Losing 5 games in row, shows that KG is the real leader and not Rondo

[yelkao]

Not that I don't think KG is our most important player but didn't we loose 6 in row...like twice this year with KG playing?

How is this losing streak evidence for your point but the other ones aren't?

[LooseCannon]

There is no single leader.  The Celtics at their best, with everyone healthy enough to play, are a collective.

[crimson_stallion]

Not that I don't think KG is our most important player but didn't we loose 6 in row...like twice this year with KG playing?

How is this losing streak evidence for your point but the other ones aren't?

The difference is that this streak started as soon as KG went down - we won a single game without him, then lost every game since.

I think the point is not that KG is critical, but that KG and PP are critical.  Take either one of those guys out and this team would crumble into dust and we'd go into rebuilding mode.  We cannot win big games consistently without Pierce's clutch scoring and KG's defensive leadership.

[Juneauz]

Another ridiculous thread with no sense whatsoever.

Keep'em coming

[BballTim]

Not that I don't think KG is our most important player but didn't we loose 6 in row...like twice this year with KG playing?

How is this losing streak evidence for your point but the other ones aren't?

The difference is that this streak started as soon as KG went down - we won a single game without him, then lost every game since.

  KG played in some of those losses, he wasn't out for the entire streak.

[Celtics4ever]

We ave had so many injuries we are an average team.

[slamtheking]

Losing 5 games in row, shows that KG is the real leader and not Rondo. This is my opinion based on real facts. Missing KG is a big problem and make us pesimistic for the rest of the season.

             

Losing KG and losing 5 games shows how woefully thin the team is in the frontcourt. 
--> The only other frontcourt players that would make another NBA roster are Wilcox (a vet-min calibur player), Bass (the player voted most desired to be shipped out), Shavlik and White (2 guys that couldn't make an NBA roster to start the season).


Losing Rondo and not going completely in the toilet shows how much depth we have at guard.
--> JET, Lee and Bradley are a fairly decent 3-guard rotation where recent pickups Crawford and Williams aren't needed to eat a lot of minutes.

That's much closer to being a "fact" than what you're passing off as one.

[BballTim]

Ronda's our best player (in terms of talent), but KG has always been the most important (leadership).

I'd say in terms of "talent", Pierce is unmatched on this squad.  Guy can do it all.  But big men win you titles in this league and defense is gold.  KG is the epicenter of our defense and his impact is unparalleled on Boston. 

Rondo has skill.  He's also flawed.  He's not the most talented player, the best player, or the most important player on the Celtics.  He's really good, though.

  It's true Rondo has his flaws, but you're seriously underrating his skills. He's averaged 11+ assists/game the last 3 years, only 5 players have ever done that at least 3 times. He's had more playoff triple doubles in the last 4 years than the rest of the league combined, and only 2 players have more career playoff triple doubles than he's had in that span. He's averaged at least 14 points, 5 rebounds and 9 assists each of the last 4 seasons, only Magic's done that more times. And he's jut entering his prime.

  IIRC your method of choice for comparing players is the nba efficiency stat. Since the start of the 08-09 season PP and Rondo have almost identical overall eff/48 numbers during the regular season, while Rondo has a significant edge during the playoffs.

[Celtics18]

Losing 5 games in row, shows that KG is the real leader and not Rondo. This is my opinion based on real facts. Missing KG is a big problem and make us pesimistic for the rest of the season.

  We used to win most of the games KG missed, he must not have been a team leader in 2008 or 2009 (according to your "facts"). Also, during our 5 game losing streak KG played in 2 of the games and we lost them both, clearly his play means nothing to the team.

Tim, I don't have the energy today for a quote war with you... but you know darn well that's misleading.

In 2009, losing KG hurt the team... but the fact we had 2009 Paul Pierce, 2009 Ray Allen and 2009 Rajon Rondo on the team definitely contributed to our "success" without him.   And let's be clear about what that "success" was... we struggled to knock off a mediocre baby Bulls team (who we proved capable of DESTROYING the next year when KG returned) and then lost to Dwight Howard in the next round. 

Fact was, in 2009 we absolutely were the favorites to repeat as champions.  Do you remember how we started that season?  We won 19 in a row at one point.  WE STARTED THE SEASON 27-2 ... KG goes down and we're BARELY as good as a 41 WIN BULLS TEAM ...

Enough of this revisionist history.  We went from being potentially one of the best teams of all time... to an also-ran who needed 7 games + 7 overtimes + miracle performances by Ray Allen... to knock off a 41 win Bulls team.

KG has always been the MVP of this team.  Unfortunately right now we don't have 2009 Ray Allen, 2009 Paul Pierce and 2009 Rondo to pick up the slack and keep us strong enough to beat a 41 team.   

I know you're the world's biggest Rondo fan and you're going to argue this with an equally long rant... but it's silly.  KG is far more important to the success of this team.

We lost in seven games to the 59 win, Eastern Conference Champion Magic in the second round in '09.  In '08, we were "barely as good as" the 37 win Hawks in the first round before going on to win the title.   

By the way, since the 07-08 season, we are 43 and 27 in regular season games missed by Rondo and 45 and 27 in regular season games missed by Garnett. 

Everyone understands the positive impact that Kevin Garnett has had on the success of this team,  What's extraordinarily silly is the claim that because Kevin Garnett and Paul Pierce have been keys to success that Rajon Rondo hasn't been an equally big key to our success. 

You seem to have a penchant for picking one guy on any given good team and giving him all the credit for that team's success (your Dwight Howard comment above is just one example of that).  Ironically, it seems that this exact same reasoning is what has led you and many others to solely blame Rondo for our poor start to this season.  He was supposed to be "that guy" this year.  Your logic gets twisted, though, when you consider that the players that you consider to be the 1st and 2nd best player on this team where also playing during that stretch.  Somehow they remain completely blameless, though?

Basketball is still a team game.  I know it makes for a more easily digestible story line to try to make it an individual game, but it isn't one.  I recommend that you learn that fact. 

[Vermont Green]

There is not enough of a sample size and too many other varialbes to be able to draw a straight line between the available numbers and a conclusion that KG means more to winning or Rondo means more to winning.

But I am surprise though that people could watch this season and still come to the conclusion that Rondo is more important to winning based on on court contribution, than KG.

[Fafnir]

Losing 5 games in row, shows that KG is the real leader and not Rondo. This is my opinion based on real facts. Missing KG is a big problem and make us pesimistic for the rest of the season.

             

Losing KG and losing 5 games shows how woefully thin the team is in the frontcourt. 
--> The only other frontcourt players that would make another NBA roster are Wilcox (a vet-min calibur player), Bass (the player voted most desired to be shipped out), Shavlik and White (2 guys that couldn't make an NBA roster to start the season).


Losing Rondo and not going completely in the toilet shows how much depth we have at guard.
--> JET, Lee and Bradley are a fairly decent 3-guard rotation where recent pickups Crawford and Williams aren't needed to eat a lot of minutes.

That's much closer to being a "fact" than what you're passing off as one.

Exactly my thoughts as I've read through this thread.

[kgainez]

lol

most knew rondo was not a leader when we started winning more game without him then with him

i mean...it kinda has to say something about your team leader that we start winning games and everyone starts playing better without you.

i'm sleep though

[Q_FBE]

I think I blame rash of injuries and roster turnover more on our inconsistent regular season play then on any one player.

[Jeff]

seeing this thread for the first time

here's my reaction to the OP

AAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

[Prof. Clutch]

KG is way more of a leader, the Captain Pierce leads by example...Green is more important...Crawford and Sullinger, too...Rondo would have a very difficult time cracking the starting lineup on half the teams in the NBA - and he would be terrible off the bench...