Doc bashing

[Lightskinsmurf]

I'm sorry, but in order for me to take doc seriously hes going to have to stop doing the most idiotic RIDICULOUS things. Like putting BASS at center. There is absolutely, NO LOGICAL REASON to put brandon freaking bass at center!!! You have KG Wilcox and Shav who can play center.

All of which is a freaking no brainer to play at center over bass! Doc is showing this year how hes the most overrated coach in the league. Dude has all this talent and has no idea what to do with it. Bass at center, what a joke this guy is.

This celtics team underachieved greatly this year and yes some of that can be excused because of injuries. However, you don't underachieve greatly without the coach having alot to do with it. Besides, back before this team had any real injuries we were still 20-23. Doc rivers, I can't stand the guy. Forget having a great coach, just give me somebody who doesn't think its a good idea to play a 6'8 power forward at center!!! JESUS MAN! Doc overrated rivers. Get him off this team now!!!.........rant over.                                           

[dinome18]

I'm curious to all the Doc bashes what options does he really have?? This is a very flawed team right now. Some people act like if Shav was playing for 38 minutes a night he would average 20 boards.
He is good in spurts but don't fool yourself into thinking he would own the paint if he played the majority of the game there was a reason why he was playing in China.

This is a team in transistion without their best player and a good young player in Sullinger.
They are relying on two guys that are well into their 30's and player in Green who doesn't show up every night. Temper your expectations Doc is the least of this teams problems right now.

If this team is in transition then their GM and ownership didn't do them any favors keeping PP and KG

I agree with that statement but the problem was KG was not waving his clause and the Pierce deal wasn't worh it so they had no choice.

I disagree.  I think Paul Pierce and Kevin Garnett are proving to be, and are going to continue to prove to be, a huge help in the transition of this team into the next phase of the Boston Celtics.

If this is the energy and work habits that have been instilled by PP and KG to the YG's as KG likes to call them.. how are they being a huge help? This team consistently loses to very bad teams when either KG or PP don't play. Where is the data for this?

You're asking me for the data to back up your claim?  Shouldn't you be finding that yourself?

I'm just saying.

I didn't make the original claim, you did.

[timobusa]

Things I'd like for Doc to do:

1) Not dick around with Garnett's minutes.  He doesn't even do the 5x5 crap anymore.  It's 4.5 minutes, 9, 4.5, 10ish.  There is no evidence that distributing his minutes like so keeps him healthier because nobody in the history of the game has been used like that. 

It doesn't even make sense in theory.  How is playing Garnett for such a brief periods in the first and third quarters supposed to be good for his health?  All it does is keep this frenetic, intense player idling on the bench for at least 3 TV timeouts twice in a game.  Instead of trying to be smarter than everyone else, just use Garnett like he'd had always been used before and how every other coach uses their players and then go from there.

2) Run some pick and rolls.  If you're running pick and pops all the time, it leads to just shooting outside jumpers all the time.  Also, it keeps the bigs from being able even to attempt to offensive rebound.  This team needs to be forced to get into the paint and one way to do that is by having their bigs go to the basket once in a while.  This genius, Doc, said he didn't use Ray as a ballhandlers on picks because he didn't think he was good at them.  He didn't even give him an opportunity before shooting him down.  You know what, Ray has been really good handling off picks for Miami this year.  In their recent games, Ray has run beautiful pick and rolls with Chris freaking Anderson where Ray has gotten all the way to the basket for layups because the defense had to pay attention to Chris Freaking Anderson.  Why can't the Celtics run a simple pick and roll more than twice a game? 

What is Doc doing since he's been running the same plays for the past 4 seasons without changing anything?  Miami has added so many new plays and wrinkles since coming together.  What's stopping Doc from implementing even one new play?

Doc did a hell of job managing KG's minutes last year, KG was a beast for most of the playoffs because of less wear and tear through the regular season. He is trying to to duplicate last year.

Last year was a shortened season, hence more games in a week/month basis.
So he had to sit KG early/manage his minutes because they are playing 4 games a week.

This year is different, regular 82 game season. More rest time, he doesn't have to follow the (5 5 5 5) rule to a tee.

Go with who ever is hot, and whatever line-up is clicking at that point in time.

Making sure Terry or KG or Lee or whoever gets a certain amount of minutes a game seems crazy, sure they won't be happy if their minutes get cut down, but that will just make them play harder with the minutes they get.

[NocturnalRebel]

I never did understand tha Doc bashing. Despite his questionable rotations I dont get why a lot of people here take their frustrations out on Doc. I'm not making an excuse for Doc because playing Bass at Center is unacceptable when you still have Wilcox and Shavlik. But he doesn't have much to work with anymore. I'm sure if we still had Collins, we would never see Bass at Center.

Doc does need to get better with his rotations and it really should be a no-brainer to play Wilcox and Shavlik more and Bass less at center. But Doc shouldn't be bashed as much as he is when tha team still doesn't give tha effort they should every game. I keep saying that this team has to fight and claw for everything they want. Without Rondo and Sully their task is much harder and they won't get far if tha effort isn't there every game.

[Banner18now!]

I'm sorry, but in order for me to take doc seriously hes going to have to stop doing the most idiotic RIDICULOUS things. Like putting BASS at center. There is absolutely, NO LOGICAL REASON to put brandon freaking bass at center!!! You have KG Wilcox and Shav who can play center.

All of which is a freaking no brainer to play at center over bass! Doc is showing this year how hes the most overrated coach in the league. Dude has all this talent and has no idea what to do with it. Bass at center, what a joke this guy is.

This celtics team underachieved greatly this year and yes some of that can be excused because of injuries. However, you don't underachieve greatly without the coach having alot to do with it. Besides, back before this team had any real injuries we were still 20-23. Doc rivers, I can't stand the guy. Forget having a great coach, just give me somebody who doesn't think its a good idea to play a 6'8 power forward at center!!! JESUS MAN! Doc overrated rivers. Get him off this team now!!!.........rant over.                                           

You really think the only problem with this team is Doc Rivers?
So if another coach was here the Celts would have what maybe 50 wins right now?
Sorry I don't buy it this is a flawed team playing without their best player relying on 2 guys well into their 30's. I will reserve judgment on Doc this season because he has been delt a tough hand.
Let's see what happens in the playoffs where he usually out coaches the other teams coach.
 Would it be safe to say the Knicks are a better team than the Celts right now?
Would it surprise you if the Celts either take them to the wire or beat them?
A lot of that will have to do with Doc out-coaching Woodson who has the better team right now.

[Celtics4ever]

I think injuries have killed this team and even without them we have some flaws.

[clover]

I never did understand tha Doc bashing. Despite his questionable rotations I dont get why a lot of people here take their frustrations out on Doc. I'm not making an excuse for Doc because playing Bass at Center is unacceptable when you still have Wilcox and Shavlik. But he doesn't have much to work with anymore. I'm sure if we still had Collins, we would never see Bass at Center.

Doc does need to get better with his rotations and it really should be a no-brainer to play Wilcox and Shavlik more and Bass less at center. But Doc shouldn't be bashed as much as he is when tha team still doesn't give tha effort they should every game. I keep saying that this team has to fight and claw for everything they want. Without Rondo and Sully their task is much harder and they won't get far if tha effort isn't there every game.

If they still had Collins and they had Shav and White, I fully expect Shav would be buried behind White on the bench.

[Snakehead]

I think injuries have killed this team and even without them we have some flaws.

Pretty much.

A lot depended on Sully contributing and of course Rondo.  We made due without him for a while but now without him we see how badly we miss his penetration, setting players up for easy baskets, controlling the offense.  Last night was just jumpshot after jumpshot and if those aren't falling out team is very ugly on offense.

[Celtics18]

I'm curious to all the Doc bashes what options does he really have?? This is a very flawed team right now. Some people act like if Shav was playing for 38 minutes a night he would average 20 boards.
He is good in spurts but don't fool yourself into thinking he would own the paint if he played the majority of the game there was a reason why he was playing in China.

This is a team in transistion without their best player and a good young player in Sullinger.
They are relying on two guys that are well into their 30's and player in Green who doesn't show up every night. Temper your expectations Doc is the least of this teams problems right now.

If this team is in transition then their GM and ownership didn't do them any favors keeping PP and KG

I agree with that statement but the problem was KG was not waving his clause and the Pierce deal wasn't worh it so they had no choice.

I disagree.  I think Paul Pierce and Kevin Garnett are proving to be, and are going to continue to prove to be, a huge help in the transition of this team into the next phase of the Boston Celtics.

If this is the energy and work habits that have been instilled by PP and KG to the YG's as KG likes to call them.. how are they being a huge help? This team consistently loses to very bad teams when either KG or PP don't play. Where is the data for this?

You're asking me for the data to back up your claim?  Shouldn't you be finding that yourself?

I'm just saying.

I didn't make the original claim, you did.

I didn't make any claims about the team's record against any teams without Pierce or Garnett.

[Celtics18]

I'm sorry, but in order for me to take doc seriously hes going to have to stop doing the most idiotic RIDICULOUS things. Like putting BASS at center. There is absolutely, NO LOGICAL REASON to put brandon freaking bass at center!!! You have KG Wilcox and Shav who can play center.

All of which is a freaking no brainer to play at center over bass! Doc is showing this year how hes the most overrated coach in the league. Dude has all this talent and has no idea what to do with it. Bass at center, what a joke this guy is.

This celtics team underachieved greatly this year and yes some of that can be excused because of injuries. However, you don't underachieve greatly without the coach having alot to do with it. Besides, back before this team had any real injuries we were still 20-23. Doc rivers, I can't stand the guy. Forget having a great coach, just give me somebody who doesn't think its a good idea to play a 6'8 power forward at center!!! JESUS MAN! Doc overrated rivers. Get him off this team now!!!.........rant over.                                           

I don't entirely agree.  Brandon Bass is our most reliable big other than KG.  There are times when he wants to go small, but also feels the need to rest KG.  In those instances,  his best option is to play Bass at center. 

It's not ideal, but he's making the best of the situation he's faced with.  I'll grant you that it worked out fairly atrociously last night, but, to be honest, I didn't see anyone on the team last night (including KG) who seemed like they were equipped to be able to handle Brook Lopez inside.   

[Lightskinsmurf]

I'm sorry, but in order for me to take doc seriously hes going to have to stop doing the most idiotic RIDICULOUS things. Like putting BASS at center. There is absolutely, NO LOGICAL REASON to put brandon freaking bass at center!!! You have KG Wilcox and Shav who can play center.

All of which is a freaking no brainer to play at center over bass! Doc is showing this year how hes the most overrated coach in the league. Dude has all this talent and has no idea what to do with it. Bass at center, what a joke this guy is.

This celtics team underachieved greatly this year and yes some of that can be excused because of injuries. However, you don't underachieve greatly without the coach having alot to do with it. Besides, back before this team had any real injuries we were still 20-23. Doc rivers, I can't stand the guy. Forget having a great coach, just give me somebody who doesn't think its a good idea to play a 6'8 power forward at center!!! JESUS MAN! Doc overrated rivers. Get him off this team now!!!.........rant over.                                           

You really think the only problem with this team is Doc Rivers?
So if another coach was here the Celts would have what maybe 50 wins right now?
Sorry I don't buy it this is a flawed team playing without their best player relying on 2 guys well into their 30's. I will reserve judgment on Doc this season because he has been delt a tough hand.
Let's see what happens in the playoffs where he usually out coaches the other teams coach.
Would it be safe to say the Knicks are a better team than the Celts right now?
Would it surprise you if the Celts either take them to the wire or beat them?
A lot of that will have to do with Doc out-coaching Woodson who has the better team right now.

Reading comprehension is very important. No where in there did I say doc was the only problem. He is a big part of it tho. Hes done a horrible, I mean HORRIBLE job with this team this year. Also, who knows if the celtics have more wins with another coach. Id be willing to bet yes tho as long as that coach is better at rotations than doc and doesn't go small ball all the time or use terry like hes ray allen the second.

As far as the last thing, No it would not surprise me if the celtics beat the knicks. That's mainly because I don't believe in the knicks. They live and die by the 3 too much for my liking. The only team that would surprise me if the celtics beat is miami. As far as the east is concerned.

[Lightskinsmurf]

I'm sorry, but in order for me to take doc seriously hes going to have to stop doing the most idiotic RIDICULOUS things. Like putting BASS at center. There is absolutely, NO LOGICAL REASON to put brandon freaking bass at center!!! You have KG Wilcox and Shav who can play center.

All of which is a freaking no brainer to play at center over bass! Doc is showing this year how hes the most overrated coach in the league. Dude has all this talent and has no idea what to do with it. Bass at center, what a joke this guy is.

This celtics team underachieved greatly this year and yes some of that can be excused because of injuries. However, you don't underachieve greatly without the coach having alot to do with it. Besides, back before this team had any real injuries we were still 20-23. Doc rivers, I can't stand the guy. Forget having a great coach, just give me somebody who doesn't think its a good idea to play a 6'8 power forward at center!!! JESUS MAN! Doc overrated rivers. Get him off this team now!!!.........rant over.                                           

I don't entirely agree.  Brandon Bass is our most reliable big other than KG.  There are times when he wants to go small, but also feels the need to rest KG.  In those instances,  his best option is to play Bass at center. 

It's not ideal, but he's making the best of the situation he's faced with.  I'll grant you that it worked out fairly atrociously last night, but, to be honest, I didn't see anyone on the team last night (including KG) who seemed like they were equipped to be able to handle Brook Lopez inside.

Bass might be our second most reliable big man.......but......wait for it..........NOT AT THE CENTER POSITION!!! I'm sorry I'm just not buying anything other than doc is a complete moron for putting bass at the 5. He isn't FORCED too, he CHOOSES too. Which makes him an idiot in my book.

[Banner18now!]

I'm sorry, but in order for me to take doc seriously hes going to have to stop doing the most idiotic RIDICULOUS things. Like putting BASS at center. There is absolutely, NO LOGICAL REASON to put brandon freaking bass at center!!! You have KG Wilcox and Shav who can play center.

All of which is a freaking no brainer to play at center over bass! Doc is showing this year how hes the most overrated coach in the league. Dude has all this talent and has no idea what to do with it. Bass at center, what a joke this guy is.

This celtics team underachieved greatly this year and yes some of that can be excused because of injuries. However, you don't underachieve greatly without the coach having alot to do with it. Besides, back before this team had any real injuries we were still 20-23. Doc rivers, I can't stand the guy. Forget having a great coach, just give me somebody who doesn't think its a good idea to play a 6'8 power forward at center!!! JESUS MAN! Doc overrated rivers. Get him off this team now!!!.........rant over.                                           

You really think the only problem with this team is Doc Rivers?
So if another coach was here the Celts would have what maybe 50 wins right now?
Sorry I don't buy it this is a flawed team playing without their best player relying on 2 guys well into their 30's. I will reserve judgment on Doc this season because he has been delt a tough hand.
Let's see what happens in the playoffs where he usually out coaches the other teams coach.
Would it be safe to say the Knicks are a better team than the Celts right now?
Would it surprise you if the Celts either take them to the wire or beat them?
A lot of that will have to do with Doc out-coaching Woodson who has the better team right now.

Reading comprehension is very important. No where in there did I say doc was the only problem. He is a big part of it tho. Hes done a horrible, I mean HORRIBLE job with this team this year. Also, who knows if the celtics have more wins with another coach. Id be willing to bet yes tho as long as that coach is better at rotations than doc and doesn't go small ball all the time or use terry like hes ray allen the second.

As far as the last thing, No it would not surprise me if the celtics beat the knicks. That's mainly because I don't believe in the knicks. They live and die by the 3 too much for my liking. The only team that would surprise me if the celtics beat is miami. As far as the east is concerned.

Ok so you are saying he is 75% the problem? Your rant is Doc sucks so why wouldn't I assume your saying he is the problem? We agree to disagree. And right now I'm sorry the Knicks are better than the Celtics and it would be an upset if the Celtics win.  How would you use Jet?? Doc is playing the hand he was dealt with you want to put some blame on Jet for not having great year not Doc.

[Banner18now!]

I'm sorry, but in order for me to take doc seriously hes going to have to stop doing the most idiotic RIDICULOUS things. Like putting BASS at center. There is absolutely, NO LOGICAL REASON to put brandon freaking bass at center!!! You have KG Wilcox and Shav who can play center.

All of which is a freaking no brainer to play at center over bass! Doc is showing this year how hes the most overrated coach in the league. Dude has all this talent and has no idea what to do with it. Bass at center, what a joke this guy is.

This celtics team underachieved greatly this year and yes some of that can be excused because of injuries. However, you don't underachieve greatly without the coach having alot to do with it. Besides, back before this team had any real injuries we were still 20-23. Doc rivers, I can't stand the guy. Forget having a great coach, just give me somebody who doesn't think its a good idea to play a 6'8 power forward at center!!! JESUS MAN! Doc overrated rivers. Get him off this team now!!!.........rant over.                                           

I don't entirely agree.  Brandon Bass is our most reliable big other than KG.  There are times when he wants to go small, but also feels the need to rest KG.  In those instances,  his best option is to play Bass at center. 

It's not ideal, but he's making the best of the situation he's faced with.  I'll grant you that it worked out fairly atrociously last night, but, to be honest, I didn't see anyone on the team last night (including KG) who seemed like they were equipped to be able to handle Brook Lopez inside.

Bass might be our second most reliable big man.......but......wait for it..........NOT AT THE CENTER POSITION!!! I'm sorry I'm just not buying anything other than doc is a complete moron for putting bass at the 5. He isn't FORCED too, he CHOOSES too. Which makes him an idiot in my book.

Since these games are meaningless do you think Doc might be playing with some combinations to see what he has in certain situations? Would it surprise you if he is tinkering to get ready for the playoffs?

[dinome18]

I'm curious to all the Doc bashes what options does he really have?? This is a very flawed team right now. Some people act like if Shav was playing for 38 minutes a night he would average 20 boards.
He is good in spurts but don't fool yourself into thinking he would own the paint if he played the majority of the game there was a reason why he was playing in China.

This is a team in transistion without their best player and a good young player in Sullinger.
They are relying on two guys that are well into their 30's and player in Green who doesn't show up every night. Temper your expectations Doc is the least of this teams problems right now.

If this team is in transition then their GM and ownership didn't do them any favors keeping PP and KG

I agree with that statement but the problem was KG was not waving his clause and the Pierce deal wasn't worh it so they had no choice.

I disagree.  I think Paul Pierce and Kevin Garnett are proving to be, and are going to continue to prove to be, a huge help in the transition of this team into the next phase of the Boston Celtics.

If this is the energy and work habits that have been instilled by PP and KG to the YG's as KG likes to call them.. how are they being a huge help? This team consistently loses to very bad teams when either KG or PP don't play. Where is the data for this?

You're asking me for the data to back up your claim?  Shouldn't you be finding that yourself?

I'm just saying.

I didn't make the original claim, you did.

I didn't make any claims about the team's record against any teams without Pierce or Garnett.

You made the claim they were going to be a huge help in the transition to the next Boston Celtics and my point was  how? and then backed up my claim by saying I haven't seen energy, toughness and the work habits that I've seen in KG and PP over the years.