I'm not expecting a drastic decline from KG. We'll be in trouble if that occurs. As to the plus/minus numbers; Yes, it's an interesting and important number to look at, but it doesn't tell the whole story. Doc found a very effective substitution pattern for KG that was effective in maximizing his time on the court. Of course, KG gets the credit for his own play, but he was put in those positions to succeed. Rondo, on the other hand, was forced to be out there almost all the time in the playoffs, regardless of who he was on the court with. Obviously, these factors will have an effect on plus/minus numbers.
And, of course, KG does a lot of great things that don't show up on the stat sheet, but, of course, so does Rondo. Your last two paragraphs are just a silly display of "my guy is better than your guy" nonsense.
What does Doc substitution pattern have to do with how each one performs? What position was KG put in to succeed? KG was preserved for the playoffs. Rondo may have played 5 more minutes per game, and although I'm not sure how many of each of their minutes was without each other, I know Rondo benefited more from KG than vice versa.
The Celtics were +8.8 with KG on the court (per 48 minutes) in the playoffs. With him on the bench, they were -23.8. Pretty simple. He had a better offensive rating and a better defensive rating than Rondo throughout the season.
What does Rondo do that doesn't show up on the stat sheets? Overgamble on defense? Highlight-worthy passes? Can't think of anything else really.
[quote author=GreenEnvy
The eye sight and the numbers leave no doubt: Garnett has a greater impact on the game than Rondo does. I cringed every time KG went to the bench and eagerly awaited his return each passing possession.
I would disagree with this. Not that I didn't also cringe when KG went to the bench,
but Rondo had a greater impact than KG. I didn't like Rondo getting subbed by any means, but let's face it, he was the PG for one of the worst offenses in the entire league last year. Nothing to write home about. Lose him and we can't get significantly worse. Missing the defensive anchor of the leagues best defense, and you'll notice how important KG is.
The offense scores the ball well, the biggest problem is a lack of offensive rebounds. If you're looking to blame someone, go with the center that gets fewer Orebs a game than your point guard.You can mix and match 2-15, but everyone should have KG at the top.
The thread's about ranking the players 1-15, but the OP doesn't say anything about what the players are ranked for. If it's most indispensable it's KG, in part for his play but also because he was the only player over 6'8 in the playoffs that was worth putting on the court.
If it's by who's the best player, I'd go with Rondo. [/quote]
Bolded 1. Rondo had a greater impact? Based on what? Because you said so? His individual stats *may* be better than KG's, but the team didn't perform better. +/-, ORtg, DRtg, everything points to KG.
Bolded 2. This is just crazy. The Celtics scored the ball well last year? Whatever you're drinking, I'd like some. They
shot well, mostly because Rondo is surrounded by great shooters, but they were 24th in the league in offensive efficiency (ahead of only Toronto, New Orleans, Cleveland, Washington, Detroit, and Charlotte). So it doesn't matter how many extra possessions the center would have gotten, we still would have done worse with it than 23 other teams. So do you really want your center hanging out for offensive boards that even the best teams fail around 70% of the time? I'd rather he get into position on D.
Bolded 3. Define best. If you want the player with the best statistics, I agree with you. I'd probably take Rondo in a fantasy draft ahead of KG. But if you want a player whose play translates to a more efficient offense and defense, then it's still KG.
I agree that KG is iireplaceable, but you are wrong when you say that we are not significantly worse without Rondo. No Rondo, no championship. Its that simple.
I said our offense can't get much worse, considering it was by far the worst last year of any playoff team, let alone contender. In fact, when Rondo was missed time last year (AB and Moore filled in, now we have even better PG options), it was probably better.
I agree no Rondo, no championship. Very simple. But no KG, no championship. No Pierce, no championship. Maybe even no Green or Terry, no championship.
So what is your point?
This is turning into Rondo vs. KG, which it really shouldn't be. But it's obvious one gets too much credit and the other not enough. Both are great players. Both need to be at the top of their game for us to succeed next April-June. I hope as much as anyone that Rondo's jumper improved as much as it looked like in preseason. I hope Ray leaving leads to a more fluent offense. But I know our D will be great. Historic maybe.
Topic: 1-15. Rank 'em if you got 'em (Read 9468 times)