Can you answer these questions for Spoelstra?

[bfrombleacher]

Jeff Green

Outside of their "big three", the Heat have a team of spot up shooters and nothing but. Chalmers, Battier, James Jones and that guy.

What happens when Doc puts in Pierce and JG (especially against their small ball (which, according to Heat fans, Spoelstra invented. Seriously))?

LeBron James defends one of them. What do the Heat do to stop it? An old, shattered Battier?

Wilcox/Darko/Garnett/Sully

If they go small ball, all their non-LeBron/Wade wing players are old spot up shooters that our big can cover.

On the flip side, who defends Wilcox/Darko/Garnett? Bosh defends one, how about the other?

Put in Haslem? Pick your poison. Wilcox is bigger and more athletic. Darko is way bigger. Garnett will kill him.

Guards

Barbosa, our 5th best guard, is better than all their non-Wade guards.

All 5 of our guards love running. What will Wade do against shooting guards with fresh legs that keep going at him?

Edit:

Combine the 3 and suppose we go [guard]/JG/Pierce/[legit-sized big]/[legit-sized big]

That was more what I of had in mind when I started this thread.

Their best lineup is [guard/spot up shooter]/Wade/spot up shooter/LeBron/Bosh

The [guard] defends Wade, JG/Pierce against LeBron, Pierce/JG against one spot up shooter, a big against the other and Bosh is covered by a big.

On the flipside...what would they do? There's only one of LeBron and three of our weaker big (Wilcox or Darko or even Sully if Bosh is defending KG), Pierce and Jeff Green. It's not like their spot up shooters are great defenders. Think Tyson Chandler in the pre-season against us.

Wade is going to have to defend the guard. Run the guard through PnR's.

Outside of Rondo, the 3 rotation (as of right now) guards all pose problems for Wade as well. Lee has size and defense, Bradley I don't need to elaborate on and the Jet is the one he'll have to stay on on D 100% of the time.

If they switch in their big and forget small ball, it's going to be Haslem. Wilcox is bigger and much more athletic and Darko is way bigger. Again, think Tyson Chandler in the pre-season against us.

[Who]

(1) I think Battier is a fine matchup against Jeff Green. Miami will be comfortable with that.

(2) They'll leave Battier on Wilcox or Bass. They'd probably need to switch LeBron off of Pierce and onto Darko or Sully though. With Battier covering Pierce.

Neither Wilcox or Bass is a strong enough shot-creator in the post to force Miami away from that Miami. Darko (7-0, 270lbs) should be against a small guy like Battier (6-8, 225lbs) and Sully (6-9, 270lbs) stands a very good chance too. I'd expect LeBron (6-9, 270lbs) to be fully capable of handing both players but Pierce would have an easier (but still difficult) matchup with Battier there instead of LeBron.

If Boston goes with two bigs who are post threats (KG + Darko/Sully) and two big wings (Green and Pierce), I think that would force even more difficult matchups for Miami.

Personally, I think they should drop one of their guards for Rashard Lewis and let Lewis defend either Green (with LeBron staying on a big and Battier on Pierce) or the weaker post-scoring big man (with LeBron back on Pierce and Battier on Green). Then leave either Wade at PG or Chalmers at PG. The Heat would still have two ball-handlers with LeBron + Wade/Chalmers and lots of shooting / floor spacing (Rashard, Battier + Bosh at center). In this type of a lineup, I'd expect Boston to lose more offensive firepower than Miami does.

Also, I don't think Bass or Wilcox or Darko or Sully can ably defend a Rashard Lewis or Shane Battier on the perimeter. Very difficult for interior guys like that to play sound man-to-man defense [the easy part = limited shot creators, stand still shooters] + effective team defense [the hard part = with LeBron/Wade's dribble penetration and Bosh pulling the other big out of the paint] on perimeter shooting threats like Battier/Rashard. None of them have shown a comfort level defending on the perimeter in the past.

Garnett could defend them (Rashard, Battier) but then you lose his interior defense and leave Bosh with an advantageous matchup against whichever big man (Darko, Sully, Bass, Wilcox) is left on him.

(3) I don't think Miami should be sacred of a running game. They should invite it.

[j804]

^Bass or Green are going to make Battier pay you watch

[BudweiserCeltic]

Bass won't make Battier pay, but I think Wilcox could.

Sullinger is the X factor in all of this.

And no mention of Miller? I think he's currently their most dangerous bench player.

[j804]

Bass won't make Battier pay, but I think Wilcox could.

Sullinger is the X factor in all of this.

And no mention of Miller? I think he's currently their most dangerous bench player.

yes he will Bass will take him to the post he's worked at it over the summer he not going to let Battier guard him, well see

[chambers]

They'll be fine.
Their speed and help defense ensures the best switching and help coverage in the NBA. They have the best rotations in the NBA too.

They'll destroy a below par line up like Darko, KG, Wilcox, Green or anyone of our 'big' line ups the same way they'll probably beat the Lakers- outrun you all game and push the ball up the court, forcing you to play their game. Darkos post moves are questionable, Wilcox's post move's are questionable. KG's are great, Greens are okay, but it's not like we have anyone other than KG than can go 1v1 in the paint All Star style...perhaps Sully will get to a Carlos Boozer level on offense in a season or two?

We need another post threat to really get Haslem or Bosh in foul trouble early on. Bass gets better every game but he doesn't have the tricky, polished post game that we've needed for a while. Someone like Millsap that can run the floor but is just that bit more physical than Jeff Green would be great. So would Josh Smith inside.
They can both protect the basket on defense with their speed and strength.

If we don't make a trade/move, our best hopes are Green and Sully  I guess.

[snively]

One element that Green might take away from Miami is the LeBron on Rondo ploy.  I think Spo is happy with Battier picking up either Pierce or Green, but when both of them are on the floor, I don't think he'll be happy with Wade on one of them (Wade proved to be pretty vulnerable against Pierce, and he'd be giving up a lot of size to Green in the post).  That would mean LBJ wouldn't be allowed to cover Rondo.

[Who]

Bass won't make Battier pay, but I think Wilcox could.

I think Battier would be a more difficult defender than most for Wilcox to attack.

Wilcox' post game is dependent on his superior quickness/athleticism at the power forward position -- Wilcox goes around guys and/or uses his agility/balance gets people off balance rather than overpowering (strength based moves) them in the post -- but Battier has excellent quickness/mobility (natural small forward) relative to the power forward position. So I think Battier can handle Wilcox' shot-creation skills (post game, face up game).

I don't think Wilcox has the power (6-9, 235lbs) to overwhelm Battier (6-8, 225lbs). I thought Battier did a great job on David West in the playoffs who is a bigger (6-9, 245lbs) and more skilled post-option / shot creator.

However, I think guys like Darko (7-0, 270lbs) and Sullinger (6-9, 270lbs) have the physical size to really cause Battier some problems down in the post. Sullinger looked a really skilled power based post scorer in college and Darko, while not as skilled, is simply huge (physically).

[BudweiserCeltic]

Bass won't make Battier pay, but I think Wilcox could.

I think Battier would be a more difficult defender than most for Wilcox to attack.

Wilcox' post game is dependent on his superior quickness/athleticism at the power forward position -- Wilcox goes around guys and/or uses his agility/balance gets people off balance rather than overpowering (strength based moves) them in the post -- but Battier has excellent quickness/mobility (natural small forward) relative to the power forward position. So I think Battier can handle Wilcox' shot-creation skills (post game, face up game).

I don't think Wilcox has the power (6-9, 235lbs) to overwhelm Battier (6-8, 225lbs). I thought Battier did a great job on David West in the playoffs who is a bigger (6-9, 245lbs) and more skilled post-option / shot creator.

However, I think guys like Darko (7-0, 270lbs) and Sullinger (6-9, 270lbs) have the physical size to really cause Battier some problems down in the post. Sullinger looked a really skilled power based post scorer in college and Darko, while not as skilled, is simply huge (physically).

Thing with Wilcox is that he was very good at the pick-and-roll with our team, and that's where he'll do his damage, he has enough foot speed and athletism that will make Battier hard to guard him under that scenario.

The problem with Bass is that he doesn't know how to play "big". He gets the ball on the post, and he squats while dribbling the ball, or lowers his body a lot making it much easier to guard to smaller players.

I think Wilcox is in a better position to avoid those sorts of situations.

As for David West, I really don't recall the situation. Where they feeding him in the post? Was he merely content with a pick and pop game? David West's speed probably played against him too.

Pacers were content with pounding the ball with Hilbert inside though, and was working until they went away from it in the latter part of the series, so I suspect West didn't play at the post much at all. But again, just assumptions I hope you can clarify for me as I don't recall much of those games.

[Who]

Miami's small ball lineup is vulnerable to size but Garnett is the Celtics only genuine high quality big men. None of the others are even clear cut starting bigs.

The Celtics don't really have the talent (big man) to exploit this vulnerability. Size, yes. Talented size? Outside of Garnett, not so much. I think Boston's best tactic is to matchup with Miami by going small with Jeff Green at the power forward position.

Maybe Sullinger. He is the one guy I am holding out some hope for but he's still a rookie and rookie who doesn't appear to be able to defend anyone that small ball Miami lineup. Still, he's the one big guy (post scorer) I am holding out hope for to punish that small-ball lineup.

[Who]

Bass won't make Battier pay, but I think Wilcox could.

I think Battier would be a more difficult defender than most for Wilcox to attack.

Wilcox' post game is dependent on his superior quickness/athleticism at the power forward position -- Wilcox goes around guys and/or uses his agility/balance gets people off balance rather than overpowering (strength based moves) them in the post -- but Battier has excellent quickness/mobility (natural small forward) relative to the power forward position. So I think Battier can handle Wilcox' shot-creation skills (post game, face up game).

I don't think Wilcox has the power (6-9, 235lbs) to overwhelm Battier (6-8, 225lbs). I thought Battier did a great job on David West in the playoffs who is a bigger (6-9, 245lbs) and more skilled post-option / shot creator.

However, I think guys like Darko (7-0, 270lbs) and Sullinger (6-9, 270lbs) have the physical size to really cause Battier some problems down in the post. Sullinger looked a really skilled power based post scorer in college and Darko, while not as skilled, is simply huge (physically).

Thing with Wilcox is that he was very good at the pick-and-roll with our team, and that's where he'll do his damage, he has enough foot speed and athletism that will make Battier hard to guard him under that scenario.

The problem with Bass is that he doesn't know how to play "big". He gets the ball on the post, and he squats while dribbling the ball, or lowers his body a lot making it much easier to guard to smaller players.

I think Wilcox is in a better position to avoid those sorts of situations.

As for David West, I really don't recall the situation. Where they feeding him in the post? Was he merely content with a pick and pop game? David West's speed probably played against him too.

Pacers were content with pounding the ball with Hilbert inside though, and was working until they went away from it in the latter part of the series, so I suspect West didn't play at the post much at all. But again, just assumptions I hope you can clarify for me as I don't recall much of those games.

David West got a fair amount of touches in the post against Battier. Not as many as he should have. Neither did Hibbert. But West got enough of them and he didn't accomplish much. He got some joy against Battier buy by and large Battier defended him very well and kept him contained.

[ImShakHeIsShaq]

I think you guys are confusing weight with strength, sure Battier can be similar in weight but it doesn't mean he is as strong as our bigs are. Now Lebroid is strong as heck but he is one player. David West looks to me like a finesse player, Wilcox isn't, I feel he can bang inside much better than West... I think Wilcox would be more difficult to guard than West, for Battier... that's all speculation though. Who do they put out there when we have a lineup like this... RR, PP, JG, KG, and Darko?? They can put Wade on RR (RR will win that), Lebron on PP or JG (probably Green b/c he is more athletic), then Battier on PP or JG (PP probably), Bosh on KG, who do they have who can stop Darko (someone who I see y'all underrate)... Haslem? I look for Darko to go right through Haslem like a flea and the same if we exchange Darko for Wilcox... Darko and Wilcox can both handle Haslem on Defense, which would keep them close enough to the paint on help D. Wilcox and Darko are also fast enough (Darko isn't as slow as some suggest either) that they could also handle Battier on defense but they would be pulled further out, which is bad for help D but all 5 of our guys out there are pretty good man defenders... you can't stop Wade or Lebroid but PP, RR, and Green are solid enough defenders to stay with them and make them take jumpers (which they are not that good at unless it's a hot night for them). I think we will give Mia more matchup problems than you guys are giving us. We can match them or make them have to try and match up with us (which Doc will do)... they are vulnerable to the big lineups... I know it was preseason, but NO is an example of what bigs can do to Mia (imagine a team like us with our DEFENSE against them, b/c NO is not a stalwart on D like we are).

[celtsfan84]

I think you guys are confusing weight with strength, sure Battier can be similar in weight but it doesn't mean he is as strong as our bigs are. Now Lebroid is strong as heck but he is one player. David West looks to me like a finesse player, Wilcox isn't, I feel he can bang inside much better than West... I think Wilcox would be more difficult to guard than West, for Battier... that's all speculation though. Who do they put out there when we have a lineup like this... RR, PP, JG, KG, and Darko?? They can put Wade on RR (RR will win that), Lebron on PP or JG (probably Green b/c he is more athletic), then Battier on PP or JG (PP probably), Bosh on KG, who do they have who can stop Darko (someone who I see y'all underrate)... Haslem? I look for Darko to go right through Haslem like a flea and the same if we exchange Darko for Wilcox... Darko and Wilcox can both handle Haslem on Defense, which would keep them close enough to the paint on help D. Wilcox and Darko are also fast enough (Darko isn't as slow as some suggest either) that they could also handle Battier on defense but they would be pulled further out, which is bad for help D but all 5 of our guys out there are pretty good man defenders... you can't stop Wade or Lebroid but PP, RR, and Green are solid enough defenders to stay with them and make them take jumpers (which they are not that good at unless it's a hot night for them). I think we will give Mia more matchup problems than you guys are giving us. We can match them or make them have to try and match up with us (which Doc will do)... they are vulnerable to the big lineups... I know it was preseason, but NO is an example of what bigs can do to Mia (imagine a team like us with our DEFENSE against them, b/c NO is not a stalwart on D like we are).

1) Chris Wilcox is not stronger than David West.

2) People are underrating Darko because he has proven to be pretty awful at professional basketball for a long stretch of time.  Miami would be thrilled to see him play heavy minutes instead of Bradley, Terry, Lee, Bass, or Sullinger. 

Miami's answer to that lineup is to hope we run our offense through Darko, create easy fast break baskets against a slow lineup after Darko turns the ball over, and laugh all the way to the Finals.  Darko is a fine spot-minute defensive big and I'm glad we have him, but I'd hesitate to suggest that Miami would have problems guarding him.  Any lineup that features Darko is at best our 1,000th best offensive lineup.

[ImShakHeIsShaq]

I think you guys are confusing weight with strength, sure Battier can be similar in weight but it doesn't mean he is as strong as our bigs are. Now Lebroid is strong as heck but he is one player. David West looks to me like a finesse player, Wilcox isn't, I feel he can bang inside much better than West... I think Wilcox would be more difficult to guard than West, for Battier... that's all speculation though. Who do they put out there when we have a lineup like this... RR, PP, JG, KG, and Darko?? They can put Wade on RR (RR will win that), Lebron on PP or JG (probably Green b/c he is more athletic), then Battier on PP or JG (PP probably), Bosh on KG, who do they have who can stop Darko (someone who I see y'all underrate)... Haslem? I look for Darko to go right through Haslem like a flea and the same if we exchange Darko for Wilcox... Darko and Wilcox can both handle Haslem on Defense, which would keep them close enough to the paint on help D. Wilcox and Darko are also fast enough (Darko isn't as slow as some suggest either) that they could also handle Battier on defense but they would be pulled further out, which is bad for help D but all 5 of our guys out there are pretty good man defenders... you can't stop Wade or Lebroid but PP, RR, and Green are solid enough defenders to stay with them and make them take jumpers (which they are not that good at unless it's a hot night for them). I think we will give Mia more matchup problems than you guys are giving us. We can match them or make them have to try and match up with us (which Doc will do)... they are vulnerable to the big lineups... I know it was preseason, but NO is an example of what bigs can do to Mia (imagine a team like us with our DEFENSE against them, b/c NO is not a stalwart on D like we are).

1) Chris Wilcox is not stronger than David West.

2) People are underrating Darko because he has proven to be pretty awful at professional basketball for a long stretch of time.  Miami would be thrilled to see him play heavy minutes instead of Bradley, Terry, Lee, Bass, or Sullinger. 

Miami's answer to that lineup is to hope we run our offense through Darko, create easy fast break baskets against a slow lineup after Darko turns the ball over, and laugh all the way to the Finals.  Darko is a fine spot-minute defensive big and I'm glad we have him, but I'd hesitate to suggest that Miami would have problems guarding him.  Any lineup that features Darko is at best our 1,000th best offensive lineup.

Yea because Darko would be our primary offensive option 0.0. Darko is an excellent passer (per Doc and what I saw in the preseason). Darko isn't great on offense by any stretch but he would destroy Haslem or any other big they have (nobody)! Yes, Darko may not be able to keep up with Mia on the break but you talk as if he is the ONLY player out there, discounting the other 4 FAST enough players out there! Who in the lineup I suggested are considered slow besides Darko, I'll wait...

It doesn't matter that Darko is average on offense (when he puts forth effort he can put up points, go to youtube and search it), he can be good for us with no one but his man being able to play him b/c the other guys have to worry about our other 4 shooters/scorers! He is also a good and willing screen setter too (again, Doc)!

Just because you don't like someone there is no need for exaggeration... Darko hasn't lived up to his draft spot but come on man, just stop what you are spewing, he is not awful!


I swear, if I go by your post I would think Darko was out there alone... what, is 1X5 legal in the NBA now?



BTW: I NEVER said Wilcox was stronger than West, I just think Wilcox is more willing to bang inside than West (probably b/c Wilcox can't shoot much), I said West is more finesse (or at least he was last seasons playoffs against the cHeat)!

[cman88]

Honestly, I would let Sullinger use his strength to back Battier down in the Post...

Sullinger is taller/bigger than Battier and I think they could exploit that matchup