The Jeff Green thread

[clover]

Look what Green's been shooting this year since he got back into the swing of things:

.512, .414, and.863 in February,and
.481, .407, .826 in March

At 4.1 and 4.2 RBs in the same time periods, he's got some room for growth there, shall we say, in that area.

But he's shown some top-level defense against some of the league's least defensible players. 

I think Danny made a very good trade and then a good signing after that to lock this guy up, but we mostly haven't noticed so far because he's still recovering from surgery and he's not perfect.

[indeedproceed]

FTR, tonight is one of those games you point at if you're still on the fence (not that there haven't been great reasons for optimism as well). 43 minutes, 5 rebounds? When he's playing a majority of those minutes in the frontcourt? That's just flat out terrible. Especially when for a lot of those minutes the best big on the other side is Ed Davis or Darrell Arthur.

[moiso]

FTR, tonight is one of those games you point at if you're still on the fence (not that there haven't been great reasons for optimism as well). 43 minutes, 5 rebounds? When he's playing a majority of those minutes in the frontcourt? That's just flat out terrible. Especially when for a lot of those minutes the best big on the other side is Ed Davis or Darrell Arthur.

He was pretty invisible.

[CelticConcourse]

A slight problem is that, if Jeff isn't scoring he can't do much. He's a scorer, and when he doesn't score, he'll get a few rebounds, an assist or two, play some good defense and get a block or two, but all-in-all he's only a scorer. He scores, and when he doesn't he will get blasted.

So he better get scoring... 22ppg is viable, 24ppg would be nice. (not this year, of course)

[indeedproceed]

A slight problem is that, if Jeff isn't scoring he can't do much. He's a scorer, and when he doesn't score, he'll get a few rebounds, an assist or two, play some good defense and get a block or two, but all-in-all he's only a scorer. He scores, and when he doesn't he will get blasted.

So he better get scoring... 22ppg is viable, 24ppg would be nice. (not this year, of course)

But see here is the problem. Jeff Green should've scored well tonight. He shot 40% from the field (bad for a season, but for one game it's 'meh', not terrible). He was guarded by one of Zbo, Arthur, or Davis. He should've eaten all those guys, excepting maybe Arthur (who still hasn't been the same guy he was 2 years ago since his injury).

And 5 boards in 45 minutes? That's not just bad, that's terrible. That's be terrible for Rondo from the point. Then, you figure Garnett and anyone of the multitude of Sullinger or any other capable frontcourt players we could have including Bass weren't picking up the slack, Green should've fallen into at least 7 or 8 boards tonight.

Famous paraphrased line from Basketball Jesus: 'When my shot wasn't falling, Id try to concentrate on another part of my game to help out. Id work on my passing, or my rebounding to help get the win'

It's just frustrating. There was no reason to lose tonight, even with KG out.

[ssspence]

A slight problem is that, if Jeff isn't scoring he can't do much. He's a scorer, and when he doesn't score, he'll get a few rebounds, an assist or two, play some good defense and get a block or two, but all-in-all he's only a scorer. He scores, and when he doesn't he will get blasted.

So he better get scoring... 22ppg is viable, 24ppg would be nice. (not this year, of course)

Jeff Green's a scorer? 22ppg?

His career per minute numbers stink, even when he played next to Durant.

[kgainez]

I want you all to look at

1. The way Jeff Green is utilized. Doc likes a spaced floor. And when KG is not in especially, he's got Green just STANDING at the 3 point line. Why? Because you have a guy like BB that's not gonna take a super deep shot and if he's the guy taking shots, other teams will live with that. Teams are starting to slouch on AB. So the only threat is Paul Pierce who can slice you up from wherever, but preferably, midrange.
Jeff is just STANDING at the 3 point line and THAT'S WHERE HE'S SUPPOSED TO BE! Do you all not know his system? Doc's other wing player sits on the wing. And when JG is even playing the 4, he's that hybrid so that their 4 can be spaced out and AB/Bass/PP can attack if need be. Jeff's not getting a ton of rebounds being a perimeter shooter.

2. Jeff is almost never utlized in the pick and roll. Which is something I do not understand. The Celtics love the pick and pop, but don't pick and roll much with Rondo gone. A pick and roll with PP is DANGEROUS. But PP almost never passes it to Jeff.
The next time you watch a game, please notice how many times Jeff is open on the perimeter and in the pick and roll. They RARELY go to him.

3. Why are you all so hype on rebounds if Doc isn't? And I've been trying to get this for a while. Doc has easily said he doesn't care that much about rebounding. JG is getting between 4 and 6 a game. Jeff focuses more on boxing out. That's why guys like AB, PP can get boards, because the big guy is boxed out and someone can come in and get the rebound. Jeff is not 7 foot. Jeff (rarely) plays our Center.

Is there room for improvement? Heck yes. I think if Green gets a move or two, like a post shimmy to allow him to go right or something...he'd be cool. I mean...he needs something...sometimes he just has to stand there and wait to pass the ball because the right lane is cut off. That's not cool.

I think it's crazy the standards he's held to here. Could he be more consistent. Sure! But to call him invisible tonight...I'm not sure...And I'm almost thinking that's the way Doc wants him to play. Pull out there defender on the wing cuz he has to respect your shooting. Space the floor and make the shot if you get it.

I mean...had he sinked 2 of the late shot clock chucks he HAD to throw up, you all would be singing a different tune.

But whatever.

[indeedproceed]

3. Why are you all so hype on rebounds if Doc isn't? And I've been trying to get this for a while. Doc has easily said he doesn't care that much about rebounding. JG is getting between 4 and 6 a game. Jeff focuses more on boxing out. That's why guys like AB, PP can get boards, because the big guy is boxed out and someone can come in and get the rebound. Jeff is not 7 foot. Jeff (rarely) plays our Center.

A) Doc doesn't care about offensive rebounds. He's lamented our poor defensive rebounding on more than one occasion.

B) If anyone of the starters played 45 minutes and had less than 5 rebounds, it's a bad night. Find the last time that happened. I can't think of a recent celtics starter including Ray Allen who could've played that many minutes and had less than 6 boards in 45 minutes. Now factor in Green who played the majority of his minutes in the frontcourt. It is a big deal.

[kgainez]

3. Why are you all so hype on rebounds if Doc isn't? And I've been trying to get this for a while. Doc has easily said he doesn't care that much about rebounding. JG is getting between 4 and 6 a game. Jeff focuses more on boxing out. That's why guys like AB, PP can get boards, because the big guy is boxed out and someone can come in and get the rebound. Jeff is not 7 foot. Jeff (rarely) plays our Center.

A) Doc doesn't care about offensive rebounds. He's lamented our poor defensive rebounding on more than one occasion.

B) If anyone of the starters played 45 minutes and had less than 5 rebounds, it's a bad night. Find the last time that happened. I can't think of a recent celtics starter including Ray Allen who could've played that many minutes and had less than 6 boards in 45 minutes. Now factor in Green who played the majority of his minutes in the frontcourt. It is a big deal.

It's not, or he would've been benched.

I think what none of us realize, is that Doc's system is hard to understand. This is why none of us get his rotations and why he plays the players he's playing. If JG was so invisible and doing the wrong thing, we've seen in the past Doc sit his guys.
I mean just the other night, Doc only gave Jeff 26 minutes because he missed a defensive assignment.

In order to get 45 minutes, maybe with the exception of 8 or so 'garbage time' minutes, he played a significant amount of the game. Why? Because he was correctly doing what he's been ASKED TO DO...IN THIS SYSTEM!!

Seriously. Jeff makes 2 or 3 more shots, guys could give a poop less about his 5 rebounds. AND JEFF BOXES OUT. JEFF IS NOT A REBOUNDER. NEVER HAS BEEN. Everyone knows it. So let's stop the JG rebound rhetoric. It makes 0 sense.

[indeedproceed]

It makes zero sense that a guy who has Jeff Green's size strength and athleticism can't rebound, and can't manage to score more against an injury ridden grizzlies front line.

And as far as his minutes tonight, choosing the worst of two evils doesn't make either one a viable choice in an ideal world. Doc played the rotation he thought would give him the chance to win. Maybe of tonight had been one of the nights JG decided to show up, he would've been proven right.

[kgainez]

It makes zero sense that a guy who has Jeff Green's size strength and athleticism can't rebound, and can't manage to score more against an injury ridden grizzlies front line.

And as far as his minutes tonight, choosing the worst of two evils doesn't make either one a viable choice in an ideal world. Doc played the rotation he thought would give him the chance to win. Maybe of tonight had been one of the nights JG decided to show up, he would've been proven right.

I mean, I'm not sure what to tell you. You act like JG has averaged 7 or 8 rebounds in his career.

And who was injured?

I just disagree with the idea that JG didn't 'show up'...and this is what I'm saying. None of us have any idea of what Doc is asking of his guys. I'm telling you. The game against the Hornets, I think it was where JG only played 26 minutes. He was all aggressive in the first half. 13 points off like 4 or 5 shots.

Then he got sat. I have no clue. No one knows. But it seems like in the 2nd half he was asked to play differently. And Doc sat him when he couldn't.
The Miami game happened cuz he got hot early and well, I just think when a guy gets that hot, you got to feed him. Doc has also said he likes the mismatches.

The 4spot in the West is not the same as the 4spot in the East. We're talking Kevin Love vs. Shane Battier. We're talking Blake Griffin vs. David West. A Jeff Green can exploit his mismatch out in the Eastern Conference. But in the West it's a whole different ball game. He doesn't have as much as an advantage. and I HAVE heard Doc say that he wants JG to exploit his mismatches if he hasn't. If not, well that's just basketball. And you can only ask JG to play in the system. Which is to space the floor so there will be many opportunities.

Some of Jeff's other games have looked like 16/5 and everyone's ok with that...he didn't do anything but make more shots. And again, please watch the game and notice how many times JG is on an island at the 3 point line or on the roll. Never utilized.

[indeedproceed]

Yeah but 16/5 in 30 minutes is a world of difference than 12/5 in 45 minutes. Especially when KG is out.

As far as playing within the system, I'm not going to fault you there. But even playing within the system with let's say 10 lost possessions as a decoy in the corner, if JG is playing as aggressive as he's supposed to, 12 points on 10 shots is still utterly terrible in 45 minutes.

[kgainez]

Yeah but 16/5 in 30 minutes is a world of difference than 12/5 in 45 minutes. Especially when KG is out.

As far as playing within the system, I'm not going to fault you there. But even playing within the system with let's say 10 lost possessions as a decoy in the corner, if JG is playing as aggressive as he's supposed to, 12 points on 10 shots is still utterly terrible in 45 minutes.

Oh fooey
at least 2-3 of those were last second heaves (I remember two distinctly)

And to make another point...I hate how Jeff has to get scraps. So we run 10 plays...5 for PP, 2 for Terry, 1 for Bass, AB chucks some and Jeff just has to make due with what he gets?

I think my biggest issue is EVERYONE knows that Jeff is an offensive player. He's great defensively (which could be a reason for so many minutes), but he can be a scorer. Why not CALL MORE PLAYS SPECIFICALLY FOR HIM??

[moiso]

3. Why are you all so hype on rebounds if Doc isn't? And I've been trying to get this for a while. Doc has easily said he doesn't care that much about rebounding. JG is getting between 4 and 6 a game. Jeff focuses more on boxing out. That's why guys like AB, PP can get boards, because the big guy is boxed out and someone can come in and get the rebound. Jeff is not 7 foot. Jeff (rarely) plays our Center.

A) Doc doesn't care about offensive rebounds. He's lamented our poor defensive rebounding on more than one occasion.

B) If anyone of the starters played 45 minutes and had less than 5 rebounds, it's a bad night. Find the last time that happened. I can't think of a recent celtics starter including Ray Allen who could've played that many minutes and had less than 6 boards in 45 minutes. Now factor in Green who played the majority of his minutes in the frontcourt. It is a big deal.

It's not, or he would've been benched.

I think what none of us realize, is that Doc's system is hard to understand. This is why none of us get his rotations and why he plays the players he's playing. If JG was so invisible and doing the wrong thing, we've seen in the past Doc sit his guys.
I mean just the other night, Doc only gave Jeff 26 minutes because he missed a defensive assignment.

In order to get 45 minutes, maybe with the exception of 8 or so 'garbage time' minutes, he played a significant amount of the game. Why? Because he was correctly doing what he's been ASKED TO DO...IN THIS SYSTEM!!

Seriously. Jeff makes 2 or 3 more shots, guys could give a poop less about his 5 rebounds. AND JEFF BOXES OUT. JEFF IS NOT A REBOUNDER. NEVER HAS BEEN. Everyone knows it. So let's stop the JG rebound rhetoric. It makes 0 sense.

Maybe Doc should ask the whole team to just box out.  Nobody has to actually grab the ball.  It worked for Green when he was boxing out Ryan Anderson, right?

[BballTim]

3. Why are you all so hype on rebounds if Doc isn't? And I've been trying to get this for a while. Doc has easily said he doesn't care that much about rebounding. JG is getting between 4 and 6 a game. Jeff focuses more on boxing out. That's why guys like AB, PP can get boards, because the big guy is boxed out and someone can come in and get the rebound. Jeff is not 7 foot. Jeff (rarely) plays our Center.

A) Doc doesn't care about offensive rebounds. He's lamented our poor defensive rebounding on more than one occasion.

B) If anyone of the starters played 45 minutes and had less than 5 rebounds, it's a bad night. Find the last time that happened. I can't think of a recent celtics starter including Ray Allen who could've played that many minutes and had less than 6 boards in 45 minutes. Now factor in Green who played the majority of his minutes in the frontcourt. It is a big deal.

It's not, or he would've been benched.

I think what none of us realize, is that Doc's system is hard to understand. This is why none of us get his rotations and why he plays the players he's playing. If JG was so invisible and doing the wrong thing, we've seen in the past Doc sit his guys.
I mean just the other night, Doc only gave Jeff 26 minutes because he missed a defensive assignment.

In order to get 45 minutes, maybe with the exception of 8 or so 'garbage time' minutes, he played a significant amount of the game. Why? Because he was correctly doing what he's been ASKED TO DO...IN THIS SYSTEM!!

Seriously. Jeff makes 2 or 3 more shots, guys could give a poop less about his 5 rebounds. AND JEFF BOXES OUT. JEFF IS NOT A REBOUNDER. NEVER HAS BEEN. Everyone knows it. So let's stop the JG rebound rhetoric. It makes 0 sense.

  That depends on who else is available to play those minutes and whether those players are a) good and b) doing exactly what Doc wants all the time. It would also have to be something correctable.