KG salary question

[heitingas]

2012/13

Shamsports

Kevin Garnett   $11,566,265


ESPN trade machine

Kevin Garnett  $10,542,,636


Which one is correct ?

[Roy H.]

The site I trust agrees with shamsports.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0AodNvAy3ZYZmdGE3NDBqMElRUXh2REN4Q3pZRG1TU1E&gid=4

[lightspeed5]

since when does anyone believe ESPN anymore?

[saltlover]

First off, why are you putting KG into the ESPN trade machine???

Secondly, ESPN is lazy with their salaries, and assumes that everyone gets max raises every year, which is something that Danny rarely if ever does with re-signing his own players.

That said, Shamsports only has one year of salary in for KG, so I'd be curious to see where they get that number from, especially considering it would mean KG would make less than that in a future season, assuming that 3 years/$34 million is accurate, since his average salary over that period is $11,333,333.

Roy, your site has KG's deal being worth $36 mil over 3 years, instead of $34 mil -- was that reported somewhere?  I was out of town for a couple weeks and could have missed it, but everything I've seen says $34 over 3 years.

[Chris]

The site I trust agrees with shamsports.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0AodNvAy3ZYZmdGE3NDBqMElRUXh2REN4Q3pZRG1TU1E&gid=4

Hmmm, I hope they are right, they also have KG's third year as a partial guarantee. 

[saltlover]

The site I trust agrees with shamsports.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0AodNvAy3ZYZmdGE3NDBqMElRUXh2REN4Q3pZRG1TU1E&gid=4

Hmmm, I hope they are right, they also have KG's third year as a partial guarantee.

They also have Brandon Bass's total contract being worth less than originally reported.

[KGs Knee]

Secondly, ESPN is lazy with their salaries, and assumes that everyone gets max raises every year, which is something that Danny rarely if ever does with re-signing his own players.

ESPN may or may not be lazy about how they report player salaries, I have no idea.

The bolded part is absolutely false though.  Danny had re-signed plenty of his own players to max raises.  Pierce and Rondo are the first two that come to mind.

Also, I personally hope ESPN is right.  Means we gave KG the lowest possible salary this season.  Which in turn, makes it just that much easier to pull off a trade later in the season for a legit PF to replace Bass.

[saltlover]

Secondly, ESPN is lazy with their salaries, and assumes that everyone gets max raises every year, which is something that Danny rarely if ever does with re-signing his own players.

ESPN may or may not be lazy about how they report player salaries, I have no idea.

The bolded part is absolutely false though.  Danny had re-signed plenty of his own players to max raises.  Pierce and Rondo are the first two that come to mind.

Also, I personally hope ESPN is right.  Means we gave KG the lowest possible salary this season.  Which in turn, makes it just that much easier to pull off a trade later in the season for a legit PF to replace Bass.

Pierce's salary decreases next year, instead of increases, so that would not be a max raise every year.  Rondo did get one, which is why I said rarely.

Players who did not get one:

Ray (both his resigning and his offer that he declined this year)
Kendrick Perkins (extension he signed)
Tony Allen
Kevin Garnett (I think -- that was a confusing extend and trade, because there were trade bonuses included, but I believe his max raise per year was ~$2.7 mil, and he got $2.4 mil raises.  Furthermore, he was negotiating with a player who wasn't on the Celtics yet, so it's arguably not even re-signing his own player for that deal.)
Glen Davis
Jeff Green's rumored deal is supposedly starting at $9 mil this year and worth $36 mil total

Honestly, Danny doesn't re-sign many of his players.  But when he does, especially recently (I didn't look before 2005, because that was two CBA's ago) he has tended to not give max raises.


NB: I'm basing this off of basketball-reference.com salary data.  It is certainly possible that some of their data is inaccurate, in which case I could be as well.

[KGs Knee]

Secondly, ESPN is lazy with their salaries, and assumes that everyone gets max raises every year, which is something that Danny rarely if ever does with re-signing his own players.

ESPN may or may not be lazy about how they report player salaries, I have no idea.

The bolded part is absolutely false though.  Danny had re-signed plenty of his own players to max raises.  Pierce and Rondo are the first two that come to mind.

Also, I personally hope ESPN is right.  Means we gave KG the lowest possible salary this season.  Which in turn, makes it just that much easier to pull off a trade later in the season for a legit PF to replace Bass.

Pierce's salary decreases next year, instead of increases, so that would not be a max raise every year.  Rondo did get one, which is why I said rarely.

Players who did not get one:

Ray (both his resigning and his offer that he declined this year)
Kendrick Perkins (extension he signed)
Tony Allen
Kevin Garnett (I think -- that was a confusing extend and trade, because there were trade bonuses included, but I believe his max raise per year was ~$2.7 mil, and he got $2.4 mil raises.  Furthermore, he was negotiating with a player who wasn't on the Celtics yet, so it's arguably not even re-signing his own player for that deal.)
Glen Davis
Jeff Green's rumored deal is supposedly starting at $9 mil this year and worth $36 mil total

Honestly, Danny doesn't re-sign many of his players.  But when he does, especially recently (I didn't look before 2005, because that was two CBA's ago) he has tended to not give max raises.

It's definitely a mixed bag, and you're right in that Danny hasn't really re-signed a great many players over the last 5 years.  It definitely isn't "rarely" though.  That part your wrong about.

Pierce was given max raises his first 2 years after the base year, with max decrease the 3rd (and every other contract Pierce has signed has contained max raises).  KG was given just about max raises from the base year of his extension he signed when traded here (it was just that the base year was not a raise over his previous contract, and was instead some other, lower amount).  Rondo was given max raises.  Ray was the only one who did not get raises when re-signing (and I don't see how you can count a contract he didn't sign, as details were sketchy).

I wouldn't consider Green's contract in the discussion, because it isn't yet signed, and may or may not be as reported.

Bass in all likely hood recieved max raises also, although this has not been confirmed one way or another, to date.

[saltlover]

Secondly, ESPN is lazy with their salaries, and assumes that everyone gets max raises every year, which is something that Danny rarely if ever does with re-signing his own players.

ESPN may or may not be lazy about how they report player salaries, I have no idea.

The bolded part is absolutely false though.  Danny had re-signed plenty of his own players to max raises.  Pierce and Rondo are the first two that come to mind.

Also, I personally hope ESPN is right.  Means we gave KG the lowest possible salary this season.  Which in turn, makes it just that much easier to pull off a trade later in the season for a legit PF to replace Bass.

Pierce's salary decreases next year, instead of increases, so that would not be a max raise every year.  Rondo did get one, which is why I said rarely.

Players who did not get one:

Ray (both his resigning and his offer that he declined this year)
Kendrick Perkins (extension he signed)
Tony Allen
Kevin Garnett (I think -- that was a confusing extend and trade, because there were trade bonuses included, but I believe his max raise per year was ~$2.7 mil, and he got $2.4 mil raises.  Furthermore, he was negotiating with a player who wasn't on the Celtics yet, so it's arguably not even re-signing his own player for that deal.)
Glen Davis
Jeff Green's rumored deal is supposedly starting at $9 mil this year and worth $36 mil total

Honestly, Danny doesn't re-sign many of his players.  But when he does, especially recently (I didn't look before 2005, because that was two CBA's ago) he has tended to not give max raises.

It's definitely a mixed bag, and you're right in that Danny hasn't really re-signed a great many players over the last 5 years.  It definitely isn't "rarely" though.  That part your wrong about.

Pierce was given max raises his first 2 years after the base year, with max decrease the 3rd (and every other contract Pierce has signed has contained max raises).  KG was given just about max raises from the base year of his extension he signed when traded here (it was just that the base year was not a raise over his previous contract, and was instead some other, lower amount).  Rondo was given max raises.  Ray was the only one who did not get raises when re-signing (and I don't see how you can count a contract he didn't sign, as details were sketchy).

I wouldn't consider Green's contract in the discussion, because it isn't yet signed, and may or may not be as reported.

Bass in all likely hood recieved max raises also, although this has not been confirmed one way or another, to date.

We can debate on semantics if you like.  I said that ESPN assumes max raises every year (which I've seen them do a lot, including the KG deal) and that Danny doesn't do that.  Pierce definitely doesn't get a max raise every year.  There's one true example where DA gave a max raise, every year, and that's to Rondo.  That's it.  To me, that's rarely.  If you'd like me to say "seldom", fine.  But it is something has occurred less than half the time, and arguably less than 20% of the time.  Accordingly, to assume that KG's deal (and/or Bass's deal) includes max raises is a lazy assumption on the part of ESPN, considering that past evidence indicates that it is unlikely to be the case.

[heitingas]

 Hoopshype have made some updates to KG and Bass.

2012/13
$12,467,532

2013/14
$11,532,468

2014/15
$12,000,000

Brandon Bass is making:

2012/13
$6,500,000

2013/14
$6,750,000

2014/15
$6,950,000


If Green is making 9 million next season we will not be able to use the BAE this year but next.

[CELTICSNUM1]

First off, why are you putting KG into the ESPN trade machine???

Secondly, ESPN is lazy with their salaries, and assumes that everyone gets max raises every year, which is something that Danny rarely if ever does with re-signing his own players.

That said, Shamsports only has one year of salary in for KG, so I'd be curious to see where they get that number from, especially considering it would mean KG would make less than that in a future season, assuming that 3 years/$34 million is accurate, since his average salary over that period is $11,333,333.

Roy, your site has KG's deal being worth $36 mil over 3 years, instead of $34 mil -- was that reported somewhere?  I was out of town for a couple weeks and could have missed it, but everything I've seen says $34 over 3 years.

Is it $34 or $36 million over 3 years?

[pearljammer10]

since when does anyone believe ESPN anymore?

The trade machine has always been shady from a numbers standpoint.

[saltlover]

Hoopshype have made some updates to KG and Bass.

2012/13
$12,467,532

2013/14
$11,532,468

2014/15
$12,000,000

Brandon Bass is making:

2012/13
$6,500,000

2013/14
$6,750,000

2014/15
$6,950,000


If Green is making 9 million next season we will not be able to use the BAE this year but next.

While the KG numbers seem high to me (based on the fact that his contract was reported as $34 mil/3, and this is $36/3), these would be two more examples of DA (smartly) not giving max raises.

Also, assuming that these (and other hoopshype/shamsports numbers) are correct, that would leave the Celtics with no room to waive an injured player to sign a vet at the min, if Green is getting $9 mil this year.  Assuming that Christmas and Joseph make the roster, and Smith gets cut, they have about $50k of room underneath the hard cap.

[colincb]

The site I trust agrees with shamsports.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0AodNvAy3ZYZmdGE3NDBqMElRUXh2REN4Q3pZRG1TU1E&gid=4

Seems this is derivative data from Shamsports and ESPN unfortunately as the author says on the contact tab: "I am not a primary source for salary information. Figures come from ShamSports, ESPN and news reports. What you see here is the way I like to view the data, hopefully you find some use too."