is being a "Celtic" requesting a trade ?

[Interceptor]

I think it's a fair point when people question Ray's "loyalty", though.

Agreed, though maybe not for the reason that you meant. Pierce was loyal to the organization, by giving them a choice and a chance. No such parallel for Allen, his offer was an insult.

[rayallen1934]

I think it's a fair point when people question Ray's "loyalty", though.

Agreed, though maybe not for the reason that you meant. Pierce was loyal to the organization, by giving them a choice and a chance. No such parallel for Allen, his offer was an insult.

I guess calling him and telling him he got traded, but then calling him back and telling no you didnt, sorry your still here , is not an insult.

Good job in assessing your statement.

[Interceptor]

I guess calling him and telling him he got traded, but then calling him back and telling no you didnt, sorry your still here , is not an insult.

Good job in assessing your statement.

Insult is all about intention. Doc's the one who made the call, and he didn't mean to insult anyone. Doc wanted Ray on the team.

Pierce has been on the block before. He jokes about it.

[2dark]

I think it's a fair point when people question Ray's "loyalty", though.

Agreed, though maybe not for the reason that you meant. Pierce was loyal to the organization, by giving them a choice and a chance. No such parallel for Allen, his offer was an insult.

It wasn t an insult, it was "go fish" offer.
I was in a work enviroment I helped build with my own hands, but it became something I didn't fit in anymore. When I told em I m probably gone they asked what can they do to keep me. Price for me suffering in place I thought was bad for me was exactly what Ray asked, 3x more than I got in competing firm.

[Eja117]

When Pierce requested a trade in 2007, either that or bring some talent to Boston. Is that being a "Celtic" ?

Or is that the business side?

The team can benefit from a trade, so communicating with the team openly and honestly about mutual needs and plans is definitely being a Celtic, which is something Ray isn't any more, and I'm not so sure ever was

[Rainmaker]

When Pierce requested a trade in 2007, either that or bring some talent to Boston. Is that being a "Celtic" ?

Or is that the business side?

Lower's newspaper. Raises eyebrows. Shakes head. Raises the newspaper.

Did Ray request a trade that we are unaware of?
Because we brought some talent in.

[Interceptor]

Lower's newspaper. Raises eyebrows. Shakes head. Raises the newspaper.

Did Ray request a trade that we are unaware of?
Because we brought some talent in.

Donating this pic to your post:

[Roy H.]

When Pierce requested a trade in 2007, either that or bring some talent to Boston. Is that being a "Celtic" ?

Or is that the business side?

The team can benefit from a trade, so communicating with the team openly and honestly about mutual needs and plans is definitely being a Celtic, which is something Ray isn't any more, and I'm not so sure ever was

By publicly threatening to demand a trade, what did that do to his trade value?  Do you think that value goes up or down if a player publicly gripes?

I don't really blame Pierce, but I think it's funny to hear people defend his threatened trade demand like he was somehow trying to help the Celtics.

[Interceptor]

By publicly threatening to demand a trade, what did that do to his trade value?  Do you think that value goes up or down if a player publicly gripes?

What the 2012 offseason has taught me about this, is that making no secret about demanding a trade, and refusing to sign an extension, means that people want to blow up their entire teams for the right to rent you for one year.

[vinnie]

I wish someone would start a Ray Allen blog/forum for these kinds of deep discussions -- 

[Eja117]

When Pierce requested a trade in 2007, either that or bring some talent to Boston. Is that being a "Celtic" ?

Or is that the business side?

The team can benefit from a trade, so communicating with the team openly and honestly about mutual needs and plans is definitely being a Celtic, which is something Ray isn't any more, and I'm not so sure ever was

By publicly threatening to demand a trade, what did that do to his trade value?  Do you think that value goes up or down if a player publicly gripes?

I don't really blame Pierce, but I think it's funny to hear people defend his threatened trade demand like he was somehow trying to help the Celtics.

Well naturally it leads teams to think they should offer less than half what he could get from the Celtics, right?

[Sketch5]

Peirce said build a good team quick that can win a title, or get me to one that has the same chance. He new the window of oppertunity was closing and didn't want to have to go threw an other rebuild. Can't blame him for that.

You heard rumors of it, but never a Howard or Kobe rants, and crying about it. Classy.

Yeah Ray had a right to be annoyed that he got traded, but to be fare to DA the team was tanking, they were in year 5 of the 3 year plan and they had a chance at a younger more well round player. As a GM you pull that trigger.

But it didn't happen. Ray got moved to the bench and didn't like it. Wanted the ball more, but Doc wanted Rondo to have it more to make plays. Makes senses, Ray was dribbling off his feet half the time, why would you want him handling the ball? He didn't like that any more.

The Celtics were better with AB in the starting line up and Allen coming off the bench. Gave them more scoring off the bench(which showed in the playoffs hurt a lot and cost them game 7). KG moves to the C spot, he hates it, but the guy said he'd run threw a brick wall for Doc, and he did. Oh and when Ray was being mentioned at trade time, so was KG for Smith, but KG took on the new roll and came back for an other run.

End of season, getting KG was key, so they went at him first, Allen was hurt. They offered Allen 2 years 12 Mil(if believe?) and a no trade for what they did to him in years past. But know, he wants more. More of a roll, 3 years after ankle surgery, 28 mill? I can't blame Boston for not taking that on.

 So Allen ran off to Miami. Now if he wanted gone, fine. But he could have gone to the Clippers,Bulls,Knicks, and I think people would have accepted that, more of a roll on those teams, would start as well. But going to Miami was a purpose slap in the face. Can't argue with that. Other players in the league called him out for it, thats pretty bad.

Thats why what PP did had more class in what he did, wanted to stay if they could build a team around him, but if they were going to rebuild get players that would help them, while he goes to a team that he might have a chance to win with.

Allen had NO intention of coming back. With a third year demand, and meeting with Miami he wanted out.

Now while Allen was hear i loved what he did on the most part, loved how he played threw the ankles in the playoffs, but going to Miami was just about as bad as going to the Lakers, maybe worse because we have to see him 4 times in the reg season and and other 4 min in the playoffs.

rayallen1934
    I get you love for Allen,  but the dude made his own bed. Stop throwing our current players under the bus because your sad your favorite player is no longer here. Thats NOT being a Celtic. We embrace who is hear, and crap on whos not. And since Allen is no longer here...

 

 

[celtsfan84]

Peirce said build a good team quick that can win a title, or get me to one that has the same chance. He new the window of oppertunity was closing and didn't want to have to go threw an other rebuild. Can't blame him for that.

You heard rumors of it, but never a Howard or Kobe rants, and crying about it. Classy.

Yeah Ray had a right to be annoyed that he got traded, but to be fare to DA the team was tanking, they were in year 5 of the 3 year plan and they had a chance at a younger more well round player. As a GM you pull that trigger.

But it didn't happen. Ray got moved to the bench and didn't like it. Wanted the ball more, but Doc wanted Rondo to have it more to make plays. Makes senses, Ray was dribbling off his feet half the time, why would you want him handling the ball? He didn't like that any more.

The Celtics were better with AB in the starting line up and Allen coming off the bench. Gave them more scoring off the bench(which showed in the playoffs hurt a lot and cost them game 7). KG moves to the C spot, he hates it, but the guy said he'd run threw a brick wall for Doc, and he did. Oh and when Ray was being mentioned at trade time, so was KG for Smith, but KG took on the new roll and came back for an other run.

End of season, getting KG was key, so they went at him first, Allen was hurt. They offered Allen 2 years 12 Mil(if believe?) and a no trade for what they did to him in years past. But know, he wants more. More of a roll, 3 years after ankle surgery, 28 mill? I can't blame Boston for not taking that on.

 So Allen ran off to Miami. Now if he wanted gone, fine. But he could have gone to the Clippers,Bulls,Knicks, and I think people would have accepted that, more of a roll on those teams, would start as well. But going to Miami was a purpose slap in the face. Can't argue with that. Other players in the league called him out for it, thats pretty bad.

Thats why what PP did had more class in what he did, wanted to stay if they could build a team around him, but if they were going to rebuild get players that would help them, while he goes to a team that he might have a chance to win with.

Allen had NO intention of coming back. With a third year demand, and meeting with Miami he wanted out.

Now while Allen was hear i loved what he did on the most part, loved how he played threw the ankles in the playoffs, but going to Miami was just about as bad as going to the Lakers, maybe worse because we have to see him 4 times in the reg season and and other 4 min in the playoffs.

rayallen1934
    I get you love for Allen,  but the dude made his own bed. Stop throwing our current players under the bus because your sad your favorite player is no longer here. Thats NOT being a Celtic. We embrace who is hear, and crap on whos not. And since Allen is no longer here...

 

 

Here's the problem for Ainge: According to a league executive, Paul Pierce has finally told team management that unless the Celtics come out of this week with a talented veteran co-star for him, they should expect him to make a public declaration soon after Thursday's draft that he wants a trade.

From Woj in 2007.  Pierce very well would've went public and diminished his trade value / hurt the Celtics had Ainge not acquired KG and Allen.  And regardless, public demand or not, other GMs certainly would've known that Pierce wanted out.

[Mr October]

there are also 2 VERY different eras in play.

Pre 2007, the Celtics were a joke. Pierce had to play through a couple of rebuilds and messy leadership - Pitino/Wallace, followed by Ainge/Doc having a couple of bumpy years.

Post 2007, the Celtics are title contenders year in, year out. Doc and Danny have become some of the best in the business. The Celtics organization is admired by players, coaches, casual fans, etc.

The trade request and Ray's gripes on his way out are different. Nonetheless, Pierce and Ray were both looking out for number one. Pierce in his 20s was a very selfish player, and not the epitome of what a Celtic is. That has changed as he has matured. We've come along way since 2005.

Meanwhile Ray is older, wiser, presumed to be classier, and yet here we are with Ray unable to take a role that is best for the team. I don't blame Ray for wanting to leave. His ego was hurt. Lets just not make him out to be a victim, or claim that he still has starter skills.

[2short]

Paul went about the trade thing very well like I'd expect any good team player to do (see dwight howard for the EXACT OPPOSITE)
as yes paul has really matured from his early days as a celtic, he butted heads with doc quite a bit but that and paul understanding what it takes to be a complete player has changed paul from a vince carter scoring guy to a hall of famer

Celtic by definition in old fart encyclopedia

CELTIC see photo Bill Russell, John Havlicheck, Dave Cowens, Larry Bird
anyone remember Cowens wanting out and getting his trade?