Time to Blow It Up

[JHTruth]

Tank...tank...tank!

And run the risk of being the Bobcats.

Yeah, screw that.

If we're going to rebuild , it will be through trades and free agency.  Book it.

Even without KG and Paul, we are too good to land a top 5 pick with Rondo and Green alone.

We may miss the Playoffs, but we are not getting a top 5 pick with Rondo and Green in our lineup. We'll have to trade one or both of them.

Besides, the 2014 draft is deep with talent, even at the mid rounds we can steal a gem, we dont need to tank. Just look at the guys from this year who are staying in school...

Kyle Anderson, UCLA (Fr., SF, 6-9, 235)
Jahii Carson, Arizona State (Fr., PG, 5-10, 180)
Willie Cauley-Stein, Kentucky (Fr., C, 7-0, 220)
C.J. Fair, Syracuse (Jr., F, 6-8, 215)
P.J. Hairston, North Carolina (Soph., 6-5, 225)
Gary Harris, Michigan State (Fr., SG, 6-4, 205)
Cory Jefferson, Baylor (Jr., PF, 6-9, 230)
James Michael McAdoo, North Carolina (Soph., PF, 6-9, 230)
Doug McDermott, Creighton (Jr., PF, 6-8, 225)
Mitch McGary, Michigan (Fr., C, 6-10, 250)
Eric Moreland, Oregon State (Soph., F, 6-10, 215)
Shabazz Napier, UConn (Jr., PG, 6-1, 171)
LeBryan Nash, Oklahoma State (Soph., SF, 6-7, 230)
Dwight Powell, Stanford, PF (Jr., 6-10, 235)
Alex Poythress, Kentucky (Fr., PF, 6-7, 239)
Glenn Robinson III, Michigan (Fr., SF, 6-7, 210)
Marcus Smart, Oklahoma State (Fr., PG, 6-4, 225)
Russ Smith, Louisville (Jr., G, 6-0, 165)
Isaiah Sykes, UCF (Jr, G, 6-5, 215)
T.J. Warren, North Carolina State (Fr., SF, 6-7, 230)
C.J. Wilcox, Washington (Jr., SG, 6-5, 195)
Patric Young, Florida (Jr., PF/C, 6-9, 249)

assuming everyone of those goes, along with Wiggins, Parker, the Harrison twins, Tarscewski, AJ Hammonds (love this guy), we don't need to tank to get a quality player to add to Rondo and Green.

We do need to dump some salaries this year. Obviously our signings did not work, we have to somehow flip that for anything we can get and sign some new FA's and see if they can do a better job (MY BOY JASON SMITH is available).

JASON SMITH? Who is that?

MID FIRST ROUND PICKS ARE NOT FRANCHISE PLAYERS. Come on now. We need superstar level talent. 2014 is easily the best chance we've had in years to acquire great talent in the draft. YOU DO NOT PASS THAT UP..

[eugen]

The only upside I can think of for this impending embarrassment at the hands of the Knicks is that it should leave no doubt whatsoever that this team is past the point where it can compete anymore.

Missing Rondo is huge.  Don't get me wrong. 

But if Danny Ainge, figuratively speaking, looks all of us Celtics fans in the eyes this summer and says "We're going to contend again next year," he should be fired.  I've generally been a Danny supporter, but if this team isn't fully committed to a rebuild at the start of next season, I want him gone.  Running back this tired group again would be GM malpractice.

The run last summer gave us all hope that we could have a couple more years of being relevant.  It's pretty clear now that that was a foolish dream.  It's too bad that this era couldn't end on a positive note more like last season, but it is what it is. 

It's time to start over.

Rondo is a great player to pass and make some plays but who can score 30+. He is not a great scorer. So even he can play Vs NYK, Cs can not win for now. Low field % is now the big issue, plus missing a big guy to help you rebounding

[bobbyv]

The only upside I can think of for this impending embarrassment at the hands of the Knicks is that it should leave no doubt whatsoever that this team is past the point where it can compete anymore.

Missing Rondo is huge.  Don't get me wrong. 

But if Danny Ainge, figuratively speaking, looks all of us Celtics fans in the eyes this summer and says "We're going to contend again next year," he should be fired.  I've generally been a Danny supporter, but if this team isn't fully committed to a rebuild at the start of next season, I want him gone.  Running back this tired group again would be GM malpractice.

The run last summer gave us all hope that we could have a couple more years of being relevant.  It's pretty clear now that that was a foolish dream.  It's too bad that this era couldn't end on a positive note more like last season, but it is what it is. 

It's time to start over.

Rondo is a great player to pass and make some plays but who can score 30+. He is not a great scorer. So even he can play Vs NYK, Cs can not win for now. Low field % is now the big issue, plus missing a big guy to help you rebounding

And WHY do you think we have a low field goal %?

[BballTim]

The only upside I can think of for this impending embarrassment at the hands of the Knicks is that it should leave no doubt whatsoever that this team is past the point where it can compete anymore.

Missing Rondo is huge.  Don't get me wrong. 

But if Danny Ainge, figuratively speaking, looks all of us Celtics fans in the eyes this summer and says "We're going to contend again next year," he should be fired.  I've generally been a Danny supporter, but if this team isn't fully committed to a rebuild at the start of next season, I want him gone.  Running back this tired group again would be GM malpractice.

The run last summer gave us all hope that we could have a couple more years of being relevant.  It's pretty clear now that that was a foolish dream.  It's too bad that this era couldn't end on a positive note more like last season, but it is what it is. 

It's time to start over.

Rondo is a great player to pass and make some plays but who can score 30+. He is not a great scorer. So even he can play Vs NYK, Cs can not win for now. Low field % is now the big issue, plus missing a big guy to help you rebounding

And WHY do you think we have a low field goal %?

  I know. How hard it it to make the connection?

[Yoki_IsTheName]

Tank...tank...tank!

And run the risk of being the Bobcats.

Yeah, screw that.

If we're going to rebuild , it will be through trades and free agency.  Book it.

Even without KG and Paul, we are too good to land a top 5 pick with Rondo and Green alone.

We may miss the Playoffs, but we are not getting a top 5 pick with Rondo and Green in our lineup. We'll have to trade one or both of them.

Besides, the 2014 draft is deep with talent, even at the mid rounds we can steal a gem, we dont need to tank. Just look at the guys from this year who are staying in school...

Kyle Anderson, UCLA (Fr., SF, 6-9, 235)
Jahii Carson, Arizona State (Fr., PG, 5-10, 180)
Willie Cauley-Stein, Kentucky (Fr., C, 7-0, 220)
C.J. Fair, Syracuse (Jr., F, 6-8, 215)
P.J. Hairston, North Carolina (Soph., 6-5, 225)
Gary Harris, Michigan State (Fr., SG, 6-4, 205)
Cory Jefferson, Baylor (Jr., PF, 6-9, 230)
James Michael McAdoo, North Carolina (Soph., PF, 6-9, 230)
Doug McDermott, Creighton (Jr., PF, 6-8, 225)
Mitch McGary, Michigan (Fr., C, 6-10, 250)
Eric Moreland, Oregon State (Soph., F, 6-10, 215)
Shabazz Napier, UConn (Jr., PG, 6-1, 171)
LeBryan Nash, Oklahoma State (Soph., SF, 6-7, 230)
Dwight Powell, Stanford, PF (Jr., 6-10, 235)
Alex Poythress, Kentucky (Fr., PF, 6-7, 239)
Glenn Robinson III, Michigan (Fr., SF, 6-7, 210)
Marcus Smart, Oklahoma State (Fr., PG, 6-4, 225)
Russ Smith, Louisville (Jr., G, 6-0, 165)
Isaiah Sykes, UCF (Jr, G, 6-5, 215)
T.J. Warren, North Carolina State (Fr., SF, 6-7, 230)
C.J. Wilcox, Washington (Jr., SG, 6-5, 195)
Patric Young, Florida (Jr., PF/C, 6-9, 249)

assuming everyone of those goes, along with Wiggins, Parker, the Harrison twins, Tarscewski, AJ Hammonds (love this guy), we don't need to tank to get a quality player to add to Rondo and Green.

We do need to dump some salaries this year. Obviously our signings did not work, we have to somehow flip that for anything we can get and sign some new FA's and see if they can do a better job (MY BOY JASON SMITH is available).

JASON SMITH? Who is that?

MID FIRST ROUND PICKS ARE NOT FRANCHISE PLAYERS. Come on now. We need superstar level talent. 2014 is easily the best chance we've had in years to acquire great talent in the draft. YOU DO NOT PASS THAT UP..

They are not, but they can certainly be a big piece to add to Rondo and Green (and Sully to some extent).

You can get guys like Wilson Chandler, ROY HIBBERT, Robin Lopez, SERGE IBAKA, Ryan Anderson, JRUE HOLIDAY, LARRY SANDERS, Kawhi Leonard, Nikola Vucevic in the mid rounds. They are no franchise players for sure, but they are big part of their teams' success and we can get that in the 12's-20's of the draft.

You have a solid core with a stable system and familiarity with that core (who by the way is CHEAP), why break that up? You just add more pieces to it, along with a little luck and you get a contender.

Jason Smith plays for the Pelicans.

http://espn.go.com/nba/player/_/id/3232/jason-smith

He's providing solid back up minutes before he injured his shoulder.

He's the guy who tackled Blake Griffin. His gritty, he can make mid range shots. My Boy!

[PhoSita]

Yeah..the whole 'time to blow it up' argument now is kind of flimsy. That's like trying to sell a horse right after it breaks an ankle.

To be clear, when I say "blow it up" what I mean, by way of your analogy, is putting the horse down and starting over with a new one.

I'm well aware that we're not getting anything in return for Pierce, Garnett, and Terry at this point.  I think we can get something for Rondo in the future, but we should probably wait for him to have a good, full healthy season at an All-Star level before trading him.

[EJPLAYA]

It's still in KG's hands.

At least all the doubters can now have the proof they need to finally accept how good Rondo is, and how much of a difference he makes on this team.

With Rondo we were one game away from the Finals last year.  Without him this year, we're toast.  You'd have to be blind, or just plain stubborn, to not acknowledge this.

This is all I'm gonna say at this point.  I'm not ready to predict what lies ahead, especially when the direction of the teams lies in the hands of a wounded warrior like KG.  He likely isn't going to decide, himself, until months from now.

That, and, I bummed right now.

With Rondo on this team this year we were still a 500 ball club and still would be first round out.

  We go through long stretches playing .500 ball every year and we've never been first round out before. There's no reason to believe this year is wildly different from the past 3.

The "stretch" of 500 ball was the entire season up to that point with us rarely going on a winning streak longer than a few games. That doesn't really qualify as a "stretch". That is who we were.

  It was a little longer that the 34 game stretch of .500 ball to start the 2012 season (when we went to the ecf) and a little shorter than the 54 game stretch of .500 ball in the 2010 season when we went to the finals. If you want to call it something other than a stretch, fine. If you want to say we haven't seen the same thing before you weren't paying a lot of attention those seasons.

And none of that means anything unless you come to admit that PP and KG are done. When you have two hall of famers you might be able to turn it on in the playoffs and compete. We now have 2 old guys who aren't near the players they once were. Especially defensively. Sure they are wiley enough to throw some stats on the board here and there. They aren't however good enough to do it when it matters and the other team decides to take them away. That isn't a criticism of them, just plain facts. They are old. The team used to be able to overcome Rondo's deficiencies since they (plus Ray) were so good. That day is over though and Rondo is just going to be deficient. Talented, but not close to being able to carry a team with major flaws like we will have.

[Moranis]

Yeah..the whole 'time to blow it up' argument now is kind of flimsy. That's like trying to sell a horse right after it breaks an ankle.

To be clear, when I say "blow it up" what I mean, by way of your analogy, is putting the horse down and starting over with a new one.

I'm well aware that we're not getting anything in return for Pierce, Garnett, and Terry at this point.  I think we can get something for Rondo in the future, but we should probably wait for him to have a good, full healthy season at an All-Star level before trading him.

but then he is an expiring contract which diminishes his value.

[Celtics4ever]

Rondo is a great player to pass and make some plays but who can score 30+. He is not a great scorer. So even he can play Vs NYK, Cs can not win for now. Low field % is now the big issue, plus missing a big guy to help you rebounding

I think Rondo makes things easier for PP and KG.  They get better shots and less rushed shots with him at the PG.   Too many ball out shots at the end of the shot clock because we do not have a PG on the roster.

[PhoSita]

Yeah..the whole 'time to blow it up' argument now is kind of flimsy. That's like trying to sell a horse right after it breaks an ankle.

To be clear, when I say "blow it up" what I mean, by way of your analogy, is putting the horse down and starting over with a new one.

I'm well aware that we're not getting anything in return for Pierce, Garnett, and Terry at this point.  I think we can get something for Rondo in the future, but we should probably wait for him to have a good, full healthy season at an All-Star level before trading him.

but then he is an expiring contract which diminishes his value.

Not as much as a knee injury.  I also don't really agree necessarily.  We see plenty of stars get traded a year or so before their new contract. 

It does mean that we'd probably have to trade somewhere that he'd ostensibly be willing to re-sign, but with Rondo I don't think that would limit the possible trade destinations by a lot.  He doesn't strike me as the sort of player who needs to be somewhere we he gets a lot of attention.  Just a team that gives him the opportunity to win.

[Kane3387]

Lol the time to blow it up was two years ago when our vets actually had trade value. At this point, our team will be blown up naturally when kg and pierce retire after sunday... And it will take exponentially longer for us to become relevant again.

Pierce ain't walking away from 16 mill. Would be surprised if the all star kg walked away from 11 mill. Real surprised.

Both these guys can still contribute a ton to a team, they just can't carry a team.

[bobbyv]

Lol the time to blow it up was two years ago when our vets actually had trade value. At this point, our team will be blown up naturally when kg and pierce retire after sunday... And it will take exponentially longer for us to become relevant again.

Pierce ain't walking away from 16 mill. Would be surprised if the all star kg walked away from 11 mill. Real surprised.

Both these guys can still contribute a ton to a team, they just can't carry a team.

I wonder if Danny will pay him.

[Who]

Lol the time to blow it up was two years ago when our vets actually had trade value. At this point, our team will be blown up naturally when kg and pierce retire after sunday... And it will take exponentially longer for us to become relevant again.

Pierce ain't walking away from 16 mill. Would be surprised if the all star kg walked away from 11 mill. Real surprised.

Both these guys can still contribute a ton to a team, they just can't carry a team.

I wonder if Danny will pay him.

I wouldn't be surprised if Pierce looked for an extension this summer. Offered to opt out of his deal if they have an agreement in place for say a new 3 year deal.

Say $25-30 million over three years.

[CelticConcourse]

Lol the time to blow it up was two years ago when our vets actually had trade value. At this point, our team will be blown up naturally when kg and pierce retire after sunday... And it will take exponentially longer for us to become relevant again.

Pierce ain't walking away from 16 mill. Would be surprised if the all star kg walked away from 11 mill. Real surprised.

Both these guys can still contribute a ton to a team, they just can't carry a team.

I wonder if Danny will pay him.

I wouldn't be surprised if Pierce looked for an extension this summer. Offered to opt out of his deal if they have an agreement in place for say a new 3 year deal.

Say $25-30 million over three years.

I would take it in a heartbeat. Many wouldn't.

[Lucky17]

Lol the time to blow it up was two years ago when our vets actually had trade value. At this point, our team will be blown up naturally when kg and pierce retire after sunday... And it will take exponentially longer for us to become relevant again.

Pierce ain't walking away from 16 mill. Would be surprised if the all star kg walked away from 11 mill. Real surprised.

Both these guys can still contribute a ton to a team, they just can't carry a team.

I wonder if Danny will pay him.

I wouldn't be surprised if Pierce looked for an extension this summer. Offered to opt out of his deal if they have an agreement in place for say a new 3 year deal.

Say $25-30 million over three years.

It's come up before, and someone more knowledgeable than I has demonstrated how this isn't possible. Wish I could find that post.

It may be because it's the Celtics who have the option (not the player), and that Pierce's current contract isn't of sufficient length to be eligible for a renegotiation/extension.

Edit: I'll look into this a bit. Larry Coon's CBA FAQ suggests it may be possible. Need to read the fine print a bit more closely.