How to stop ring chasing by superstars

[indeedproceed]

I love how Celtics fans tend to talk about this topic while forgetting Ray Allen and KG came to join Paul Pierce to win a ring.

And that they did. And that they continue to do.

We traded for them on their existing contracts...they did not sign with us as FAs.

In the interest of fairness, this isn't the whole truth either Kevin Garnett signed an extension first and then was traded on his existing contract which was a prerequisite for acquiring him. Nobody was going to trade the value Minnesota was demanding just to rent KG.

[indeedproceed]

I don't think you can let the league decide how much stars "should" sign for.  I mean, let's go back to the summer of 2009.  Would the league have said that Rasheed was chasing a ring and taking a below-market deal for Rasheed Wallace?  Should they have voided the MLE contract? 

In terms of your "what if" scenario, I think most players are going to want their contract money *and* their endorsement money.  It will be the rare player who sacrifices $15 million per year to ring chase.

It is too late to say the League should not decide how much a player should sign for because the league already does. It is called the salary cap, and not only is there a team cap there is a player cap. So the league is already in that business.

As far as free agents you dont void the contract you just assign the highest value the player commanded on the market. So if there is a team that offered Sheed more than Boston you still allow Sheed to sign with Boston but the higher offer he got from the other team would be his 'cap value'. No giving a certain team a sweet deal just to chase the ring. This violates the spirit of the salary cap.

This creates odd incentives. Suppose a team like Cleveland knows it has no shot at getting Sheed. It offers the max, knowing that all this will do is punish the team Sheed eventually signs with.

Of course this would happen, but I think it would be relatively rare. The most common instances would force teams with cap room to pay what the players are actually worth. As was shown this season, signing a guy to an exorbedant offer sheet trying to bully another team into overpaying to retain their own guys didn't really pay out. Houston tried it, but they also worked some cap loophole to put NY and Chicago into a corner. Toronto overpaid Landry Fields to try to bully the next Knicks into a corner so they couldn't sign Steve Nash and that turned out terribly. Or, maybe Toronto just signed Fields so they could sign Steve Nash, but either way didn't work out and I think that serves a lesson to other teams.

[NocturnalRebel]

How to stop it? How about if superstars win it tha way they should and not join other superstars to do it.

[blink]

How to fix the problem.. If a free agent takes less money to join a team the team must be assigned the amount of money that reflects the free agent's true value on the open market.

That will put an end to the collusion.

I am sorry, I disagree with this 100%.  Who are you to tell NBA players what they value they place on their services and how that effects where they want to play? 

Who would decide a player's 'true value' on the open market?  That isn't really an open market if 'someone' is deciding it for everyone.  IMO I don't think something like that would be fair to the players.

I understand you think the whole lebron and bosh to miami made for unfair competition for the rest of the league.  But setting some arbitrary 'true value' on free agents is very unlikely to ever happen.  If a player takes less money to be on a team of their choice that is not collusion.  No one was deceived or defrauded of their legal rights. 

[Ogaju]

How to fix the problem.. If a free agent takes less money to join a team the team must be assigned the amount of money that reflects the free agent's true value on the open market.

That will put an end to the collusion.

I am sorry, I disagree with this 100%.  Who are you to tell NBA players what they value they place on their services and how that effects where they want to play? 

Who would decide a player's 'true value' on the open market?  That isn't really an open market if 'someone' is deciding it for everyone.  IMO I don't think something like that would be fair to the players.

I understand you think the whole lebron and bosh to miami made for unfair competition for the rest of the league.  But setting some arbitrary 'true value' on free agents is very unlikely to ever happen.  If a player takes less money to be on a team of their choice that is not collusion.  No one was deceived or defrauded of their legal rights.

I will answer your questions

Who am I to tell NBA players the value they place on their services?

I do not decide the value, they can place any value they want but the team that hires them will be tagged with their highest value determined by the highest offer they get in free agency. They can play for zero dollars for all I care, but their team will be tagged with the highest offer they get in free agency.

Who would decide a player's 'true value' on the open market?  That isn't really an open market if 'someone' is deciding it for everyone.  IMO I don't think something like that would be fair to the players.

Ans: the true value will be determined by the highest bid. No particular one is deciding for everyone the market decides by open bidding. The player is free to choose a lower bid, but his team will be charged with the highest bid for cap purposes only. There is nothing unfair to the player at all - the player plays where he wants and the integrity of the league's salary cap structure is maintained.

Finally, allowing market to determine price is not arbirary, the value is set by the market forces. Allowing players to go against market value is what is arbitrary.

Taking less than market price is 'price fixing' and therefore collusion. The rights of other teams to fair competition is violated and the league's salary cap is violated. Why should LA be able to get Howard for less than max because LA presents him opportunities in entertainment industry when another team would have to pay a lesser player max - why is that legal.

It is one thing if there was no salary cap so that an Oklahoma could offer whatever they want to compete with a more glamorous destination. If OKC and LA are capped at the same max for a player where do you think that player will go. The salary cap mandates that the league should step in to make sure it is not being manipulated.

It is all about salary cap integrity.

[LooseCannon]

If there is a salary cap, there is not an open market.  I don't think a completely open market for determining NBA salaries is a good idea.

[guava_wrench]

This is not a big deal.

No matter what you do, there will be teams that are always on top. If we are going to complain about the Heat, well, the Celtics have done some of the most embarrassing moves in the history of the league when teams were willing to give up basketball assets for non-basketball assets. That was a travesty, but I'll happily take our championships.

I the luck of draft position really any better as a criteria for where players should end up?

If people don't like it, than make you city more attractive to players. Or hope you have a few good drafts like OKC and ride that out for a few years.

[Celtics4ever]

Usually it doesn't work so why bother.   The Heat could not even beat us until we got old and the refs helped them immensely.  Didn't work for the Lakers.   

I hate free agency.   Liked the league better when players stuck with their team but your going to have this now it's a reality.

[Moranis]

I love how Celtics fans tend to talk about this topic while forgetting Ray Allen and KG came to join Paul Pierce to win a ring.

And that they did. And that they continue to do.

Not to dismiss it out of hand, Ray Allen didn't 'come here to win a ring', he was acquired for a lottery pick and young assets. KG was also traded for, but he was sold on us first. Unlike Lebron (who was also technically traded for, but in contrast to KG, Miami gave up no value for him), Bosh just signed willingly (don't think he was a S&T).

The situations are similar, but not so similar that they're analogus.

Well Cleveland did use the cap exception in the Baron Davis trade that netted them Kyrie Irving.  They also got a couple of firsts (yet to be used) and a couple of seconds (Milan Macvan and Jae Crowder).

[CFAN38]

At least the new CBA is going to make it financially much harder for multiple super stars to bunch up in their primes. I dont think there will ever be a way to stop the end of the line ring chasing thats just a way of life in the NBA,

[D.o.s.]

I hate free agency.   Liked the league better when players stuck with their team but your going to have this now it's a reality.

Agreed, that Kevin Garnett really should have stuck it out in the wasteland of Minnesota. Coming to Boston was a mistake, he's such a quitter. 

You have to look at when the players are leaving the teams--it's usually at the end of their second contract (see 'Melo, LBJ, Bosh). After six or seven years with a franchise, you'd see if you wanted to stay there, right?

I can't fault LeBron for leaving Cleveland, even if 'the decision' was a disaster. The Cav's front office was doing an awful job of putting the pieces around him to succeed.

Let's say you could live in Cleveland, or you could live in Miami. You're a twenty-five year old millionaire. You don't like income tax. You do enjoy going out. You've also lived in Cleveland your whole life, and you didn't go to college... but the national media has been on your back for almost your entire life. A lot more privacy in Miami.


Also, ring chasing is a byproduct of the competitive nature that helps these guys end up in the NBA anyway. I don't think anyone would suggest that we try and make the players less competitive?

[Moranis]

And for the record, to call Lebron James a ring chaser is just ridiculous.  Clearly not even in the same ball park as Shaq coming to Boston or Malone going to LA or Allen going to Miami.

[pearljammer10]

Free agents should have the right to sign wherever they want for as much as they want. There should be no one else involved in the matter outside of player agents and team owners/coaches during the negotiation process.

[Snakehead]

How to stop it? How about if superstars win it tha way they should and not join other superstars to do it.

Oh you mean like our own team and basically every team to ever win a title?

This is such a fallacy, tired of reading it.  You don't win titles by yourself, it hasn't been done.

[kgainez]

Free agents should have the right to sign wherever they want for as much as they want. There should be no one else involved in the matter outside of player agents and team owners/coaches during the negotiation process.

this
do i like it all the time? no. but I think it's a moral/personal thing.
it shouldn't be regulated. you still have stars who can request trades and move wherever. so...whatevs.

and with lebron it's not as much as where he went, as it's how he did it.