Look at the current situation with a clear mind

[kozlodoev]

He started 5 of 45 games and the 5 starts were not the last 5 games before he got hurt (just the last 2).  Sullinger was not a starter.

Not to mention he still couldn't play starter minutes, because he was fouling too much.

[Moranis]

A little clarity

Boston has played 74 games.

Green, Terry, and Bass have played in all 74.

Rondo has missed 36. 
Barbosa has missed 33.
Bradley has missed 31.
Sullinger has missed 29.
Wilcox has missed 20.
Garnett has missed 9. 
Lee has missed 3. 
Pierce has missed 2. 


Now about the New York Knicks.

New York has played 72 games.

JR Smith is the only player to have played in all 72.  Steve Novak played in 71.

Amare Stoudemire has missed 43 games.
Iman Shumpert has missed 37 games.
Kurt Thomas has missed 33 games.
James White has missed 22 games.
Carmelo Anthony has missed 13 games.
Raymond Felton has missed 12 games.
Tyson Chandler has missed 10 games.
Jason Kidd has missed 5 games.
Pablo Prioni has missed 4 games.

Rasheed only played in 20 games all year and Kenyon Martin and Marcus Camby were late in the year signees to replace injured players. 


The Knicks haven't been affected by the rash of injuries like the Celtics have.  Frankly because they have a better constructed and deeper roster and have been willing to make the moves necessary to improve the team (like trading Ronnie Brewer for a 2nd rounder to open up a roster spot for a late in the year signing).

[slamtheking]

a lot of this team's problems are still present even when those starters are there (committing lots of turnovers, settling for too many outside shots, giving up too many offensive rebounds).

this is the core of the issue I believe when it comes to evaluating the team this year.  Didn't matter who was on the floor, these have been big issues for this team --> even going back a few years. 

I'm not expecting lots of wins with a decimated line-up but I do expect hustle and effort regardless of who's on the floor.  seeing lack of effort and lots of stupid/ careless plays by everyone is what aggravates me. 

[PhoSita]

I'm confused, Garnett, Pierce, and Rondo I get, but who is this mystery 4th starter that is out?

Sullinger?

Has to be who he meant, but to call Sullinger a starter is kind of silly.

No, it's not.

Sullinger had earned the starting role before he went out.  Doc had acknowledged he was too good not to start. 

Whether or not you think of him as a starter, Sullinger was one of the 5 best players on the team (Pierce, Rondo, KG, Green being the others).

Then you have to add to the equation that the 6th best player, Bradley, was out for most of the first half of the season.

He started 5 of 45 games and the 5 starts were not the last 5 games before he got hurt (just the last 2).  Sullinger was not a starter.

Whatever, it's irrelevant.  Sullinger was one of the top 5 players on the team, and was without question more productive and better on both ends than Bass.  So losing him means a lot.

[PhoSita]

A little clarity

Boston has played 74 games.

Green, Terry, and Bass have played in all 74.

Rondo has missed 36. 
Barbosa has missed 33.
Bradley has missed 31.
Sullinger has missed 29.
Wilcox has missed 20.
Garnett has missed 9. 
Lee has missed 3. 
Pierce has missed 2. 


Now about the New York Knicks.

New York has played 72 games.

JR Smith is the only player to have played in all 72.  Steve Novak played in 71.

Amare Stoudemire has missed 43 games.
Iman Shumpert has missed 37 games.
Kurt Thomas has missed 33 games.
James White has missed 22 games.
Carmelo Anthony has missed 13 games.
Raymond Felton has missed 12 games.
Tyson Chandler has missed 10 games.
Jason Kidd has missed 5 games.
Pablo Prioni has missed 4 games.

Rasheed only played in 20 games all year and Kenyon Martin and Marcus Camby were late in the year signees to replace injured players. 


The Knicks haven't been affected by the rash of injuries like the Celtics have.  Frankly because they have a better constructed and deeper roster and have been willing to make the moves necessary to improve the team (like trading Ronnie Brewer for a 2nd rounder to open up a roster spot for a late in the year signing).

The Knicks have a superstar who carried them for much of the season, and a DPOY candidate who played much of the season, too.

It's not really a valid comparison.

I do agree with your implication that the Celtics have still underachieved this season despite the injuries.  The injuries are a valid excuse to some extent, but the team had some really bad stretches even when they had most of their guys healthy.

The Celtics are one of the biggest underachievers of this NBA season, no doubt about it.  That, coupled with the injuries, is why a team with the talent to win 55+ games is going to struggle to finish above .500.

[kozlodoev]

Whatever, it's irrelevant.  Sullinger was one of the top 5 players on the team, and was without question more productive and better on both ends than Bass.  So losing him means a lot.

It's so entertaining when one player's underachievement and another player's overachievement results in categorical statements such as Sullinger being "without question more productive and better than Bass".

Because there is certainly a question, and Sullinger was definitely nothing to write home about offensively.

Also, Green and Terry, despite their struggles, have been quite good for us this season. So losing Sullinger doesn't mean as much as you think.

[BballTim]

A little clarity

Boston has played 74 games.

Green, Terry, and Bass have played in all 74.

Rondo has missed 36. 
Barbosa has missed 33.
Bradley has missed 31.
Sullinger has missed 29.
Wilcox has missed 20.
Garnett has missed 9. 
Lee has missed 3. 
Pierce has missed 2. 


Now about the New York Knicks.

New York has played 72 games.

JR Smith is the only player to have played in all 72.  Steve Novak played in 71.

Amare Stoudemire has missed 43 games.
Iman Shumpert has missed 37 games.
Kurt Thomas has missed 33 games.
James White has missed 22 games.
Carmelo Anthony has missed 13 games.
Raymond Felton has missed 12 games.
Tyson Chandler has missed 10 games.
Jason Kidd has missed 5 games.
Pablo Prioni has missed 4 games.

Rasheed only played in 20 games all year and Kenyon Martin and Marcus Camby were late in the year signees to replace injured players. 


The Knicks haven't been affected by the rash of injuries like the Celtics have.  Frankly because they have a better constructed and deeper roster and have been willing to make the moves necessary to improve the team (like trading Ronnie Brewer for a 2nd rounder to open up a roster spot for a late in the year signing).

  The Knicks started out the season 18-5. What would you say was the reason for the drop off in their play if you don't think injuries affected them?

[Stizz44]

Celtics are in the best situation possible for themselves.

They can’t catch-up to the 2 or 3 seed.

They don’t want the 4 or 5 seed.

And there is no advantage of being the 6 seed over  7.

Plus 7th seed gets you a better pick in the weak 2013 draft.
 

Doc tanking these last few games and letting young guys develop makes perfect sense.

[hpantazo]

Wait, what? I thought all we needed to be a great defensive team was Bradley? Wasn't he inspiring everyone to play great d and his overall presence was causing teams fits on offense a few months ago? What happened?

KG's injury?

I don't care how good your SG is defensively.  If there aren't legit bigs to defend the interior, your team is going to struggle on D.

Exactly, well said Roy. There were countless people on here around the trade deadline though arguing the opposite and saying we didn't need another defensive big, Bradley was the key to our defense. It's been made painfully clear recently that's not the case at all. No SG is going to turn around your team defense.

When KG retires, our team defense is screwed.

[albas89]

Celtics are in the best situation possible for themselves.

They can’t catch-up to the 2 or 3 seed.

They don’t want the 4 or 5 seed.

And there is no advantage of being the 6 seed over  7.

Plus 7th seed gets you a better pick in the weak 2013 draft.
 

Doc tanking these last few games and letting young guys develop makes perfect sense.

However, 8th seed would be a disaster for them and it's a realistic possibility the way they've been playing recently...

[CelticConcourse]

The difference is the Celtics' 17-championship history compared to Atlanta's history of second-round exits. The expectations are naturally high for this team: championship or bust.

I'll take a 6/7 seed, thank you!

[Moranis]

A little clarity

Boston has played 74 games.

Green, Terry, and Bass have played in all 74.

Rondo has missed 36. 
Barbosa has missed 33.
Bradley has missed 31.
Sullinger has missed 29.
Wilcox has missed 20.
Garnett has missed 9. 
Lee has missed 3. 
Pierce has missed 2. 


Now about the New York Knicks.

New York has played 72 games.

JR Smith is the only player to have played in all 72.  Steve Novak played in 71.

Amare Stoudemire has missed 43 games.
Iman Shumpert has missed 37 games.
Kurt Thomas has missed 33 games.
James White has missed 22 games.
Carmelo Anthony has missed 13 games.
Raymond Felton has missed 12 games.
Tyson Chandler has missed 10 games.
Jason Kidd has missed 5 games.
Pablo Prioni has missed 4 games.

Rasheed only played in 20 games all year and Kenyon Martin and Marcus Camby were late in the year signees to replace injured players. 


The Knicks haven't been affected by the rash of injuries like the Celtics have.  Frankly because they have a better constructed and deeper roster and have been willing to make the moves necessary to improve the team (like trading Ronnie Brewer for a 2nd rounder to open up a roster spot for a late in the year signing).

  The Knicks started out the season 18-5. What would you say was the reason for the drop off in their play if you don't think injuries affected them?

My point was lots of other teams have injuries just as severe and still have a good season.  Boston has less injuries than the Knicks yet is 9 games behind them in the standings.  Boston is quite simply an average team.  They would be a few games better without the injuries and would be a much more dangerous team come the playoffs, but they wouldn't be challenging Miami for the 1 seed.  That was the point I was making, which fits with what this thread is about.

[Moranis]

A little clarity

Boston has played 74 games.

Green, Terry, and Bass have played in all 74.

Rondo has missed 36. 
Barbosa has missed 33.
Bradley has missed 31.
Sullinger has missed 29.
Wilcox has missed 20.
Garnett has missed 9. 
Lee has missed 3. 
Pierce has missed 2. 


Now about the New York Knicks.

New York has played 72 games.

JR Smith is the only player to have played in all 72.  Steve Novak played in 71.

Amare Stoudemire has missed 43 games.
Iman Shumpert has missed 37 games.
Kurt Thomas has missed 33 games.
James White has missed 22 games.
Carmelo Anthony has missed 13 games.
Raymond Felton has missed 12 games.
Tyson Chandler has missed 10 games.
Jason Kidd has missed 5 games.
Pablo Prioni has missed 4 games.

Rasheed only played in 20 games all year and Kenyon Martin and Marcus Camby were late in the year signees to replace injured players. 


The Knicks haven't been affected by the rash of injuries like the Celtics have.  Frankly because they have a better constructed and deeper roster and have been willing to make the moves necessary to improve the team (like trading Ronnie Brewer for a 2nd rounder to open up a roster spot for a late in the year signing).

The Knicks have a superstar who carried them for much of the season, and a DPOY candidate who played much of the season, too.

It's not really a valid comparison.

I do agree with your implication that the Celtics have still underachieved this season despite the injuries.  The injuries are a valid excuse to some extent, but the team had some really bad stretches even when they had most of their guys healthy.

The Celtics are one of the biggest underachievers of this NBA season, no doubt about it.  That, coupled with the injuries, is why a team with the talent to win 55+ games is going to struggle to finish above .500.

Pierce and Garnett have missed less games combined than Anthony has.  And sure PP and KG aren't the players they once were, but they are still both all star level players (or actual all stars in the case of KG).

Garnett is also a DPOY candidate and missed less games than Chandler.

[Roy H.]

When KG retires, our team defense is screwed.

Yeah, I agree.  Rondo, Bradley, and Green all have defensive skills, but it's not going to matter a whole lot if we're abused on the inside.

[CelticConcourse]

When KG retires, our team defense is screwed.

Yeah, I agree.  Rondo, Bradley, and Green all have defensive skills, but it's not going to matter a whole lot if we're abused on the inside.

Who can be our new defensive anchor? Could a guard be it? Or must it be a big man...

Great individual defense doesn't always mean great team defense.