Final 2 spots poll

[bfrombleacher]

http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=59084.0    Original thread for reference and if mods want to merge the threads (don't know if possible).


Edit: Haha still very undecided poll at this point. If I missed anyone tell me and I'll add it asap (probably tomorrow).


Man. I can't decide.

For me, it's just the one spot because I'm very convinced we should get Kris Joseph. He is a fantastic prospect from the looks of it (goes hard, plays smart, plays strong, plays D). Dude could be a starter.

So who?

With Dionte Christmas we could grow our own Pietrus...but better. If we don't use one of our spots on him he's going to be taken away.

There are options. We could give the BAE to Pietrus. We could sign Sasha or Marquis D to vet mins. There are options on the market like Carlos Delfino.

But like a fellow cb'er has pointed out, having Courtney Lee at the 3 isn't the worst.

Having extra depth at two of the more important jobs - center and ball-handler - may also benefit us. (Dooling and AB as our primary ball-handlers? Really?)

Carlos Delfino and MD can also make plays with the ball.

I'm torn. So far I have:

1. Marquis Daniels or Birdman Andersen. MD wants to play with us, cheap, extremely versatile, chemistry, ball handler...need I say more? Birdman would be awesome for the vet min. Could take a huge load off KG's shoulders.  

2. Christmas or Delfino. For Christmas - I have faith in KJ43 and I'm actually okay with Lee at the 3...plus I just love a good Cinderella story. But with Delfino we add another dimension to our bench with a 3 point shooter and somewhat of a ballhandler.

3. Random big or Pietrus. I don't want to spend too much on Pietrus.    Wilcox, Bass (full time small ball?) and Collins is quite a bit of depth if KG needs rest...plus Fab Melo might be better than Hollins right now.

4. Jamar Smith - Wouldn't be the worst signing...but would be a little disappointed depending on his training camp performance.

I moved Christmas down to option 2 as I typed the darn thing. It's such a hard choice to make.

Leaning towards Birdman though since Dooling can handle the ball and pressure okay but I love MD a lot and small ball this year doesn't seem too bad...and the flexing is just awesome...

So torn.

[Chris]

I feel pretty confident it will be Joseph and Christmas.  But I am not so sure Christmas will make it through December.  He will probably be the annual cut the day before his contract is guaranteed, so they can open up a roster spot.

[the_Bird]

I'm skeptical about Lee at the 3.  I understand people will disagree with that.  He's a good defender and he's got decent size for a SG, but he's still only 200#s and he's hardly played SF at all up to this point in his career.  I don't mind occasionally putting him out there (with Rondo and Bradley) in a 3-guard lineup, but in situations that are to our favor - not being *forced* to run a three-guard lineup due to injuries.  

As to the need/desire for another ballhandler; keep in mind that Rondo missed 14 games last year (including his suspension in the playoffs); we went 9-5 in those games.  JET's a much better backup PG than most of the guys we've trotted out there in the past (we won a title with Eddie House as the backup 2, and Eddie could barely bring the ball upcourt!).  Having Pierce around helps, too - when asked to play point-forward, he's pretty [dang] good at that.  

Chris Anderson would be interesting because he would likely have a tangible impact at the 5, but if you can't get him I'd go with a depth-SF (Delfino would be ideal, but probably unrealistic).  

EDIT: As to Joseph/Christmas; let 'em fight it out.  Joseph would seem to have the edge because he was Danny's draft pick, but if Christmas wasn't told he was going to be given a legit shot to win a spot, he'd be lacing up his sneakers in Europe right now.

[Jon]

I'm skeptical about Lee at the 3.  I understand people will disagree with that.  He's a good defender and he's got decent size for a SG, but he's still only 200#s and he's hardly played SF at all up to this point in his career.  I don't mind occasionally putting him out there (with Rondo and Bradley) in a 3-guard lineup, but in situations that are to our favor - not being *forced* to run a three-guard lineup due to injuries.  

As to the need/desire for another ballhandler; keep in mind that Rondo missed 14 games last year (including his suspension in the playoffs); we went 9-5 in those games.  JET's a much better backup PG than most of the guys we've trotted out there in the past (we won a title with Eddie House as the backup 2, and Eddie could barely bring the ball upcourt!).  Having Pierce around helps, too - when asked to play point-forward, he's pretty [dang] good at that.  

Chris Anderson would be interesting because he would likely have a tangible impact at the 5, but if you can't get him I'd go with a depth-SF (Delfino would be ideal, but probably unrealistic).  

EDIT: As to Joseph/Christmas; let 'em fight it out.  Joseph would seem to have the edge because he was Danny's draft pick, but if Christmas wasn't told he was going to be given a legit shot to win a spot, he'd be lacing up his sneakers in Europe right now.

Well, playing Lee at the 3 isn't ideal, but what's the alternative once Bradley comes back?  Rondo averages 37 mpg, Terry averages 31, Lee averages 30, and during Bradley's surge last year, he averaged better than 30.  That's about 130 minutes where 96 minutes are available. 

Rondo isn't playing less than 34 mpg, and in reality, it'll probably be a few minutes more.  At best that leave 62 minutes to be split between Lee, Bradley, and Terry, which leaves either each at a shade over 20 mpg or means that two of them get closer to their real minutes and one barely plays. 

Swinging Lee to the 3 for 5-10 mpg (and consequently swinging Green to 5-10 minutes more pg at the 4) is really the only way to create more minutes. 

Personally, I am a fan of this because it finds a way to get our most talented players more minutes.  Also, if Doc plays his rotations correctly, he can have Lee play the 3 when the opponent's backup 3 is in the game.  And there aren't many backup 3s in the league who are going to make Courtney Lee pay for being slightly undersized. 

[the_Bird]

Again, that's all well and good based on the in-game situations.  The concern I have is when Pierce (soon to be 35, and always dealing with nagging injuries) has to sit out a few games, when we're going to be forced to play Lee at the 3 regardless of who he's matched up against.  If Miami's going with LeBron and Rashard Lewis at the forwards, who does Lee defend? 

Obviously, Green would be getting the bulk of those SF minutes, but he can't play all 48. 

I'd rather have some options on the bench.  Even a guy like Sasha was able to come in and give us some decent defense at the SF last year.  We don't really have a guy like that on the bench right now.  I just see that as being a bigger need than another PG, or *another* big man (other than Chris Anderson, who would be an interesting signing because he'd immediately become a rotation player). 

[Prof. Clutch]

I feel pretty confident it will be Joseph and Christmas.  But I am not so sure Christmas will make it through December.  He will probably be the annual cut the day before his contract is guaranteed, so they can open up a roster spot.

These were my guesses/votes too. 

Also regarding the poll, I don't think Sasha is an option since he went to Portland as part of the sign and trade deal that brought us Courtney Lee.  Even if he is cut we can't sign him for another year I believe.

[Jon]

Again, that's all well and good based on the in-game situations.  The concern I have is when Pierce (soon to be 35, and always dealing with nagging injuries) has to sit out a few games, when we're going to be forced to play Lee at the 3 regardless of who he's matched up against.  If Miami's going with LeBron and Rashard Lewis at the forwards, who does Lee defend? 

Obviously, Green would be getting the bulk of those SF minutes, but he can't play all 48. 

I'd rather have some options on the bench.  Even a guy like Sasha was able to come in and give us some decent defense at the SF last year.  We don't really have a guy like that on the bench right now.  I just see that as being a bigger need than another PG, or *another* big man (other than Chris Anderson, who would be an interesting signing because he'd immediately become a rotation player). 

I agree.  I'd prefer Daniels over any of the young guys.  I like the experience and versatility he brings. 

That said, even if Pierce went down, assuming that Bradley is back when this occurs, I think Doc gives Green 30+ minutes and Lee most, if not all, of the rest of the minutes. 

So yes, I like the idea of vet to give us extra security, but unless the vet is darn good (and it's quite unlikely), we're going to be better off playing Lee out of position as the backup 3. 

[xmuscularghandix]

Again, that's all well and good based on the in-game situations.  The concern I have is when Pierce (soon to be 35, and always dealing with nagging injuries) has to sit out a few games, when we're going to be forced to play Lee at the 3 regardless of who he's matched up against.  If Miami's going with LeBron and Rashard Lewis at the forwards, who does Lee defend? 

Obviously, Green would be getting the bulk of those SF minutes, but he can't play all 48. 

I'd rather have some options on the bench.  Even a guy like Sasha was able to come in and give us some decent defense at the SF last year.  We don't really have a guy like that on the bench right now.  I just see that as being a bigger need than another PG, or *another* big man (other than Chris Anderson, who would be an interesting signing because he'd immediately become a rotation player). 

I agree.  I'd prefer Daniels over any of the young guys.  I like the experience and versatility he brings. 

That said, even if Pierce went down, assuming that Bradley is back when this occurs, I think Doc gives Green 30+ minutes and Lee most, if not all, of the rest of the minutes. 

So yes, I like the idea of vet to give us extra security, but unless the vet is darn good (and it's quite unlikely), we're going to be better off playing Lee out of position as the backup 3. 

Marquis brings experience and versatility? I thought he brought injuries and inconsistency... if he wants to hang out with the team and be their friend he can, but I'd prefer the Celtics don't pay for him to hang out and do nothing.

[Q_FBE]

I picked Kenyon Martin, a veteran PF and Micheal Pietrus, a veteran SF. Tough choices up there..... I really had to think but I went with veterans because Doc is a veterans coach.

[Jon]

Again, that's all well and good based on the in-game situations.  The concern I have is when Pierce (soon to be 35, and always dealing with nagging injuries) has to sit out a few games, when we're going to be forced to play Lee at the 3 regardless of who he's matched up against.  If Miami's going with LeBron and Rashard Lewis at the forwards, who does Lee defend? 

Obviously, Green would be getting the bulk of those SF minutes, but he can't play all 48. 

I'd rather have some options on the bench.  Even a guy like Sasha was able to come in and give us some decent defense at the SF last year.  We don't really have a guy like that on the bench right now.  I just see that as being a bigger need than another PG, or *another* big man (other than Chris Anderson, who would be an interesting signing because he'd immediately become a rotation player). 

I agree.  I'd prefer Daniels over any of the young guys.  I like the experience and versatility he brings. 

That said, even if Pierce went down, assuming that Bradley is back when this occurs, I think Doc gives Green 30+ minutes and Lee most, if not all, of the rest of the minutes. 

So yes, I like the idea of vet to give us extra security, but unless the vet is darn good (and it's quite unlikely), we're going to be better off playing Lee out of position as the backup 3. 

Marquis brings experience and versatility? I thought he brought injuries and inconsistency... if he wants to hang out with the team and be their friend he can, but I'd prefer the Celtics don't pay for him to hang out and do nothing.

Marquis plays 3 positions (1-3) and he's a 9 year vet who has played 3 years with the Celtics.  So there is your experience and versatility. 

And let's not forget that he actually had a few good playoff games and appeared in 15 total playoff games last year. 

By no means am I suggesting that he should be part of the rotation.  But let's not forget that he had a few bright moments last year and would be potentially helpful as the 12th man in a Miami series where he could be a third guy we can throw on LeBron if Pierce and/or Green get in foul trouble.   

Would I prefer Pietrus or 2008 Posey?  Absolutely, but I don't see anyone of that caliber agreeing to come here for the minimum to essentially ride the bench all year as an insurance policy. 

So in my book, Daniels is about as good as it gets. 

[slamtheking]

poll needs an option for 'leaving a position open'.

I think Joseph is a done deal. 

I think that last spot will go to a big man not Xmas IF it's gets used at all.  They're don't need another guard.  They need someone that can play center or C/PF.  Birdman's ok, Martin is ok but I wouldn't be surprised at all if they leave that slot vacant to start the season.

[Mencius]

poll needs an option for 'leaving a position open'.

Agree. 

We already have two rookies in Sully and Melo.  I don't want 4 rooks going into the season.  We're not the Bobcats.  I'd forego both Joseph and Christmas to bring Pietrus back, if he'd take the BAE.  He's a solid defender who can defend both the 2 and the 3, and has good playoff experience.

[Chris]

poll needs an option for 'leaving a position open'.

I think Joseph is a done deal. 

I think that last spot will go to a big man not Xmas IF it's gets used at all.  They're don't need another guard.  They need someone that can play center or C/PF.  Birdman's ok, Martin is ok but I wouldn't be surprised at all if they leave that slot vacant to start the season.

See, I think signing Xmas is essentially leaving the roster spot open.  Since, he would be able to be cut in December, and his contract wouldn't be guaranteed.  Basically, it would just be an extra practice body and a chance for him to prove himself with no risk.

[Mencius]

Again, that's all well and good based on the in-game situations.  The concern I have is when Pierce (soon to be 35, and always dealing with nagging injuries) has to sit out a few games, when we're going to be forced to play Lee at the 3 regardless of who he's matched up against.  If Miami's going with LeBron and Rashard Lewis at the forwards, who does Lee defend? 

Obviously, Green would be getting the bulk of those SF minutes, but he can't play all 48. 

I'd rather have some options on the bench.  Even a guy like Sasha was able to come in and give us some decent defense at the SF last year.  We don't really have a guy like that on the bench right now.  I just see that as being a bigger need than another PG, or *another* big man (other than Chris Anderson, who would be an interesting signing because he'd immediately become a rotation player). 

I'm right there with your take.  I'd say at this point, an insurance SF with some size is as priority, and I'd rather it be a vet with playoff experience than a rook .

[Mencius]

Again, that's all well and good based on the in-game situations.  The concern I have is when Pierce (soon to be 35, and always dealing with nagging injuries) has to sit out a few games, when we're going to be forced to play Lee at the 3 regardless of who he's matched up against.  If Miami's going with LeBron and Rashard Lewis at the forwards, who does Lee defend? 

Obviously, Green would be getting the bulk of those SF minutes, but he can't play all 48. 

I'd rather have some options on the bench.  Even a guy like Sasha was able to come in and give us some decent defense at the SF last year.  We don't really have a guy like that on the bench right now.  I just see that as being a bigger need than another PG, or *another* big man (other than Chris Anderson, who would be an interesting signing because he'd immediately become a rotation player). 

I agree.  I'd prefer Daniels over any of the young guys.  I like the experience and versatility he brings. 

That said, even if Pierce went down, assuming that Bradley is back when this occurs, I think Doc gives Green 30+ minutes and Lee most, if not all, of the rest of the minutes. 

So yes, I like the idea of vet to give us extra security, but unless the vet is darn good (and it's quite unlikely), we're going to be better off playing Lee out of position as the backup 3. 

Marquis brings experience and versatility? I thought he brought injuries and inconsistency... if he wants to hang out with the team and be their friend he can, but I'd prefer the Celtics don't pay for him to hang out and do nothing.

Marquis plays 3 positions (1-3) and he's a 9 year vet who has played 3 years with the Celtics.  So there is your experience and versatility. 

And let's not forget that he actually had a few good playoff games and appeared in 15 total playoff games last year. 

By no means am I suggesting that he should be part of the rotation.  But let's not forget that he had a few bright moments last year and would be potentially helpful as the 12th man in a Miami series where he could be a third guy we can throw on LeBron if Pierce and/or Green get in foul trouble.   

Would I prefer Pietrus or 2008 Posey?  Absolutely, but I don't see anyone of that caliber agreeing to come here for the minimum to essentially ride the bench all year as an insurance policy. 

So in my book, Daniels is about as good as it gets. 

That makes perfect sense to me, Jon.  That vet SF would be just an insurance guy, in case of injury anyway, and with Green taking the minutes that Pietrus would have taken last year, I don't Pietrus would be interested in just being an insurance guy, no matter how much he likes the Celtics.  So given those considerations, I'd prefer Marquis over a couple of rookies, too.  And Quis would probably play for the vet min.