the "big" lineup vs. NYK

[D Dub]

haven't seen much talk about Paul sliding over to the 2 against NYK.  Curious what folks think

I like that it puts Jeff Green on the floor more, and primarily on Melo. 

What I don’t like is the Kidd/Pierce matchup.  While I can see P literally frothing to isolate this mismatch, it’s really not in our favor.  See, Paul is a cerebral scorer – rarely outquicks anyone.  Problem is, Jason Kidd is the one defender in the league you don’t outsmart – you have to outquick him.  Even giving up all that height, he’s forcing our offense to their 2nd/3rd options and contesting every stepback midranger P puts up. 

At the end of the day, it breaks down to Doc letting Woodson get away with playing Jason Kidd out of position at 2 guard by matching him up against someone from his own age bracket.

One way to take back this advantage is to scrap the ‘big’ lineup and make Kidd matchup against Crawford.
Going against a younger quicker more unpredictable scorer, Kidd would get exploited.  Then you slide both P and Jeff up the 3 and 4 and let Bass come off the bench.  That gives our second unit more punch, and could also allow Doc a nice defensive rotation of Jeff and Bass to throw at Melo. 

If I’m Doc, that’s my game 2 adjustment.  Start Jordan Crawford and give him the green light against Kidd.

[KGs Knee]

Start Crawford???

The lineup we should be running out is Bradley/Lee/Pierce/Green/Garnett.  Hopefully KG can go more than his normal allotment of 1st quarter minutes, or we're stuck having Bass on Chandler (not good).

The two biggest possible match-up disadvantages we have  against us are Bass v. Chandler and our 4 man front-court v. NY's 3 man back-court.  We need to avoid those two scenarios as much as possible.

[CelticG1]

I like it.

Its a complete mismatch at this point. Paul exploited it pretty good in game 1. Got to the line a bunch and in the paint. He was facilitating and scoring. His shot wasn't falling especially from 3 point range but I don't think you can ask for a better match up in this stage of Kidds career.

Lets not forget that was one of Kidds best games of the season as well

[ben]

very interesting. 

I am actually looking for Williams to play some point guard.  It makes us bigger while getting some one out there that can distribute and make plays. 

I am incredulous that game one bench consisted of 3 shooting guards that are each currently playing very poorly (gotta call a spade a spade)

I am in favor of going big.  Lets start wilcox KG, and bring Randolf Bass off the bench, or some combination of these four, let williams play some point and really hammer NY with defense effort and height. 

honestly if I don't see Terry/lee/crawford on the court the rest of this series I would not mind. 

Go green.  I expect these all these guys to play out of their minds tonight anyway. Go Green!

[Who]

I dislike it. Bad spacing offensively against that Knicks defense with the quickness they have with their guards and forwards (even Tyson). Too easy to take away Pierce's size advantage and force Bass + Bradley + Garnett into long two point jump-shots.

I want to go small too. Drop Bass for a two guard and slide Jeff Green to power forward. I was thinking of a defensive option in Courtney Lee rather than Jordan Crawford though. I don't trust Jordan Crawford.

[KGs Knee]

After re-reading the OP, I agree with the point being made.  However, Kidd is not slated to start for NY, so why would we start Crawford if that is who we want matching-up against Kidd?

We need to start Lee.  Let Bass come off the bench.  There really just isn't very many good match-ups for him in this series.  NY just doesn't play a traditional PF for long stretches.

[CelticG1]

I thought the spacing was fine. We scored 30 points in the paint almost 40% of our total and got to the line 19 times.

If anytjing it opened up the floor more. They were doubling on Pierce and KG a ton leaving open shooters (who happened to be missing)

[Fafnir]

I thought the spacing was fine. We scored 30 points in the paint almost 40% of our total and got to the line 19 times.

If anytjing it opened up the floor more. They were doubling on Pierce and KG a ton leaving open shooters (who happened to be missing)

I don't think how many point in the paint you get and FTA are good measures of spacing.

I only was able to watch the second half, our spacing didn't look good at all. Of course nothing on offense did for us in the second half.

[mmmmm]

I disagree with the OP.

The 'big' lineup is fine.

The 'problem' (i.e., the reason we lost) had nothing to do with Pierce being matched up against Kidd.

Pierce was on the floor for 39+ minutes and was +4.

Of the remaining 8+ minutes, a couple of them were with Lee in place of Pierce with the rest of the starters still on the floor.  That unit 'held serve' at +1.

For a grand total of 6.4 of the minutes that Pierce was NOT on the floor, we went with the lineup of KG+JG+Crawford+Lee+Terry.   And got murdered.  THAT lineup was outscored in just 6.4 minutes of play by 15 points!!!!   They dropped -6 in the 2nd period and another -9 to end the 3rd & start the 4th.

And largely, because that unit ran around without its head on when on offense.   The only guy who made any shots from that unit was Green - and they struggled to remember to get the ball to him.

Take away those 6.4 minutes of that 5-man unit, and we 'won' the other 42.6 minutes of the game by 8 points!

My 'adjustment' is to make sure that THAT unit either doesn't get back on the floor OR only goes back on the floor with a better understanding of what they want to execute on offense.

God, I wish we still had Rondo ...

[Fred Roberts]

I'm not sure we need to worry about getting 'Green on the floor more', considering he played 46 of 48 minutes in game 1.

I think it's everything else that needs tweaking. Maybe even dial Jeff back to 42 minutes so he's got fresher legs in the 2nd half?

I really think this team needs more players in the rotation. Keep fresh bodies on the floor, keep everyone primed and don't get stuck at the end of the game with a ragged starting 5. Guys like Shav, Wilcox, T-Williams and Fab Melo (only kidding) can eat up some minutes and impact the game while resting key guys for the stretch.

Doc's playoff teams always flag at the end of games because the starters are GASSED. Mix in some other guys throughout and don't leave us for dead at the end of the game.

[CelticG1]

I thought the spacing was fine. We scored 30 points in the paint almost 40% of our total and got to the line 19 times.

If anytjing it opened up the floor more. They were doubling on Pierce and KG a ton leaving open shooters (who happened to be missing)

I don't think how many point in the paint you get and FTA are good measures of spacing.

I only was able to watch the second half, our spacing didn't look good at all. Of course nothing on offense did for us in the second half.

Yeah I don't like giving stats because they can be looked at in a million different ways.

In any case everything was bad in the second half. I really sont think the Kidd Pierce matchup hirt us at all. I think its a great matchup advantage for us. Pierce can shoot ocer him, post him up, see over, he's bigger, stronger, faster. They were helping a ton on him.

I just think we couldn't ask for a a better match up

[D Dub]

I dislike it. Bad spacing offensively against that Knicks defense with the quickness they have with their guards and forwards (even Tyson). Too easy to take away Pierce's size advantage and force Bass + Bradley + Garnett into long two point jump-shots.

I want to go small too. Drop Bass for a two guard and slide Jeff Green to power forward. I was thinking of a defensive option in Courtney Lee rather than Jordan Crawford though. I don't trust Jordan Crawford.

I'm right there with you, just leaning more towards offense against this team. 

I'm a big fan of Lee, but he's starting to become a liability on O.   He really needs to add a 3pt shot to his arsenal.    And with NYK, unless he's matched against JR smith his ball-hawk skills go to waste.   If its Shump or Kidd  I'd like to see more Crawford, see if he can ignite some needed offense. 

[D Dub]

I disagree with the OP.

The 'big' lineup is fine.

The 'problem' (i.e., the reason we lost) had nothing to do with Pierce being matched up against Kidd.

Pierce was on the floor for 39+ minutes and was +4.

Of the remaining 8+ minutes, a couple of them were with Lee in place of Pierce with the rest of the starters still on the floor.  That unit 'held serve' at +1.

For a grand total of 6.4 of the minutes that Pierce was NOT on the floor, we went with the lineup of KG+JG+Crawford+Lee+Terry.   And got murdered.  THAT lineup was outscored in just 6.4 minutes of play by 15 points!!!!   They dropped -6 in the 2nd period and another -9 to end the 3rd & start the 4th.

And largely, because that unit ran around without its head on when on offense.   The only guy who made any shots from that unit was Green - and they struggled to remember to get the ball to him.

Take away those 6.4 minutes of that 5-man unit, and we 'won' the other 42.6 minutes of the game by 8 points!

My 'adjustment' is to make sure that THAT unit either doesn't get back on the floor OR only goes back on the floor with a better understanding of what they want to execute on offense.

God, I wish we still had Rondo ...

Tp for those stats, good stuff


Guess the truth is, we need more of The Truth...

[Who]

I thought the spacing was fine. We scored 30 points in the paint almost 40% of our total and got to the line 19 times.

If anytjing it opened up the floor more. They were doubling on Pierce and KG a ton leaving open shooters (who happened to be missing)

I don't think how many point in the paint you get and FTA are good measures of spacing.

I only was able to watch the second half, our spacing didn't look good at all. Of course nothing on offense did for us in the second half.

Yeah I don't like giving stats because they can be looked at in a million different ways.

In any case everything was bad in the second half. I really sont think the Kidd Pierce matchup hirt us at all. I think its a great matchup advantage for us. Pierce can shoot ocer him, post him up, see over, he's bigger, stronger, faster. They were helping a ton on him.

I just think we couldn't ask for a a better match up

I think it is a very good individual matchup for Boston too. So is Pierce vs Shumpert and better again Pierce vs Prigioni. They are all advantageous matchups for Boston.

My concern is with the lineup as a whole versus NY's lineup rather than that individual matchup. I don't like how easy it is for New York to send help defenders onto Pierce and the types of shots they are able to force Boston into taking. They are low percentage shot attempts. They are the types of shots you want Boston taking.

And the spacing isn't good enough to get better quality shot-attempts. Too easy to help and recover for New York. They have superior quickness and Boston's offensive threats aren't dynamic enough. They can, with their defensive pressure, direct Boston's offense into inefficient shot attempts too well.

[CelticG1]

I thought the spacing was fine. We scored 30 points in the paint almost 40% of our total and got to the line 19 times.

If anytjing it opened up the floor more. They were doubling on Pierce and KG a ton leaving open shooters (who happened to be missing)

I don't think how many point in the paint you get and FTA are good measures of spacing.

I only was able to watch the second half, our spacing didn't look good at all. Of course nothing on offense did for us in the second half.

Yeah I don't like giving stats because they can be looked at in a million different ways.

In any case everything was bad in the second half. I really sont think the Kidd Pierce matchup hirt us at all. I think its a great matchup advantage for us. Pierce can shoot ocer him, post him up, see over, he's bigger, stronger, faster. They were helping a ton on him.

I just think we couldn't ask for a a better match up

I think it is a very good individual matchup for Boston too. So is Pierce vs Shumpert and better again Pierce vs Prigioni. They are all advantageous matchups for Boston.

My concern is with the lineup as a whole versus NY's lineup rather than that individual matchup. I don't like how easy it is for New York to send help defenders onto Pierce and the types of shots they are able to force Boston into taking. They are low percentage shot attempts. They are the types of shots you want Boston taking.

And the spacing isn't good enough to get better quality shot-attempts. Too easy to help and recover for New York. They have superior quickness and Boston's offensive threats aren't dynamic enough. They can, with their defensive pressure, direct Boston's offense into inefficient shot attempts too well.

We did find a cutting AB on numerous occasions for easy, in the pain lay ups for a lot of the game when they were doubling.

I'm more opposed with the line change of another sg and relagating bass for defensive purposes. I thought our defense was great with that unit and muscled them pretty good. I think it helps our rebounding as well.

I kinda like being able to throw pretty much any of our 5 guys at Melo everry time down the court