I know we are playing well and all but..

[timobusa]

And I'm officially bummed that even threads about missing his play are now cause to push for his trade and/or say people are glad he's off the court. I guess this thread will just get merged with the big thread in a few posts.

I didn't start this tread to talk about him being traded or pushing him to be gone.
This was for people who miss Rajon Rondo, not all CB posters want Rondo out of this team.
I'm bummed too man, I just don't get some of these people.

And before someone says we're better without him, the team play style has been different since Rondo went down.

When Rondo was here we were a half court offense mostly because that's what Doc wanted us to do. When Rondo unfortunately had that injury, we we're forced to be a fast paced run and gun team because we had to be, no one has better handles than him on this team. And that worked out well for us.

It's not a matter of we're better without him, We just found a playing style that suits this new team.

I'm sure Rondo can adapt to this new system when he comes back. If you guys are hardcore Celtics fan, you'll know that back in 2007 til 2010 this was Rondo's style of play.
Run and Gun.

[kgainez]

I think this run without him could end up being one of the most valuable and humbling moments of his career.

"Yes you are a great player and you're very valuable to this team, but no one is irreplaceable. Just because you CAN handle the ball for 40 minutes and be effective creating shots doesn't mean you should do that."

I'm hoping that him watching this team play without him is inspiring him to play with the fire defensively that he once had, I hope it leads to him trusting his teammates more with the ball, and I hope it leads to him cutting offensively with purpose so that his teammates can be allowed to set HIM up with easy baskets.

Couldn't agree more

[kgainez]

i actually feel the opposite.  i dont miss him at all and am really enjoying the hustle, grit, and team play.  i love seeing the ball move around via the pass rather than via the dribble.

not a knock on rondo, but i am enjoying not having him. i like rondo a lot, but he frustrates me bc i think he is capable of more

This has been some of the most enjoyable basketball since the championship season.

Rondo is a talented guy, but he is not the foundation of this team. He is a complementary part, and hopefully that's the message that comes from this injury.

Still believe - strongly - that he is a bad fit with this current group of Celtics, believe that's been pretty clearly demonstrated at this point and believe he should be shopped for a big in the off-season.

We will be fine with Bradley, Lee, et al.

This too.

[BballTim]

I think this run without him could end up being one of the most valuable and humbling moments of his career.

"Yes you are a great player and you're very valuable to this team, but no one is irreplaceable. Just because you CAN handle the ball for 40 minutes and be effective creating shots doesn't mean you should do that."

  I think it's amazing how much people personalize this. Rondo doesn't call team meetings and tell Doc and the other players how he's playing and what their roles are, and he doesn't send people to the bench when they don't give him the ball and do what he wants. He's implementing Doc's game plan. The other players on the team aren't playing the way that they want to now that they're free from Rondo's iron-fisted grip on the team, they're implementing Doc's new game plan. Doc might come up with some new twists based on what he's been seeing, but he won't have to hope Rondo's humbled enough to listen to Doc's ideas.

[GreenEnvy]

i actually feel the opposite.  i dont miss him at all and am really enjoying the hustle, grit, and team play.  i love seeing the ball move around via the pass rather than via the dribble.

not a knock on rondo, but i am enjoying not having him. i like rondo a lot, but he frustrates me bc i think he is capable of more

Got to agree. Love Rondo, wish him the best upon his return, even if it isn't here. But I pay money for the League Pass to be entertained. We weren't very entertaining when Rondo was healthy. Frustrating is right, I expected so much more from this team "led" by him, but only saw that success when he went down. Since his injury, just about every game I have enjoyed and loved their effort (excepts the the game in LA).

[Fafnir]

When Rondo was here we were a half court offense mostly because that's what Doc wanted us to do. When Rondo unfortunately had that injury, we we're forced to be a fast paced run and gun team because we had to be, no one has better handles than him on this team. And that worked out well for us.

It's not a matter of we're better without him, We just found a playing style that suits this new team.

We're not playing a run and gun style though. Our pace picked up only slightly.

[SHAQATTACK]

i actually feel the opposite.  i dont miss him at all and am really enjoying the hustle, grit, and team play.  i love seeing the ball move around via the pass rather than via the dribble.

not a knock on rondo, but i am enjoying not having him. i like rondo a lot, but he frustrates me bc i think he is capable of more

Got to agree. Love Rondo, wish him the best upon his return, even if it isn't here. But I pay money for the League Pass to be entertained. We weren't very entertaining when Rondo was healthy. Frustrating is right, I expected so much more from this team "led" by him, but only saw that success when he went down. Since his injury, just about every game I have enjoyed and loved their effort (excepts the the game in LA).

this reflects how I feel as well.   It seemed like Rondo would make a spectacular play every now and then  and everybody gives him a pass for the 50 bone head , selfish, dominating the ball ego trips he wasted bringing the ball up court.  He was killing the game . team and fans all at the same time.

His up and down mood and lack of interest , effort what ever is NOT good for the team.

He needs a huge attitude adjustment.....or moreover a trade.

[csfansince60s]

When Rondo was here we were a half court offense mostly because that's what Doc wanted us to do. When Rondo unfortunately had that injury, we we're forced to be a fast paced run and gun team because we had to be, no one has better handles than him on this team. And that worked out well for us.

It's not a matter of we're better without him, We just found a playing style that suits this new team.

We're not playing a run and gun style though. Our pace picked up only slightly.

.....but we are advancing the ball up-court far more now with the pass than with Rondo's dribble, as fast as he might be.

I guess he never had the coach, when he was a little kid in Basketball 101 who said. "OK, Rondo, I know you're fast and YOU know you're fast, but dribble the ball as fast as you can down the court to the other baseline." As we all know, the coach, when Rondo was halfway down the court, would whip the ball over his head to the other end of the court and then ask Rondo the question "OK, Rondo, which ball got there first, your's or mine."

Blame this on Doc all you want, but in my opinion, most of this falls on Rondo.

[Celtics18]

When Rondo was here we were a half court offense mostly because that's what Doc wanted us to do. When Rondo unfortunately had that injury, we we're forced to be a fast paced run and gun team because we had to be, no one has better handles than him on this team. And that worked out well for us.

It's not a matter of we're better without him, We just found a playing style that suits this new team.

We're not playing a run and gun style though. Our pace picked up only slightly.

.....but we are advancing the ball up-court far more now with the pass than with Rondo's dribble, as fast as he might be.

I guess he never had the coach, when he was a little kid in Basketball 101 who said. "OK, Rondo, I know you're fast and YOU know you're fast, but dribble the ball as fast as you can down the court to the other baseline." As we all know, the coach, when Rondo was halfway down the court, would whip the ball over his head to the other end of the court and then ask Rondo the question "OK, Rondo, which ball got there first, your's or mine."

Blame this on Doc all you want, but in my opinion, most of this falls on Rondo.

Sure, the ball can get to the other end of the court faster with the pass than the dribble, but there sort of has to be someone up the other end of the court to catch the ball if you want to throw it ahead. 

[Fafnir]

When Rondo was here we were a half court offense mostly because that's what Doc wanted us to do. When Rondo unfortunately had that injury, we we're forced to be a fast paced run and gun team because we had to be, no one has better handles than him on this team. And that worked out well for us.

It's not a matter of we're better without him, We just found a playing style that suits this new team.

We're not playing a run and gun style though. Our pace picked up only slightly.

.....but we are advancing the ball up-court far more now with the pass than with Rondo's dribble, as fast as he might be.

Yet we're not generating anymore fastbreak points out of it. Nor has our transition efficiency really budged much.

Rondo would call for the ball but he was a willing and aggressive passer in transition. I really think the "advancing with the pass" is overblown. Tommy would be proud how much he's hammered that phrase into the collective C's fanbase.

[CoachBo]

When Rondo was here we were a half court offense mostly because that's what Doc wanted us to do. When Rondo unfortunately had that injury, we we're forced to be a fast paced run and gun team because we had to be, no one has better handles than him on this team. And that worked out well for us.

It's not a matter of we're better without him, We just found a playing style that suits this new team.

We're not playing a run and gun style though. Our pace picked up only slightly.

Don't agree with this at all.

The tempo of the offense, keyed by significantly improved ball movement, is decidedly faster.

There is plenty of basketball between "pounding the ball for 15 seconds at the top of the key" and "run and gun." Portraying it as an either/or proposition is not accurate at all.

[Fafnir]

When Rondo was here we were a half court offense mostly because that's what Doc wanted us to do. When Rondo unfortunately had that injury, we we're forced to be a fast paced run and gun team because we had to be, no one has better handles than him on this team. And that worked out well for us.

It's not a matter of we're better without him, We just found a playing style that suits this new team.

We're not playing a run and gun style though. Our pace picked up only slightly.

Don't agree with this at all.

The tempo of the offense, keyed by significantly improved ball movement, is decidedly faster.

There is plenty of basketball between "pounding the ball for 15 seconds at the top of the key" and "run and gun." Portraying it as an either/or proposition is not accurate at all.

*shrug* People see what they want to see.

We're playing at a similar pace as before with Rondo as our primary ball handler. About 1 possession more per game last time I updated my game log numbers. (doesn't include the Pacer game)

We aren't getting more fast break points either.

If you want to argue there is more ball movement, go nuts. The C's are clearly moving the ball more instead having Rondo be our primary handler/penetrator.

But we're not a run and gun fast paced team. Nor are we a fast breaking team either. That's what I was saying.

Of course the "pound the ball for 15 seconds" is hyperbole in and off itself.

[Fafnir]

Tempo means ball movement to you Coach? Is that what you're saying?

Pace is defined pretty rigoursly in my head, its how many possessions a team is getting in a game.

I think that's a distinction that is important. Either way the C's aren't a run and gun team. Not the team's identity.

[CoachBo]

I'm not at all interested in jumping into the tiresome daily defenses of Rondo that pop up like toadstools in a wet yard on this board.

Statistics, including the useless sabremetrics that so many wrongly insist are a thorough measure of the game, can say whatever the user wants them to say.

The eyes don't lie, and I thoroughly disagree with your conclusions and stand by my own. The tempo of this offense is markedly faster without him, as is the quality of half-court defense. Calling this offense at a similar pace is hyperbolic and is simply refuted by the eyes; there is little or no similarity.

We are just going to have to agree to totally disagree.

[Fafnir]

We'll definitely have to agree to disagree. Like I said I think terminology might be more the issue than the substance but maybe not.

The tempo of this offense is markedly faster without him, as is the quality of half-court defense. Calling this offense at a similar pace is simply refuted by the eyes; there is little or no similarity.

The eye test is the ultimate trump card to get rid of pesky evidence. Rail against stats all you want, but your eyes lie. Our brains don't have the capacity to properly record the 180+ different sequences in a given basketball game, let along sort them into an accurate conclusion.

We are playing a different style and scoring a lot better since Rondo went down. But we're not playing at a much faster pace or defending better. Our defense has been good since Bradley got back and has maintained its level since then and our possession per game is only up slightly.