2012 CB Draft Central Division Press Conferences

[RebusRankin]

Jack is now on his fifth team, Toronto and New Orleans, two of the worst teams in the NBA having given up on him. Explain?

A) Toronto and New Orleans have not been known for consistently making quality roster moves.

B) Both Toronto and New Orleans traded a solid rotation guy they didn't need (because they weren't winning crap and you don't keep those guys on if you're not winning crap) for a high-upside guy they thought they might, in Jerryd Bayless and Austin Rivers.

And next year when he's bailing out the Golden State Warriors while Curry recovers and Bogut sits out another year, but goes back to the bench when Curry returns and is eventually traded for Damian Lillard and Luke Babbit, you guys will say the same thing.

He gets traded for the same reason Carl Landry does, because people think he's not quite good enough to start because he doesn't fit their box of a guy who plays a position.

What about another option, he's not good enough?

[StartOrien]

Jack is now on his fifth team, Toronto and New Orleans, two of the worst teams in the NBA having given up on him. Explain?

A) Toronto and New Orleans have not been known for consistently making quality roster moves.

B) Both Toronto and New Orleans traded a solid rotation guy they didn't need (because they weren't winning crap and you don't keep those guys on if you're not winning crap) for a high-upside guy they thought they might, in Jerryd Bayless and Austin Rivers.

And next year when he's bailing out the Golden State Warriors while Curry recovers and Bogut sits out another year, but goes back to the bench when Curry returns and is eventually traded for Damian Lillard and Luke Babbit, you guys will say the same thing.

He gets traded for the same reason Carl Landry does, because people think he's not quite good enough to start because he doesn't fit their box of a guy who plays a position.

What about another option, he's not good enough?

I think he's an effective role player, and these bottom of the barrel teams have no use for him. He means a lot more to other teams, so in turn they get value in moving him.

Also known as, the argument me and KC presented to the teams who aren't going to make the playoffs when we wanted to gift them 2 lottery picks for a veteran 2 guard

[KCattheStripe]

Jack is now on his fifth team, Toronto and New Orleans, two of the worst teams in the NBA having given up on him. Explain?

A) Toronto and New Orleans have not been known for consistently making quality roster moves.

B) Both Toronto and New Orleans traded a solid rotation guy they didn't need (because they weren't winning crap and you don't keep those guys on if you're not winning crap) for a high-upside guy they thought they might, in Jerryd Bayless and Austin Rivers.

And next year when he's bailing out the Golden State Warriors while Curry recovers and Bogut sits out another year, but goes back to the bench when Curry returns and is eventually traded for Damian Lillard and Luke Babbit, you guys will say the same thing.

He gets traded for the same reason Carl Landry does, because people think he's not quite good enough to start because he doesn't fit their box of a guy who plays a position.

What about another option, he's not good enough?

I think he's an effective role player, and these bottom of the barrel teams have no use for him. He means a lot more to other teams, so in turn they get value in moving him.

Also known as, the argument me and KC presented to the teams who aren't going to make the playoffs when we wanted to gift them 2 lottery picks for a veteran 2 guard

Why does no one listen to us when we're absolutely correct and self-serving at the same time?

[StartOrien]

Jack is now on his fifth team, Toronto and New Orleans, two of the worst teams in the NBA having given up on him. Explain?

A) Toronto and New Orleans have not been known for consistently making quality roster moves.

B) Both Toronto and New Orleans traded a solid rotation guy they didn't need (because they weren't winning crap and you don't keep those guys on if you're not winning crap) for a high-upside guy they thought they might, in Jerryd Bayless and Austin Rivers.

And next year when he's bailing out the Golden State Warriors while Curry recovers and Bogut sits out another year, but goes back to the bench when Curry returns and is eventually traded for Damian Lillard and Luke Babbit, you guys will say the same thing.

He gets traded for the same reason Carl Landry does, because people think he's not quite good enough to start because he doesn't fit their box of a guy who plays a position.

What about another option, he's not good enough?

I think he's an effective role player, and these bottom of the barrel teams have no use for him. He means a lot more to other teams, so in turn they get value in moving him.

Also known as, the argument me and KC presented to the teams who aren't going to make the playoffs when we wanted to gift them 2 lottery picks for a veteran 2 guard

Why does no one listen to us when we're absolutely correct and self-serving at the same time?

You either die a super hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villain

[Donoghus]

My favorite division. Very solid at the top.  I have 3 playoff teams here. 

1) Chicago
2) Detroit
3) Indiana
4) Cleveland

Chicago & Detroit are very, very close.  I give the slight node to Chicago based on their core three.  I like Indiana's setup a lot.  I think the pieces there are very complementary and will only get better in future.  Cleveland dug themselves out a bit but still far behind.  I did a lot of headscratching regarding their moves throughout the draft.

[Kane3387]

I feel like I haven't mentioned this enough, so let me say this now:

The rumors of Dwyane Wade's demise have been greatly exaggerated.

I really don't think you can argue this. You can argue that he's still a highly effective player and will continue to be so, but I don't think you can honestly say that he's maintained the level of play he had in say 06'. He's just nearly as good as he once was.

Agreed.  Wade fell off last year.  The question for me is whether it's a permanent drop off, or was injury related.

The thing I haven't gotten with Wade is why the last couple of years he hasn't added to his game more. He's still a streaky shooter and poor from three.

You would think that he would figure out that as he gets older his body can't continue to take the hard falls to the floor and the other strain that's out on it from attacking the basket. Plus guys just start to slow down a bit athletically after 30.

I always thought he would go the Jordan and Kobe route and develop more of a post game and utilize that fade away. Wade is still top ten, but in real life I think the Heat's window is smaller then people think it is as presently constructed.

[indeedproceed]

My favorite division. Very solid at the top.  I have 3 playoff teams here. 

1) Chicago
2) Detroit
3) Indiana
4) Cleveland

Chicago & Detroit are very, very close.  I give the slight node to Chicago based on their core three.  I like Indiana's setup a lot.  I think the pieces there are very complementary and will only get better in future.  Cleveland dug themselves out a bit but still far behind.  I did a lot of headscratching regarding their moves throughout the draft.

This I also agree with. Press conferences rarely change my snap judgements on a team once the rosters get released, but Detroit really impressed me today. Before Boston blew it up I would've ranked the conference Chicago, Boston, Detroit, but now even if Boston hadn't blown up the team, I think Detroit passes them. I think Detroit and Boston are a lot closer than I realized, and I always thought Detroit was pretty good.

I keep on looking at them through the Miami/Clippers lense. I look at how far CP3 took a pretty unchanged Clippers Roster, and look at how far improved they are at every position besides Griffin, and then I look at how similar Ily and Griffin kind of are; both limited offensive players with one very good and useful talent, enthusiastic but unskilled defensive players, good rebounders...not saying they're equals or anything, but an interesting line of thought.

Do the same with Chicago as Miami, with vastly improved players at the 1 and 5, better depth, but a significant step down from James to Pierce...

I think they're both 60+ win teams.

Indiana I don't think will be a particularly high seed in the regular season, but good luck if you see them in the playoffs. Really not a team I'd want to see first round.

[Kane3387]

Plus Chicago is going to be counting on the likes of Jack, Thad Young, and Haywood to play a lot of minutes so Pierce, Wade, and Bosh aren't burned out.

Right. That's going to happen.

Please tell me why that's wrong.

Not saying it's wrong. I'm saying I think those guys getting more minutes hurts your team in regards to finishing ahead of Lucky. You're sacrificing talent for preservation. I agree that you do that with older players though.

Again this all about the regular season. When the playoffs start and we see the match ups things may change entirely.

Is Lucky's strategy to run his starters into the ground?  Chris Paul averaged 36 minutes last year.  Nene averaged around 30.  33 each for Granger and Matthews.  Ilyasova averaged 28 minutes.

Aren't both of those teams going to be playing their benches a lot?

Yes and his is better. If IP played the starters more then it makes up for the differences in the benches. Since they're both pretty equal i like Lucky a little more b/c I also like his starters a little more.

I think after Jack and Young is goes downhill bad for IP and I am not a big Jack fan. Grievous Vasquez was the other pg for NO and Eric Gordon was out all year. Some games it seemed like Jack was their only non D-Leaguer and he has never really impressed me. Not a good shooter and typically it takes him as many shots to score the same amount of points.
He doesn't compliment Wade at all imo.

For Lucky. I like Hill's energy and Martin's aggressiveness. I'm a Ridnour and Budinger fan. too. Young is the best Bench player between the two teams, but after that I think Lucky has the next 4 out of 5.

We have vastly different views of these players, and I don't know how yours is supportable other than, "I'm just not a big ___ fan."

But whatever, you're one guy who isn't a fan of the squad. If anyone wants to learn more about any of my players, I'll be happy to show you some reading materials.

Dude. Not a fan of the squad only because I said it wasn't number one in the regular season? I said it was a playoff team and likely better then any of your division rivals in a 7 game series. I think that shows respect.

Come with the material like Roy did in the other thread. I feel I have backed up my opinions with evidence as to why I am not a huge fan of a player. Like Jack.

For the most part he's a bad shooter and he put up numbers on basically a D-League team where he was the main option. It's a totally different environment and he will have to play off ball all the time.

I'm not sleeping on a Dwyane Wade led team. I like the CP3 led team more for the regular season a little better.

You haven't said 'jack' about Jarret Jack (meant as a pun), you said his teammates were terrible and Greivis Vasquez was the other point guard on his team, and that he couldn't shoot:

15th best pick and roll ball-handler in the league (308 attempts)

12th best among starting point guards for true shooting %

Able to effectively defend 2 positions, but is unique because of his prowess against shooting guards (and is why he's so useful for me):

PER as PG: 17.6
Opp PER as PG: 16.7

PER as SG: 19.5
OppPER as SG: 7.3

He's adequate as a starting PG at defending other 1's, but elite as a 2. And his numbers from the previous season (though not as pronounced) are similar when he played the exact same role I'm asking of him.

And as to why is he a good fit next to Wade? First and foremost because he's a great to elite fit next to Holiday. Jack's shooting is average, true enough, but I love him for my team because he's a high-level backup PG, and a high-level backup SG. He's tough, bull-headed like Wade, is good at scoring in traffic, and is a good facilitator.

Would've been perfect on the Celtics. Real life and make-believe.

That's Jarret Jack.

Wanna do SPlitter? 5th best in the NBA at being the 'roll' part of the equation? Amazing finisher, 5th among all players in TS%? 13th among centers in estimated wins added?

Brendan Haywood? Anchored the 8th best defensive team in the NBA in Dallas this past season, voted 5th best defensive center by The Basketball Prospectus.

Chandler Parsons? After the allstar break averaged 11.5 points, 4.7 rebounds, 2.5 assists and shot 47%, 13.33 PER and 2.3 estimated Wins added, puts him ahead of guys like Delfino, and right there with Tayshaun Prince. Plus, guy was a rookie, he's gonna get better next year. How is he not helping my team backing up Paul Pierce, he's likely an as good or better option there than Jeff Green will be next season, in reality.

Do I need to go on?   

(I really hope I don't need to go on, I'm leaving work and my desktop behind. This is nearly impossible on a phone)

Here is some Jack on Jack.

Jarrett Jack is yet another guy with a usage over 20  along with Holiday, Pierce, and Wade. This was his best year, but also the year where he had the ball in his hands the most. Seems like he will play off ball quite a bit on your team.

His defensive rating is 108. Here is what Hollinger said:

+ Combo guard who has become league's leading practitioner of "rip" move.

Too bad that move isn't getting you to the line anymore.

+ Good handle, can get to rim, but an average athlete and middling outside shooter.

+ Strong but lacks lateral quickness; struggles vs. quick guards but can check 2s

.

Sounds right in your assessment about him playing the two better.

Defensively, Jack's 82games.com page tells the story: Opposing point guards averaged a 17.0 PER against him, but shooting guards only a 13.4. While he's a decent backup point guard who rarely turns the ball over, his troubles defending the position make him more effective overall when he shares the backcourt with Chris Paul.

He's not that good of a defender either. 

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/player/hollinger/_/id/2768/jarrett-jack

[indeedproceed]

I think the thing people need to do with Wade is look at the regular season. I'll get into this more later, but even with Lebron and Bosh he was the best shooting guard in the game, and arguably the best guard in the NBA. You could argue Paul over him, but I'd need to look at the stats. Id feel better about building a team around Paul, because he makes your guys better, but i dont know if that means Paul had the better regular season. Wade's playoffs weren't great, but I think that was a clear indicator of an injury, not of a rapid decline.

And Wade did add something to his game from Jordan over the last couple of years. Likely the best post player among guards in the NBA.

[indeedproceed]

Kane have you actually looked at what usage is among point guards? Holiday ranks near the bottom.

And, of I'm not mistaken, Jack defended 1s better this season, and he outpaced Hollinger's projections for him with his effiCency and his offense. The guy had like a 18 PER, and managed to be the best player on his team for the majority of the year.

What more do you want out of my backup point guard and shooting guard?

[indeedproceed]

Cleve:

I've asked it like 3 times, and i'm about to make it 4...

Why did you decide ultimately that Carmelo could not be used as a starting power-forward next to Bogut?

Why is starting Melo at the 3 next to Ty Thomas a better option than Melo at the 4 next to Brandon Roy, TMac, or Perry Jones?

I offered Pierce and Young for Melo and Ty Thomas (then thought better of it) with just that thought in mind.

Holiday
Wade
Parsons
Melo
Bosh

As a starting unit. Defensively it'd be a tough sell, but offensively it's gotta be the best in the league.

[Roy H.]

Cleve:

I've asked it like 3 times, and i'm about to make it 4...

Why did you decide ultimately that Carmelo could not be used as a starting power-forward next to Bogut?

Why is starting Melo at the 3 next to Ty Thomas a better option than Melo at the 4 next to Brandon Roy, TMac, or Perry Jones?

I offered Pierce and Young for Melo and Ty Thomas (then thought better of it) with just that thought in mind.

Holiday
Wade
Parsons
Melo
Bosh

As a starting unit. Defensively it'd be a tough sell, but offensively it's gotta be the best in the league.

Man that would have been terrible for you.  Too bad you didn't pull the trigger.

[Who]

Cleve:

I've asked it like 3 times, and i'm about to make it 4...

Why did you decide ultimately that Carmelo could not be used as a starting power-forward next to Bogut?

Why is starting Melo at the 3 next to Ty Thomas a better option than Melo at the 4 next to Brandon Roy, TMac, or Perry Jones?

I offered Pierce and Young for Melo and Ty Thomas (then thought better of it) with just that thought in mind.

Holiday
Wade
Parsons
Melo
Bosh

As a starting unit. Defensively it'd be a tough sell, but offensively it's gotta be the best in the league.

How is that any different than the lineup you can trot out there with Pierce?

It's not like teams are going to be forced to put their PF on Melo when Parsons is on the court.

[indeedproceed]

Cleve:

I've asked it like 3 times, and i'm about to make it 4...

Why did you decide ultimately that Carmelo could not be used as a starting power-forward next to Bogut?

Why is starting Melo at the 3 next to Ty Thomas a better option than Melo at the 4 next to Brandon Roy, TMac, or Perry Jones?

I offered Pierce and Young for Melo and Ty Thomas (then thought better of it) with just that thought in mind.

Holiday
Wade
Parsons
Melo
Bosh

As a starting unit. Defensively it'd be a tough sell, but offensively it's gotta be the best in the league.

Man that would have been terrible for you.  Too bad you didn't pull the trigger.

It was a pretty funny exchange.

Me: offer
Yoki: sorry, no
Me: actually I don't like it either. But I think you missed a huge opportunity here.
Yoki: that all makes sense, but no
Me: no, you don't understand, I'm not reoffering it, I'm telling you why you should've taken it.
Yoki: I like Melo.

There were actually a few of those trades where someone saved me by not taking my persistent offers. I offered 3.1, 4.1, 7 for Boogie Cousins a 5th and a 10th to pair with Wade and when I had him Duncan. Offered Young/Jack for Ellis/Brewer.

Lotta near misses because someone didnt wanna pull the trigger at the gun I offered them trained at my head. Holiday/Bosh for Billups/Bynum...

[indeedproceed]

Cleve:

I've asked it like 3 times, and i'm about to make it 4...

Why did you decide ultimately that Carmelo could not be used as a starting power-forward next to Bogut?

Why is starting Melo at the 3 next to Ty Thomas a better option than Melo at the 4 next to Brandon Roy, TMac, or Perry Jones?

I offered Pierce and Young for Melo and Ty Thomas (then thought better of it) with just that thought in mind.

Holiday
Wade
Parsons
Melo
Bosh

As a starting unit. Defensively it'd be a tough sell, but offensively it's gotta be the best in the league.

How is that any different than the lineup you can trot out there with Pierce?

It's not like teams are going to be forced to put their PF on Melo when Parsons is on the court.

Well I said I took it back after thinking on it...admittedly I hadn't considered that...