Guessing how many teams would kill to get Rondo

[LarBrd33]

Oh I also forgot Chicago - rose.  Clearly Chicago is content with Rose. Lol.

SO how about we list some teams that actually desperately need a quality PG? 

I was going to say Dallas, but Collison isn't having a terrible season.  He's shooting pretty well.

Bobcats perhaps?  They have both Sessions and Walker.

Maybe Orlando... but I mean... they are ga-ga about Jameer Nelson over there.

I mean is there really any team other than Utah that makes sense?  Utah is in dire need of a quality PG and they have 4 quality big men.

[LarBrd33]

Problem is that this league is littered with talented scoring point guards.  We're in the midst of a point guard boom.

There are at least 6 who are arguably better than Rondo and several more of comparable talent.

Clippers - Chris Paul
Thunder - Westbrook
Spurs - Parker
Warriors - Curry
Cavs - Irving
Philly - Holiday
Brooklyn - Williams
...
I doubt any of the above teams would be interested in trading their Point guard straight up for Rondo.

Additionally you have:

Hornets - Vasquez (averaging 14, 9 and 4)
Portland - Lillard (one of the best young guards in the league)
Bucks - Jennings (23 and still improving)
Denver - Lawson
Toronto - Lowry
Timberwolves - Rubio
Washington - John Wall
Houston - Jeremy Lin

... FOr all of the above teams, I feel like it would be a tough sell.  None of the above players are perfect, but neither is Rondo... and I imagine they'd have some debate over whether or not it was an actual upgrade or not.

There are teams like Utah who clearly need a quality PG (although they'd probably prefer one who could shoot so they could spread the floor enough to let their bigs do work down low)

The list starts to get really short.  It's the reason why Ainge has been unsuccessful in trading Rondo despite shopping him every year.  Teams around the league see him as a flawed player who may be the statistical beneficiary of his system.  A lot of teams already have point guards they are content with.  And a lot of teams are content not having a star point guard in the first place... they'd rather hang onto their talented bigs and talented scorers than trade for a flawed passer.  For example, add Miami to a list of teams who doesn't give a crap if they have Rondo or not.

So I imagine the list of teams who would "kill" to get Rondo is pretty short.  And of those teams, I'm not sure how many of them have an asset we'd be that interested in.

Houston would trade Lin for Rondo in a heartbeat.

The point of that isn't whether or not Houston would trade Lin for Rondo.  The point of that is that Houston already has a sufficient point guard.  Boston wouldn't want Lin for Rondo.  Boston would want Asik+picks or James Harden, right?  ...   So my point there is that Houston isn't an option.  Take them off the list of teams that are a realistic destination.

If you're lookin for a destination for Rondo it has to be a team that has something to offer... and has a strong desire for a quality point guard.  Houston isn't one of those teams.... because why would you give up a bunch of assets for a quality point guard when you already have a decent one on your roster?  You're then going to be putting in a bunch of work shopping your current point guard and you'll be in the same crappy position Boston was in when they were trying to shop Rondo.  Not worth the effort.

Because Rondo's not just a quality PG, he's an amazing player; a top 15 game changer who'd put Houston over the top. He wouldn't just mimic Lin and add some better game; he'd take over the dang team when he comes back from his injury. The only reason we wouldn't get a couple assets is because of said injury.

Even if I agreed with this... what would Houston then do with Lin?  Bench him?  Try to trade him for pennies on the dollar?   We've already established that most of this league is content with their point guards... Houston would be in the same crappy position BOston is in (shopping Rondo), but even worse.   And again... what would Houston give us ?   If you're HOuston do you go, "Oh Boston wants Omar Asik and two firsts for Rondo... lets do that!... then we can trade Jeremy Lin for scraps"  Does that make sense?... or are they better off just hanging onto Lin?...

They are better off just hanging onto Lin.  This isn't a video game.  Trading is difficult. 

So no... Rondo wouldn't necessarily "put them over the top".  If we were talking about straight up trading Lin for Rondo... perhaps? ... but why in the hell would Boston do that?  Boston would want Harden or some combination of bigs and picks.   

[CelticConcourse]

Houston would take Rondo for Smith, Parsons, firsts.... They're so desperate for a star, they've been stockpiling assets for four years. But they'd want a big, preferably. If we offered Rondothey would have to accept imo,

[BballTim]

Because Rondo's not just a quality PG, he's an amazing player; a top 15 game changer who'd put Houston over the top. He wouldn't just mimic Lin and add some better game; he'd take over the dang team when he comes back from his injury. The only reason we wouldn't get a couple assets is because of said injury.

  This is why Danny always says that the Rondo trade rumors are false. He's not as excited about trading a player who can perform as well as Rondo in the playoffs for someone who can't, and those that can aren't generally available in trade.

[LarBrd33]

Houston would take Rondo for Smith, Parsons, firsts.... They're so desperate for a star, they've been stockpiling assets for four years. But they'd want a big, preferably. If we offered Rondothey would have to accept imo,

As a Celtic fan, do you want a poo-poo platter of Smith, Parsons and 1sts for Rondo?  If so... maybe I'm wrong on this.  I didn't think giving up expendable assets qualified as "killing to get Rondo"

Let's ask BBallTim... Tim, is this fair value for your hero?

[Galeto]

Houston is not trading Parsons and first round picks for Rondo.  For one, Parsons has been great lately, not just good, not just better than expectations, I mean flatout great.  And two, Houston is no longer desperate for a star because Harden is definitively just that.  He is spectacular and better than Rondo.  I don't think they want to acquire a ball dominant point guard and take the ball out of Harden's hands, while also giving up Parsons and first round picks. 

[LooseCannon]

What I want for Rondo in a trade, assuming it's not a salary dump as part of rebuilding, is a big man who is either on an annual salary at least as big as Rondo or a big who would if he were a free agent this off-season, but not a big who I would never give such a contract to if he were a free agent and I had the cap space.

I'm aware that Rondo would probably have to be part of a package in such a deal, something like Rondo, a young player, and a first.

What I wouldn't do is trade him for a serviceable replacement point guard and an adequate big.

[Tr1boy]

I can only see like 3 or 4 teams being interested in rondo and giving us something back worthwhile

1. Phoenix - Dragic is a backup. You can tell their offense is suffering with a lack of a true pg

2. Orl - Nelson is finished

3. Kings - Thomas is ok and not really a true pg. Same can be said about Evans and Fredette has been a massive disappointment.

4. Mavs - Mayo is not a pg.

I would be happy to trade rondo to any of these teams for their high 1st round pick as the primary trading chip

[nickagneta]

There are teams like Utah who clearly need a quality PG (although they'd probably prefer one who could shoot so they could spread the floor enough to let their bigs do work down low)

You know. Its funny. Just a few years ago, a statement like this would prove what a lack of basketball knowledge one had as, if the team had a bunch of good bigs, the most important thing to go along with them is an excellent PG who can run an offense and get the bigs the ball where they could best utilize it to score or, if covered or double teamed, kick out to an open man.

Now, it seems the trend tends to be to have the PG be able to shoot real well and efficiently first to properly open the floor for the bigs to work and avoid trap downs from the PG's defender.

I actually think in the case of Utah with Milsap, Jefferson, Kanter and Favors that a pass first PG that can get those very talented bigs the ball in good position down low is more important. With bigs like that, let the SF and SG space the floor and let the PG work his thing with the bigs.

[AshyLarry]

Problem is that this league is littered with talented scoring point guards.  We're in the midst of a point guard boom.

There are at least 6 who are arguably better than Rondo and several more of comparable talent.

Clippers - Chris Paul
Thunder - Westbrook
Spurs - Parker
Warriors - Curry
Cavs - Irving
Philly - Holiday
Brooklyn - Williams
...
I doubt any of the above teams would be interested in trading their Point guard straight up for Rondo.

Additionally you have:

Hornets - Vasquez (averaging 14, 9 and 4)
Portland - Lillard (one of the best young guards in the league)
Bucks - Jennings (23 and still improving)
Denver - Lawson
Toronto - Lowry
Timberwolves - Rubio
Washington - John Wall
Houston - Jeremy Lin

... FOr all of the above teams, I feel like it would be a tough sell.  None of the above players are perfect, but neither is Rondo... and I imagine they'd have some debate over whether or not it was an actual upgrade or not.

There are teams like Utah who clearly need a quality PG (although they'd probably prefer one who could shoot so they could spread the floor enough to let their bigs do work down low)

The list starts to get really short.  It's the reason why Ainge has been unsuccessful in trading Rondo despite shopping him every year.  Teams around the league see him as a flawed player who may be the statistical beneficiary of his system.  A lot of teams already have point guards they are content with.  And a lot of teams are content not having a star point guard in the first place... they'd rather hang onto their talented bigs and talented scorers than trade for a flawed passer.  For example, add Miami to a list of teams who doesn't give a crap if they have Rondo or not.

So I imagine the list of teams who would "kill" to get Rondo is pretty short.  And of those teams, I'm not sure how many of them have an asset we'd be that interested in.

Houston would trade Lin for Rondo in a heartbeat.

Agreed, but Conley, Teague, Dragic are pretty good too. Miami, NYK, Pacers all have no real need for him. Nobody really wants Rondo.

I actually think that Conley, Teague, and Dragic should replace Vasquez, Lowry, and Lin on the above list.

But you're right about those 3 teams (NY is questionable); there are some teams, the way they're set up, who don't need a great pg to flourish.

But a team can always upgrade. The Heat really just don't need a pg, because of LeBron and Wade, so they're a bad example.



BUT, let me analyze (and this is pretending Rondo didn't tear his ACL):

Outside of -

Brooklyn
Minny
LAC
Cleveland
OKC
Portland
Philly
Golden State
San Antonio
Chicago
Washington (although I don't think Wall's gonna be much of a player; could be wrong)

- every team would see Rondo as an upgrade over their current starting PG (the youngins on the teams above are valued based on current skill, and potential)


Which leaves:

New York
Milwaukee
LAL
Orlando
Denver
Atlanta
Utah
Indie
Toronto
Dallas
Detroit
Houston
Charlotte
Sacramento
New Orleans
Phoenix
Memphis
Miami

To which Rondo would be an upgrade over their current pg.

Now, I already mentioned why Miami wouldn't want/ need Rondo.


But out of the other aforementioned teams:



New York doesn't really have the assets.

The Lakers have Nash for the moment, and if a trade were to happen, it would have already happened, I feel. Plus, they also don't really have the assets. I don't think they'd trade Dwight, and I don't think we'd take anyone else.

Memphis is doing pretty dang good with Conley, and lacks assets when it comes down to it. They won't give up Gasol.

So those teams are out.


Which brings me to the teams that have the potential assets, but may lack incentive because they're happy with their current pg:

Atlanta -I think it depends on the Josh Smith situation; they're high on Teague.

Denver - I think they'd trade for Rondo, to get that star that can put them over the top. But they're doing pretty freaking good, as is, and Lawson may or may not be their best player on a balanced team.

Indiana - I think they're cool with their current lineup, and their team is set up similarly to the current Celtics, but with a deeper frontcourt. You never know, they have some good youngins, and I think Rondo would put them over the top. George Hill is still young, and they have pg depth, so idt this is happening.

Milwaukee - I'm not sure how high they are on Jennings, but Rondo's a HUGE upgrade, either way. Jennings is only 23, so he still has a lot of development ahead of him.

Houston - Rondo is, and will be miles ahead of Lin, and Houston has a lot to give up. Rondo and Harden would be scary together, but it would probably cost them Asik, so I think it's out.

Toronto - Yeah, Kyle Lowry is good, no real flaws, but he's not an all star. They'd probably give up one of Derozan or Ross.


So, that leaves -

Orlando - Could just use some good players at this point.

Utah - Mo Williams is bleh. Rondo would have the same effect on them as he would for Denver. They're the best team out of this group, but Rondo would fit this lineup like a glove.

Dallas - They don't have too many assets, but they have Mark Cuban and cap space. Also depends on CP3.

Detroit - Brandon Knight is good, and has a boatload of potential, but I don't see him ever being as good as Rondo. Also, they, IN ALL LIKELINESS, wouldn't give up Drummond or Monroe. MAYBE Monroe.

Charlotte - Matters how high on Kemba they are. Me thinks they'd take Rondo.

Sacramento - Pfff. They'll trade anyone but Cousins.

New Orleans - I think (THINK) they'd give up Vasquez and Rivers, and probably more, for Rondo.

Phoenix - Once again, Pffff.

- These teams lack the good-great PG, lack the wins, and have the potential assets and probable inclination to trade some of said assets for Rondo. (picks count as assets)

So that's the basis from which you can guess who'd trade for Rajon Rondo, and why; unless you have some inside knowledge on the mind of some GM's. It's a fair amount of opinion, but I stayed as rational as possible.

[Eddie20]

BballTim, your Rondo obsession is a bit concerning, but I'm trying to gauge  how much you (over) value him. If Sacramento or New Orleans calls you and asks you to name your price, what is a fair return value for you to trade Rondo to each?

I don't even bother arguing with you about Rondo anymore and I'm certain others have quit too. You're too much of a Rondo apologist to have impartial thoughts on the matter. However, I am curious to hear your thoughts.

[AshyLarry]

Problem is that this league is littered with talented scoring point guards.  We're in the midst of a point guard boom.

There are at least 6 who are arguably better than Rondo and several more of comparable talent.

Clippers - Chris Paul
Thunder - Westbrook
Spurs - Parker
Warriors - Curry
Cavs - Irving
Philly - Holiday
Brooklyn - Williams
...
I doubt any of the above teams would be interested in trading their Point guard straight up for Rondo.

Additionally you have:

Hornets - Vasquez (averaging 14, 9 and 4)
Portland - Lillard (one of the best young guards in the league)
Bucks - Jennings (23 and still improving)
Denver - Lawson
Toronto - Lowry
Timberwolves - Rubio
Washington - John Wall
Houston - Jeremy Lin

... FOr all of the above teams, I feel like it would be a tough sell.  None of the above players are perfect, but neither is Rondo... and I imagine they'd have some debate over whether or not it was an actual upgrade or not.

There are teams like Utah who clearly need a quality PG (although they'd probably prefer one who could shoot so they could spread the floor enough to let their bigs do work down low)

The list starts to get really short.  It's the reason why Ainge has been unsuccessful in trading Rondo despite shopping him every year.  Teams around the league see him as a flawed player who may be the statistical beneficiary of his system.  A lot of teams already have point guards they are content with.  And a lot of teams are content not having a star point guard in the first place... they'd rather hang onto their talented bigs and talented scorers than trade for a flawed passer.  For example, add Miami to a list of teams who doesn't give a crap if they have Rondo or not.

So I imagine the list of teams who would "kill" to get Rondo is pretty short.  And of those teams, I'm not sure how many of them have an asset we'd be that interested in.

Houston would trade Lin for Rondo in a heartbeat.

The point of that isn't whether or not Houston would trade Lin for Rondo.  The point of that is that Houston already has a sufficient point guard.  Boston wouldn't want Lin for Rondo.  Boston would want Asik+picks or James Harden, right?  ...   So my point there is that Houston isn't an option.  Take them off the list of teams that are a realistic destination.

If you're lookin for a destination for Rondo it has to be a team that has something to offer... and has a strong desire for a quality point guard.  Houston isn't one of those teams.... because why would you give up a bunch of assets for a quality point guard when you already have a decent one on your roster?  You're then going to be putting in a bunch of work shopping your current point guard and you'll be in the same crappy position Boston was in when they were trying to shop Rondo.  Not worth the effort.

Because Rondo's not just a quality PG, he's an amazing player; a top 15 game changer who'd put Houston over the top. He wouldn't just mimic Lin and add some better game; he'd take over the dang team when he comes back from his injury. The only reason we wouldn't get a couple assets is because of said injury.

Even if I agreed with this... what would Houston then do with Lin?  Bench him?  Try to trade him for pennies on the dollar?   We've already established that most of this league is content with their point guards... Houston would be in the same crappy position BOston is in (shopping Rondo), but even worse.   And again... what would Houston give us ?   If you're HOuston do you go, "Oh Boston wants Omar Asik and two firsts for Rondo... lets do that!... then we can trade Jeremy Lin for scraps"  Does that make sense?... or are they better off just hanging onto Lin?...

They are better off just hanging onto Lin.  This isn't a video game.  Trading is difficult. 

So no... Rondo wouldn't necessarily "put them over the top".  If we were talking about straight up trading Lin for Rondo... perhaps? ... but why in the hell would Boston do that?  Boston would want Harden or some combination of bigs and picks.

All I said was Houston would trade Lin for Rondo in a heartbeat, and we'd get a couple assets back. Let me rephrase one thing; they'd be over the top in a couple years. Parsons, Harden, and most of their young team is still developing. They'll be a force of sorts in a few years, either way. But Rondo will secure that.

I never said, nor implied that Boston would accept the trade. Don't put words in my mouth, nor patronize me.

[LarBrd33]

BballTim, your Rondo obsession is a bit concerning, but I'm trying to gauge  how much you (over) value him. If Sacramento or New Orleans calls you and asks you to name your price, what is a fair return value for you to trade Rondo to each?

I don't even bother arguing with you about Rondo anymore and I'm certain others have quit too. You're too much of a Rondo apologist to have impartial thoughts on the matter. However, I am curious to hear your thoughts.

I like Tim.  He sticks to his guns.  I've had a ton of back and forth with him.  But I'm pretty sure he's on Ainge's payroll as social media propagandist... he's trying to keep the waning perception alive that Rondo is a superstar until Ainge can flip him for assets (cuz NBA GM's get their info from Celticsblog's message board, you see).  So hopefully Tim's response to this is, "I'd accept nothing less than LeBron James"... Tim is doing this for us and for that, I have nothing but admiration and respect for his impossible task.   Trust me, I'm a scientist.

[LarBrd33]

Problem is that this league is littered with talented scoring point guards.  We're in the midst of a point guard boom.

There are at least 6 who are arguably better than Rondo and several more of comparable talent.

Clippers - Chris Paul
Thunder - Westbrook
Spurs - Parker
Warriors - Curry
Cavs - Irving
Philly - Holiday
Brooklyn - Williams
...
I doubt any of the above teams would be interested in trading their Point guard straight up for Rondo.

Additionally you have:

Hornets - Vasquez (averaging 14, 9 and 4)
Portland - Lillard (one of the best young guards in the league)
Bucks - Jennings (23 and still improving)
Denver - Lawson
Toronto - Lowry
Timberwolves - Rubio
Washington - John Wall
Houston - Jeremy Lin

... FOr all of the above teams, I feel like it would be a tough sell.  None of the above players are perfect, but neither is Rondo... and I imagine they'd have some debate over whether or not it was an actual upgrade or not.

There are teams like Utah who clearly need a quality PG (although they'd probably prefer one who could shoot so they could spread the floor enough to let their bigs do work down low)

The list starts to get really short.  It's the reason why Ainge has been unsuccessful in trading Rondo despite shopping him every year.  Teams around the league see him as a flawed player who may be the statistical beneficiary of his system.  A lot of teams already have point guards they are content with.  And a lot of teams are content not having a star point guard in the first place... they'd rather hang onto their talented bigs and talented scorers than trade for a flawed passer.  For example, add Miami to a list of teams who doesn't give a crap if they have Rondo or not.

So I imagine the list of teams who would "kill" to get Rondo is pretty short.  And of those teams, I'm not sure how many of them have an asset we'd be that interested in.

Houston would trade Lin for Rondo in a heartbeat.

Agreed, but Conley, Teague, Dragic are pretty good too. Miami, NYK, Pacers all have no real need for him. Nobody really wants Rondo.

I actually think that Conley, Teague, and Dragic should replace Vasquez, Lowry, and Lin on the above list.

But you're right about those 3 teams (NY is questionable); there are some teams, the way they're set up, who don't need a great pg to flourish.

But a team can always upgrade. The Heat really just don't need a pg, because of LeBron and Wade, so they're a bad example.



BUT, let me analyze (and this is pretending Rondo didn't tear his ACL):

Outside of -

Brooklyn
Minny
LAC
Cleveland
OKC
Portland
Philly
Golden State
San Antonio
Chicago
Washington (although I don't think Wall's gonna be much of a player; could be wrong)

- every team would see Rondo as an upgrade over their current starting PG (the youngins on the teams above are valued based on current skill, and potential)


Which leaves:

New York
Milwaukee
LAL
Orlando
Denver
Atlanta
Utah
Indie
Toronto
Dallas
Detroit
Houston
Charlotte
Sacramento
New Orleans
Phoenix
Memphis
Miami

To which Rondo would be an upgrade over their current pg.

Now, I already mentioned why Miami wouldn't want/ need Rondo.


But out of the other aforementioned teams:



New York doesn't really have the assets.

The Lakers have Nash for the moment, and if a trade were to happen, it would have already happened, I feel. Plus, they also don't really have the assets. I don't think they'd trade Dwight, and I don't think we'd take anyone else.

Memphis is doing pretty dang good with Conley, and lacks assets when it comes down to it. They won't give up Gasol.

So those teams are out.


Which brings me to the teams that have the potential assets, but may lack incentive because they're happy with their current pg:

Atlanta -I think it depends on the Josh Smith situation; they're high on Teague.

Denver - I think they'd trade for Rondo, to get that star that can put them over the top. But they're doing pretty freaking good, as is, and Lawson may or may not be their best player on a balanced team.

Indiana - I think they're cool with their current lineup, and their team is set up similarly to the current Celtics, but with a deeper frontcourt. You never know, they have some good youngins, and I think Rondo would put them over the top. George Hill is still young, and they have pg depth, so idt this is happening.

Milwaukee - I'm not sure how high they are on Jennings, but Rondo's a HUGE upgrade, either way. Jennings is only 23, so he still has a lot of development ahead of him.

Houston - Rondo is, and will be miles ahead of Lin, and Houston has a lot to give up. Rondo and Harden would be scary together, but it would probably cost them Asik, so I think it's out.

Toronto - Yeah, Kyle Lowry is good, no real flaws, but he's not an all star. They'd probably give up one of Derozan or Ross.


So, that leaves -

Orlando - Could just use some good players at this point.

Utah - Mo Williams is bleh. Rondo would have the same effect on them as he would for Denver. They're the best team out of this group, but Rondo would fit this lineup like a glove.

Dallas - They don't have too many assets, but they have Mark Cuban and cap space. Also depends on CP3.

Detroit - Brandon Knight is good, and has a boatload of potential, but I don't see him ever being as good as Rondo. Also, they, IN ALL LIKELINESS, wouldn't give up Drummond or Monroe. MAYBE Monroe.

Charlotte - Matters how high on Kemba they are. Me thinks they'd take Rondo.

Sacramento - Pfff. They'll trade anyone but Cousins.

New Orleans - I think (THINK) they'd give up Vasquez and Rivers, and probably more, for Rondo.

Phoenix - Once again, Pffff.

- These teams lack the good-great PG, lack the wins, and have the potential assets and probable inclination to trade some of said assets for Rondo. (picks count as assets)

So that's the basis from which you can guess who'd trade for Rajon Rondo, and why; unless you have some inside knowledge on the mind of some GM's. It's a fair amount of opinion, but I stayed as rational as possible.

I agree with pretty much everything you said.  TP.

[BballTim]

BballTim, your Rondo obsession is a bit concerning, but I'm trying to gauge  how much you (over) value him. If Sacramento or New Orleans calls you and asks you to name your price, what is a fair return value for you to trade Rondo to each?

I don't even bother arguing with you about Rondo anymore and I'm certain others have quit too. You're too much of a Rondo apologist to have impartial thoughts on the matter. However, I am curious to hear your thoughts.

I like Tim.  He sticks to his guns.  I've had a ton of back and forth with him.  But I'm pretty sure he's on Ainge's payroll as social media propagandist... he's trying to keep the waning perception alive that Rondo is a superstar until Ainge can flip him for assets (cuz NBA GM's get their info from Celticsblog's message board, you see).  So hopefully Tim's response to this is, "I'd accept nothing less than LeBron James"... Tim is doing this for us and for that, I have nothing but admiration and respect for his impossible task.   Trust me, I'm a scientist.

  And I'm still impressed at the way you doggedly repeat your claims under the assumption that you'll single-handedly form a majority opinion.