HOF contributor).

So when Bill and Wilt were both in their primes and both had the same amount of HOF teammates, Wilt's team destroyed Bill's.  Bill was blessed to have been on a team loaded with HOFers, while Wilt wasn't for much of his career.  Had Wilt been drafted to Boston and Bill been drafted to Philly, I have no doubt that Wilt would be the one with all of the titles and would be without question the greatest player that will EVER play the game.  The only reason it is in doubt is the titles, which Wilt couldn't do a darn thing about because his teammates just weren't very good.

I'd be curious to see whether all of those guys would have been HOFers without Russell.  It's hard to argue that guys like KC Jones, Satch Sanders, and Frank Ramsey make the Hall without all the winning that Russell brought.

EDIT:  Basically, what Fafnir was getting at.

[Celtic]

I love making lists like this.

Magic
Jordan
Bird
James
Russell

I don't see how anyone could beat this team. Although I'd love to see them play my all time second team which is...

Stockton
Bryant
Robertson
Duncan
Olajuwon

[fairweatherfan]

I hate comparing guys who played before I was born so this is based on players I've personally seen play (mid-80s to present):

Magic
Jordan
LeBron
Duncan
Olajuwon

2nd unit:
Stockton (sorry Isiah)
Kobe
Bird (sorry CB)
KG
Shaq

Deeper bench:
Pippen
Barkley

[Moranis]

Russel,11 titles.

I find the so many HoF teammates argument Russell a strange one.

Based on the stats and accounts of all those players its always seemed to me that a ton of C's got into the hall because they played on so many title teams. Can't say myself as I'm far too young.

Wilt was clearly the superior offensive force, the question is how much do you value defense, team play, and winning.

Wilt was a pretty darn good defender (I mean he was 1st team all defense a couple of years, this wasn't kept until latter part of Bill and Wilt's careers), he led the league in assists one year as well, was a better rebounder than Russell, etc.  I think people really discredit Wilt's all around game and just focus on the scoring.  But Wilt was an incredible all around player, he just wasn't blessed to play with players like Cousy, Hondo, and Sam Jones until he had been in the league a long time (he was basically like Lebron in that regard).  If Wilt had been drafted by Boston, he would have all of the titles not Bill.

[Moranis]

I found this to be a fascinating read with a lot of information I hadn't read before

http://www.nba.com/2011/history/features/12/26/giants-wilt/index.html

[Who]

I know this is the Celticsblog, but Wilt was better than Bill.  Wilt always out performed Bill by a wide margin, including the head to head.  And before anyone goes crazy about the titles and winning and all the stuff that people use to overlook the vast stat disparity, I present the following 1963-64 teams

Boston Celtics without Bill
John Havlicek - HOF
Sam Jones - HOF
Tommy Heinsohn - HOF
KC Jones - HOF
Frank Ramsey - HOF
Clyde Lovellette - HOF
Tom Sanders - HOF as contributor
Willie Naulls
Jim Loscutoff
Larry Siegried (rookie)
Johnny McCarthy

or

San Francisco Warriors without Wilt
Nate Thurmond (rookie) - HOF
Al Attles
Tom Meschery
Wayne Hightower
Guy Rodgers
Gary Phillips
Gary Hill (rookie)
George Lee
Kenny Sears
John Windsor (rookie)

You can pretty much do this with any of Bill's Celtics' teams and any of Wilt's teams and get the same result until Wilt's Sixers team in 66-67 and then it was still just Wilt, Greer, Cunningham, and Chet Walker who was just elected to the HOF last year.  That was also the year Bill shaved his HOF teammates down to just Hondo, S. Jones, and Bailey Howell of course Boston also had Don Nelson (HOF coach), Tom Sanders (HOF contributor), and Wayne Embry (HOF contributor).

So when Bill and Wilt were both in their primes and both had the same amount of HOF teammates, Wilt's team destroyed Bill's.  Bill was blessed to have been on a team loaded with HOFers, while Wilt wasn't for much of his career.  Had Wilt been drafted to Boston and Bill been drafted to Philly, I have no doubt that Wilt would be the one with all of the titles and would be without question the greatest player that will EVER play the game.  The only reason it is in doubt is the titles, which Wilt couldn't do a darn thing about because his teammates just weren't very good.

Didn't Philly have pretty much the same team the next season in 1968 when Russell's Boston team beat Wilt's 76ers team?

[KGs Knee]

Magic
Jordon
Bird
Duncan
Russell

Substitute Garnett for Duncan, and you've got a winner.

[Moranis]

I know this is the Celticsblog, but Wilt was better than Bill.  Wilt always out performed Bill by a wide margin, including the head to head.  And before anyone goes crazy about the titles and winning and all the stuff that people use to overlook the vast stat disparity, I present the following 1963-64 teams

Boston Celtics without Bill
John Havlicek - HOF
Sam Jones - HOF
Tommy Heinsohn - HOF
KC Jones - HOF
Frank Ramsey - HOF
Clyde Lovellette - HOF
Tom Sanders - HOF as contributor
Willie Naulls
Jim Loscutoff
Larry Siegried (rookie)
Johnny McCarthy

or

San Francisco Warriors without Wilt
Nate Thurmond (rookie) - HOF
Al Attles
Tom Meschery
Wayne Hightower
Guy Rodgers
Gary Phillips
Gary Hill (rookie)
George Lee
Kenny Sears
John Windsor (rookie)

You can pretty much do this with any of Bill's Celtics' teams and any of Wilt's teams and get the same result until Wilt's Sixers team in 66-67 and then it was still just Wilt, Greer, Cunningham, and Chet Walker who was just elected to the HOF last year.  That was also the year Bill shaved his HOF teammates down to just Hondo, S. Jones, and Bailey Howell of course Boston also had Don Nelson (HOF coach), Tom Sanders (HOF contributor), and Wayne Embry (HOF contributor).

So when Bill and Wilt were both in their primes and both had the same amount of HOF teammates, Wilt's team destroyed Bill's.  Bill was blessed to have been on a team loaded with HOFers, while Wilt wasn't for much of his career.  Had Wilt been drafted to Boston and Bill been drafted to Philly, I have no doubt that Wilt would be the one with all of the titles and would be without question the greatest player that will EVER play the game.  The only reason it is in doubt is the titles, which Wilt couldn't do a darn thing about because his teammates just weren't very good.

Didn't Philly have pretty much the same team the next season in 1968 when Russell's Boston team beat Wilt's 76ers team?

Yes and No.  Cunningham got hurt in the first round and didn't play at all against Boston.  Most of the team was the same, but Cunningham not being there was a huge factor in the series.

[BballTim]

I know this is the Celticsblog, but Wilt was better than Bill.  Wilt always out performed Bill by a wide margin, including the head to head.  And before anyone goes crazy about the titles and winning and all the stuff that people use to overlook the vast stat disparity, I present the following 1963-64 teams

Boston Celtics without Bill
John Havlicek - HOF
Sam Jones - HOF
Tommy Heinsohn - HOF
KC Jones - HOF
Frank Ramsey - HOF
Clyde Lovellette - HOF
Tom Sanders - HOF as contributor
Willie Naulls
Jim Loscutoff
Larry Siegried (rookie)
Johnny McCarthy

or

San Francisco Warriors without Wilt
Nate Thurmond (rookie) - HOF
Al Attles
Tom Meschery
Wayne Hightower
Guy Rodgers
Gary Phillips
Gary Hill (rookie)
George Lee
Kenny Sears
John Windsor (rookie)

You can pretty much do this with any of Bill's Celtics' teams and any of Wilt's teams and get the same result until Wilt's Sixers team in 66-67 and then it was still just Wilt, Greer, Cunningham, and Chet Walker who was just elected to the HOF last year.  That was also the year Bill shaved his HOF teammates down to just Hondo, S. Jones, and Bailey Howell of course Boston also had Don Nelson (HOF coach), Tom Sanders (HOF contributor), and Wayne Embry (HOF contributor).

So when Bill and Wilt were both in their primes and both had the same amount of HOF teammates, Wilt's team destroyed Bill's.  Bill was blessed to have been on a team loaded with HOFers, while Wilt wasn't for much of his career.  Had Wilt been drafted to Boston and Bill been drafted to Philly, I have no doubt that Wilt would be the one with all of the titles and would be without question the greatest player that will EVER play the game.  The only reason it is in doubt is the titles, which Wilt couldn't do a darn thing about because his teammates just weren't very good.

  Did you actually watch these guys play on a regular basis? Can you state with certainty that the number of HOF players wouldn't be reversed if Wilt's teams won titles every year and the Celts didn't? It's not like all those guys were putting up numbers like Bird or Magic.

[wdleehi]

Magic
Jordon
Bird
Duncan
Russell

Substitute Garnett for Duncan, and you've got a winner.

I like prime Duncan better.  More likely to work the low post on offense.