Martin and Birdman

[Celtics18]

Danny really missed out on them.

Even if Doc's philosophy is not rebounding, these 2 players are pretty good at it. They won't need to be told what to do, and they will probably learn defensive schemes faster than the china guys.

But what's done is done, I'm just hoping for a miracle now.

hah.

On that note, give me more Shavlik

and that right there tells us all we need to know. top coach my behind. what top coach does not believe in rebounding???

Apparently Greg Popovich, Erik Spoelstra, and Rick Carlisle round out the list of top coaches who don't believe in rebounding.  Their respective teams join the Celtics as the bottom four offensive rebounding teams in the league.

I find it interesting that the four active NBA head coaches who have won titles are coaching the four teams with the worst offensive rebounding rates.  Make of that what you will.

Edit:  Let me add that Shav Randolph has a much higher rebounding rate in his short minutes thus far than either Kenyon Martin or Chris Andersen. 

[CelticG1]

Might as well throw Andray Blatche on there as well. At least at the time we already had Darko, a move I liked.


I just wish we could hear real reasoning for it. Docs "we were looking for a guard" and "we wanted a big with more size" makes little to no sense.

I'm guessing they must have had real issues or problems with them aside from any sort of "chemistry issues" since we've signed plenty of those guys where no or little issues came up. With the very relative low risk it just didn't make sense.

I hope there were some underlying issues that will never go public or I hope White and Randolph turn out to be studs, otherwise it really is puzzling.

[Celtics18]

Might as well throw Andray Blatche on there as well. At least at the time we already had Darko, a move I liked.


I just wish we could hear real reasoning for it. Docs "we were looking for a guard" and "we wanted a big with more size" makes little to no sense.

I'm guessing they must have had real issues or problems with them aside from any sort of "chemistry issues" since we've signed plenty of those guys where no or little issues came up. With the very relative low risk it just didn't make sense.

I hope there were some underlying issues that will never go public or I hope White and Randolph turn out to be studs, otherwise it really is puzzling.

Shav Randolph has already turned out to be a "stud" on the glass.  I'm more than happy that we signed the two younger "Chinese" big men over either of Andersen or Martin. 

[aporel#18]

Might as well throw Andray Blatche on there as well. At least at the time we already had Darko, a move I liked.


I just wish we could hear real reasoning for it. Docs "we were looking for a guard" and "we wanted a big with more size" makes little to no sense.

I'm guessing they must have had real issues or problems with them aside from any sort of "chemistry issues" since we've signed plenty of those guys where no or little issues came up. With the very relative low risk it just didn't make sense.

I hope there were some underlying issues that will never go public or I hope White and Randolph turn out to be studs, otherwise it really is puzzling.

Shav Randolph has already turned out to be a "stud" on the glass.  I'm more than happy that we signed the two younger "Chinese" big men over either of Andersen or Martin.

This. If Danny signed another veteran, with our luck, they'd probably would go down injured. I like the young role player movement, and I hope DJ finally gets the defense rotations and plays some minutes. He could be better than Bass if he figured out what to do on D, and he could be our drive stopper come playoff time.

[LooseCannon]

Might as well throw Andray Blatche on there as well. At least at the time we already had Darko, a move I liked.

Given that Blatche was ballooning and needed to lose 30 pounds, I don't blame the Celtics for staying away from him.

[pearljammer10]

Might as well throw Andray Blatche on there as well. At least at the time we already had Darko, a move I liked.

Given that Blatche was ballooning and needed to lose 30 pounds, I don't blame the Celtics for staying away from him.

Yeah for me Blatche is in a totally different category. No matter how big man deprived we get I would always stay away from the big bad blatche.

[CelticG1]

I think you guys are kidding youselves.

An overweight blatche is still better than Bass and Wilcox or at least better than the Chinese crop.

Same with Birdman and Martin. Its more about how bad our guys especially wilcox is than how good the others are.

Plus the whole "keeping the younger guy" thing is a little old. These are rentals. We rarely keep these younger guys we aqcuire just like we rarely keep the veteran rentals.

Your kidding yourself if you think white and Shav will be with us next year unless a. They blow up in the playoffs or b. We end up being a lottery team next year.

Shav had rebounded okay in limited minutes and fouls at an incredible rate. Hes also a pretty terrible defender. I mean him and White haven't played much so its hard to judge but I think its incredibly obvious how much better the other guys would be.

I highly dount during the season if these four guys were up for grabs that people would think that Shav and Dj are the better players?

I mean they aren't even that young. Shav is 29 haha

[kozlodoev]

I mean they aren't even that young. Shav is 29 haha

Martin is 36 and Andersen is 35.

[Celtics18]

I think you guys are kidding youselves.

An overweight blatche is still better than Bass and Wilcox or at least better than the Chinese crop.

Same with Birdman and Martin. Its more about how bad our guys especially wilcox is than how good the others are.

Plus the whole "keeping the younger guy" thing is a little old. These are rentals. We rarely keep these younger guys we aqcuire just like we rarely keep the veteran rentals.

Your kidding yourself if you think white and Shav will be with us next year unless a. They blow up in the playoffs or b. We end up being a lottery team next year.

Shav had rebounded okay in limited minutes and fouls at an incredible rate. Hes also a pretty terrible defender. I mean him and White haven't played much so its hard to judge but I think its incredibly obvious how much better the other guys would be.

I highly dount during the season if these four guys were up for grabs that people would think that Shav and Dj are the better players?

I mean they aren't even that young. Shav is 29 haha

Shav has played very well in the minutes he's been given.  He's rebounded well and defended well, showed hustle, and toughness, all the things we've been looking for from a big off the bench.  The fact that he came over from China and nobody has heard his name mentioned in about three years automatically makes people think he was a terrible pick up.  So far, he has shown otherwise.

DJ White has looked fairly solid in his limited minutes, as well. 

I'm happy to have those guys.  Chris Andersen and Kenyon Martin are spilt milk as far as I'm concerned. 

[kgainez]

Danny really missed out on them.

Even if Doc's philosophy is not rebounding, these 2 players are pretty good at it. They won't need to be told what to do, and they will probably learn defensive schemes faster than the china guys.

But what's done is done, I'm just hoping for a miracle now.

hah.

On that note, give me more Shavlik

and that right there tells us all we need to know. top coach my behind. what top coach does not believe in rebounding???

Its not that he doesn't believe in rebounding, he just doesn't think he has the personnel to actually pull down enough offensive boards to make it worth while committing guys to the glass instead of getting back and avoiding easy transition buckets. On the defensive end rebounding is still emphasized immensely.

I don't always agree with it, but its hard to argue given our roster that we could realistically be pulling down many more second chance opportunities if we committed more people to the boards. I'd like to see him try it more with guys who have the size/ability to bang a bit down low like Wilcox and Randolph on the floor.

But I guess Doc believes so much in his half court defense (and who can blame him given its production over the last few years and guys like Garnett, Bradley, Lee and Green) that he would rather force teams to run a set against us than give them the opportunity to get easy buckets.

are you kidding me?
all we do is shoot long jumpers and everyone just stands there, and as the ball is floating in the air EVERYONE runs back on defense. You're telling me you can't commit at least 2 guys to tracking down the rebound?
It may not be the rebound, but it may be forcing a turnover.
Especially games when we are sucking at shooting. Fricken rebound the ball, man.

[Celtics18]

Danny really missed out on them.

Even if Doc's philosophy is not rebounding, these 2 players are pretty good at it. They won't need to be told what to do, and they will probably learn defensive schemes faster than the china guys.

But what's done is done, I'm just hoping for a miracle now.

hah.

On that note, give me more Shavlik

and that right there tells us all we need to know. top coach my behind. what top coach does not believe in rebounding???

Its not that he doesn't believe in rebounding, he just doesn't think he has the personnel to actually pull down enough offensive boards to make it worth while committing guys to the glass instead of getting back and avoiding easy transition buckets. On the defensive end rebounding is still emphasized immensely.

I don't always agree with it, but its hard to argue given our roster that we could realistically be pulling down many more second chance opportunities if we committed more people to the boards. I'd like to see him try it more with guys who have the size/ability to bang a bit down low like Wilcox and Randolph on the floor.

But I guess Doc believes so much in his half court defense (and who can blame him given its production over the last few years and guys like Garnett, Bradley, Lee and Green) that he would rather force teams to run a set against us than give them the opportunity to get easy buckets.

are you kidding me?
all we do is shoot long jumpers and everyone just stands there, and as the ball is floating in the air EVERYONE runs back on defense. You're telling me you can't commit at least 2 guys to tracking down the rebound?
It may not be the rebound, but it may be forcing a turnover.
Especially games when we are sucking at shooting. Fricken rebound the ball, man.

Or, if we don't get the rebound, it may lead to a transition bucket down the other end.  I don't have a problem prioritizing getting back on defense over offensive rebounding. 

[CelticG1]

I mean they aren't even that young. Shav is 29 haha

Martin is 36 and Andersen is 35.

When neither is coming back next year does it really matter?

Shavlik has played in about 30 nba games the past 6 years. Really can't see a positive out of that unless you truly believe having a lower average age on your roster equals success.

I'm pretty sure lots of d league guys could do what he does. Grab some rebounds and foul like a maniac.

Do people really think that DJ and Shav have just improved over the last 5 years and are now above D league and Chinese league and will suddenly be rotation players? Where is this coming from

[Celtics18]

I mean they aren't even that young. Shav is 29 haha

Martin is 36 and Andersen is 35.

When neither is coming back next year does it really matter?

Shavlik has played in about 30 nba games the past 6 years. Really can't see a positive out of that unless you truly believe having a lower average age on your roster equals success.

I'm pretty sure lots of d league guys could do what he does. Grab some rebounds and foul like a maniac.

Do people really think that DJ and Shav have just improved over the last 5 years and are now above D league and Chinese league and will suddenly be rotation players? Where is this coming from

Yes (particularly in Shav's case).  And, it's coming from watching them play.

[CelticG1]

I think you guys are kidding youselves.

An overweight blatche is still better than Bass and Wilcox or at least better than the Chinese crop.

Same with Birdman and Martin. Its more about how bad our guys especially wilcox is than how good the others are.

Plus the whole "keeping the younger guy" thing is a little old. These are rentals. We rarely keep these younger guys we aqcuire just like we rarely keep the veteran rentals.

Your kidding yourself if you think white and Shav will be with us next year unless a. They blow up in the playoffs or b. We end up being a lottery team next year.

Shav had rebounded okay in limited minutes and fouls at an incredible rate. Hes also a pretty terrible defender. I mean him and White haven't played much so its hard to judge but I think its incredibly obvious how much better the other guys would be.

I highly dount during the season if these four guys were up for grabs that people would think that Shav and Dj are the better players?

I mean they aren't even that young. Shav is 29 haha

Shav has played very well in the minutes he's been given.  He's rebounded well and defended well, showed hustle, and toughness, all the things we've been looking for from a big off the bench.  The fact that he came over from China and nobody has heard his name mentioned in about three years automatically makes people think he was a terrible pick up.  So far, he has shown otherwise.

DJ White has looked fairly solid in his limited minutes, as well. 

I'm happy to have those guys.  Chris Andersen and Kenyon Martin are spilt milk as far as I'm concerned.

Yeah if your being extremely optimistic that's a fair point. If you are being realistic I think every gm, player and fan would have picked the other guys.

ESPECIALLY if you are talking about in hindsight. Knowing what we know and have seen now I can't see how you can still stick with your guys.

Doc pretty much admitted it being a mistake.

Jajuan Johnson played well in limited min last year too. Are you gonna try and convince me he would be a better pick up than martin and Birdman as welll?

[Celtics18]

I think you guys are kidding youselves.

An overweight blatche is still better than Bass and Wilcox or at least better than the Chinese crop.

Same with Birdman and Martin. Its more about how bad our guys especially wilcox is than how good the others are.

Plus the whole "keeping the younger guy" thing is a little old. These are rentals. We rarely keep these younger guys we aqcuire just like we rarely keep the veteran rentals.

Your kidding yourself if you think white and Shav will be with us next year unless a. They blow up in the playoffs or b. We end up being a lottery team next year.

Shav had rebounded okay in limited minutes and fouls at an incredible rate. Hes also a pretty terrible defender. I mean him and White haven't played much so its hard to judge but I think its incredibly obvious how much better the other guys would be.

I highly dount during the season if these four guys were up for grabs that people would think that Shav and Dj are the better players?

I mean they aren't even that young. Shav is 29 haha

Shav has played very well in the minutes he's been given.  He's rebounded well and defended well, showed hustle, and toughness, all the things we've been looking for from a big off the bench.  The fact that he came over from China and nobody has heard his name mentioned in about three years automatically makes people think he was a terrible pick up.  So far, he has shown otherwise.

DJ White has looked fairly solid in his limited minutes, as well. 

I'm happy to have those guys.  Chris Andersen and Kenyon Martin are spilt milk as far as I'm concerned.

Yeah if your being extremely optimistic that's a fair point. If you are being realistic I think every gm, player and fan would have picked the other guys.

ESPECIALLY if you are talking about in hindsight. Knowing what we know and have seen now I can't see how you can still stick with your guys.

Doc pretty much admitted it being a mistake.

Jajuan Johnson played well in limited min last year too. Are you gonna try and convince me he would be a better pick up than martin and Birdman as welll?

Could you post a link to Doc's quote about signing Randolph and White over Martin and Andersen being a mistake?

Every GM except Danny Ainge (even though twenty-eight other teams' GMs passed on both) would have picked the other guys. 

Finally, yes, I'd rather have Jajuan Johnson than either Chris Andersen or Kenyon Martin.