Avery Bradley vs Tony Allen

[mgent]

Conclusion: TA as a PG will turn the ball over at a high rate no doubt.

And worse, not get many assists at all. Tony as a PG (on offense) would be awesome for one game then terrible for the rest.

I don't think Tony as a PG part-time is the reason for his turnovers myself, though it didn't help. I think he was just way more prone to out of control drives and bad passes. He got better as he got older.

If by got older you mean got healthier.  And real minutes.

I think it's blatantly clear that the inconsistent minutes affected his play.  He's the epitome of a "confidence player."  And let's not forget how little confidence he was starting out with by never having a healthy year in the league.  It was obvious how much more in control he was when he was playing in a rhythm.

Which is exactly why he left a team 2 minutes from a championship for a below .500 one (and everyone gave him crap for that too).

[scaryjerry]

This thread is just annoying with the Tony Allen lovers.

He has been fantastic with the grizzlies, gotcha, he was good for us in 2010, k. He was borderline brain dead besides that and an infuriating player to watch and unbearably unintelligent to listen to an interview, deal with it.

[Fafnir]

I answered your post in the past thread.

Um no you didn't.  Actually nobody did, it was the last post in the thread.

I don't understand either of your points.  Plenty of off the ball SGs average much less than 1.5 assists in 18 minutes (Bradley for one).  And a guard that shoots jumpshots is obviously not even going to have opportunities to turn the ball over.  And how does bad shooting = dumb anyway?

As I've said, Tony turned the ball over more than he should have.  That doesn't outweigh his other contributions, nor did it justify the amount of nonstop talk his TOs generated.

Nope I didn't, I thought I had. Must have half typed it and then stopped for some reason my bad.

Anyways look at turnover rates not just raw turnovers, Tony was far worse than  Green/Bradley when he was here. 19 TO% is really bad.

He was the second worst SG in the league in 06-07 and the worst SG in the league the next three years when it comes to TOV% or TO ratio.

When you're the worst player at the league at an aspect of the game you're going to get a fair amount of crap for it. Especially when they're often really ugly looking turnovers.

Tony earned his rep. For a guard who doesn't get many assists (so he wasn't passing a bunch) his turnovers were terrible both on a per minute basis and on a per shot basis.

[Fafnir]

Conclusion: TA as a PG will turn the ball over at a high rate no doubt.

And worse, not get many assists at all. Tony as a PG (on offense) would be awesome for one game then terrible for the rest.

I don't think Tony as a PG part-time is the reason for his turnovers myself, though it didn't help. I think he was just way more prone to out of control drives and bad passes. He got better as he got older.

If by got older you mean got healthier.  And real minutes.

I think it's blatantly clear that the inconsistent minutes affected his play.  He's the epitome of a "confidence player."  And let's not forget how little confidence he was starting out with by never having a healthy year in the league.  It was obvious how much more in control he was when he was playing in a rhythm.

Which is exactly why he left a team 2 minutes from a championship for a below .500 one (and everyone gave him crap for that too).

I disagree, because he's been banged up in Memphis a lot too and has received very similar minutes to what he got before the big 3 were put together.

Systematically their offense might be easier for him to handle but I tend to think he just got better as a basketball player.

[Celtics18]

This thread is just annoying with the Tony Allen lovers.

He has been fantastic with the grizzlies, gotcha, he was good for us in 2010, k. He was borderline brain dead besides that and an infuriating player to watch and unbearably unintelligent to listen to an interview, deal with it.

As a Tony Allen lover, I find the haters kind of annoying.

[csfansince60s]

AB, on smarts alone, never-mind upside.

TA made one of the stupidest, most bone-headed moves that a player could make, and it still angers me to this day, because it robbed himself and us of his play for an extended period of time: that self-inflicted blowing out of his knee on a dead play.

Dumb, dumb and dumberer.

Trying to dunk anytime that isn't during a game is a dumb play?

I guess you hate every basketball player who's got some hops ever.

The answer to your first question is a qualified "No." Your use of the absolute "anytime" obviously calls for a "No" answer. However, what TA did in this instance was dumb.

Here's a link to the dunk:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3tKJ5lypzk

TA was clearly hot-dogging here and put on way too much mustard. The whistle blows when TA is at the 3 point arc. To finish a dunk from there was excessive.

The sad part was that either TA's mom or grandma was at the game visting in Boston. TA admitted afterwards that that may have  influenced the emphasis he put on that dunk. He was out of control. How many players have blown out ACLs while dunking? Any?

Secondly, in response to your comment about hating, what kind of silly hyperbole is that, to use two "evers" to overemphasize, without any rational basis, my feelings about players "with hops".

Ludicrous comment.

[Big_Matt34]

It's not as simple as who is better IMO.

If i'm the Celtics, i prefer AB.

If i'm the Grizzlies, i prefer TA.

[BballTim]

AB, on smarts alone, never-mind upside.

TA made one of the stupidest, most bone-headed moves that a player could make, and it still angers me to this day, because it robbed himself and us of his play for an extended period of time: that self-inflicted blowing out of his knee on a dead play.

Dumb, dumb and dumberer.

Trying to dunk anytime that isn't during a game is a dumb play?

I guess you hate every basketball player who's got some hops ever.

The answer to your first question is a qualified "No." Your use of the absolute "anytime" obviously calls for a "No" answer. However, what TA did in this instance was dumb.

Here's a link to the dunk:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3tKJ5lypzk

TA was clearly hot-dogging here and put on way too much mustard. The whistle blows when TA is at the 3 point arc. To finish a dunk from there was excessive.

The sad part was that either TA's mom or grandma was at the game visting in Boston. TA admitted afterwards that that may have  influenced the emphasis he put on that dunk. He was out of control. How many players have blown out ACLs while dunking? Any?

Secondly, in response to your comment about hating, what kind of silly hyperbole is that, to use two "evers" to overemphasize, without any rational basis, my feelings about players "with hops".

Ludicrous comment.

  KG blew out his knee trying to finish off an alley-oop, I'd call that dunking, and I think his trying to block every shot that opponents throw up after the whistle blows isn't the best thing for the team either. I doubt you find what KG does every game to be any more intelligent or any less bone-headed than TA's ill-fated dunk.

[csfansince60s]

KG's injury was during the course of the game in a live play in a contested situation. Clearly different.

KG's blocking of shots after the whistle is different in that TA's "dunk" was totally out of control, which was evidenced by the fact that he missed the dunk in an uncontested situation and landed so violently that he ripped both his ACL and MCL. KG is never that out of control when he blocks those shots after the whistle.

That would be dumb, and KG is not that.

[scaryjerry]

AB, on smarts alone, never-mind upside.

TA made one of the stupidest, most bone-headed moves that a player could make, and it still angers me to this day, because it robbed himself and us of his play for an extended period of time: that self-inflicted blowing out of his knee on a dead play.

Dumb, dumb and dumberer.

Trying to dunk anytime that isn't during a game is a dumb play?

I guess you hate every basketball player who's got some hops ever.

The answer to your first question is a qualified "No." Your use of the absolute "anytime" obviously calls for a "No" answer. However, what TA did in this instance was dumb.

Here's a link to the dunk:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3tKJ5lypzk

TA was clearly hot-dogging here and put on way too much mustard. The whistle blows when TA is at the 3 point arc. To finish a dunk from there was excessive.

The sad part was that either TA's mom or grandma was at the game visting in Boston. TA admitted afterwards that that may have  influenced the emphasis he put on that dunk. He was out of control. How many players have blown out ACLs while dunking? Any?

Secondly, in response to your comment about hating, what kind of silly hyperbole is that, to use two "evers" to overemphasize, without any rational basis, my feelings about players "with hops".

Ludicrous comment.

  KG blew out his knee trying to finish off an alley-oop, I'd call that dunking, and I think his trying to block every shot that opponents throw up after the whistle blows isn't the best thing for the team either. I doubt you find what KG does every game to be any more intelligent or any less bone-headed than TA's ill-fated dunk.

Who ever claimed kg is the sharpest knife in the drawer? Generally speaking he has a genius basketball IQ though and in his mind he doesn't want the opponent to get momentum by seeing the ball go in even after the whistle...Tonys dunk served no purpose and was rather dumb even though that's not the only reason for his rep

[CelticConcourse]

Gotta feel bad for Tony

I feel like Bradley will tear his ACL soon.
Jinx.

[csfansince60s]

AB, on smarts alone, never-mind upside.

TA made one of the stupidest, most bone-headed moves that a player could make, and it still angers me to this day, because it robbed himself and us of his play for an extended period of time: that self-inflicted blowing out of his knee on a dead play.

Dumb, dumb and dumberer.

Trying to dunk anytime that isn't during a game is a dumb play?

I guess you hate every basketball player who's got some hops ever.

The answer to your first question is a qualified "No." Your use of the absolute "anytime" obviously calls for a "No" answer. However, what TA did in this instance was dumb.

Here's a link to the dunk:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3tKJ5lypzk

TA was clearly hot-dogging here and put on way too much mustard. The whistle blows when TA is at the 3 point arc. To finish a dunk from there was excessive.

The sad part was that either TA's mom or grandma was at the game visting in Boston. TA admitted afterwards that that may have  influenced the emphasis he put on that dunk. He was out of control. How many players have blown out ACLs while dunking? Any?

Secondly, in response to your comment about hating, what kind of silly hyperbole is that, to use two "evers" to overemphasize, without any rational basis, my feelings about players "with hops".

Ludicrous comment.

  KG blew out his knee trying to finish off an alley-oop, I'd call that dunking, and I think his trying to block every shot that opponents throw up after the whistle blows isn't the best thing for the team either. I doubt you find what KG does every game to be any more intelligent or any less bone-headed than TA's ill-fated dunk.

Who ever claimed kg is the sharpest knife in the drawer? Generally speaking he has a genius basketball IQ though and in his mind he doesn't want the opponent to get momentum by seeing the ball go in even after the whistle...Tonys dunk served no purpose and was rather dumb even though that's not the only reason for his rep

I agree with your last sentence on both counts.

[TripleOT]

TA is considered one of the best two wing defenders in the league.  In Memphis, he's totally matured and is a leader who sets the tone with toughness and all out hustle.  I would have loved that in Boston the last three seasons. 

AB certainly has a bit of TA in him when he makes one or two boneheaded plays a game, like driving one on three and airballing a layup, but young players have to figure out what they can and cannot do in the league. 

I wouldn't call TA dumb.  In fact, he's smart enough to spend countless hours studying his opponent and smart enough to figure out how how to maximize his skill set to create NAB value.  He should garner a nice pay day this summer, something only a handful of players in his draft class could do. I'm sure many of those guys have a higher IQ than TA, but so what?

I'd favor TA if I needed a guy to set the toughness tone for my team and needed a guy to cover bigger  wing players.  I'd take AB if I needed someone to cover PGs, handle the ball a bit, and hit open threes.  AB has a bigger upside, so I'd probably go with him.   

[tonyto3690]

Tony will be on Lee/Pierce, not Bradley
Bradley will be on Conley, not Tony

[cman88]

I think Bradley is a better player offensively...his shot hasnt been falling as well this season, but he has real nice form that extends out to 3 point range

where if you leave him open, he can make you pay...Tony allen really didnt offer that threat