The myth that we are an improved version of last years team.

[Lightskinsmurf]

Didn't quote the way i wanted it to ugh.

[crimson_stallion]

I can see where both sides if the argument are coming from regarding last year's team.

s far as talent goes, last year's bench really was terrible, and (as another said) scraping the bottom of the barrel.  The only guy on the second unit who was considered starter material any time in their career was Pietrus, and even he was a pretty limited player (streaky 3PT shooting and occasional tough defence).

BUT what those guys gave up in talent they largely made up for with pure toughness, effort, hustle, and never-say-die attitude.  There was one ECF game against the heat which was won by a completely different big 3 - Pietrus, Marquis and Dooling.  Those three guys cane out and for a good 5-8 minutes they played crushing defence, hit crucial shots, and grabbed critical rebounds.  Without those guys, we lost that game.

This is part of the reason I really value the addition of Terry on our bench.  He's not only a hell of a scorer and a solid playmaker, but he's a guy with a winners mentality who (like those guys) will leave it all in the lin and give 110% effort every night.  The same cam be said for Wilcox - his energy was huge last yearwhen he was in.  Lee, Green and even Sullinger are more talented then anyone we had on that team, but its in those mental aspects if the game that they still need to prove themselves.

This is why I hope to god we being one more guy back from last year just as a bench warmer and glue guy.  Pietrus is unlike for that role. as he deserves more minutes, but either Dooling or Marquis (even both) would be appreciated additions at this point in my min
Stiemsma had his good and bad points.  To say all Ye did was blocked shots us selling him shirt.  He blocked more shots per 48 then I think anyone else in the league, he shot the third highest FG% on the team from midrange (behind Wilcox and Bas, above Garnett), he rebounded at a decent (if not elite) rate, and he was a good effort guy. Plus if you look at his statistics he was actually a pretty decent passer.

Down side is that aside from shot blocking, he wasn't a great defender.  He looked list at tines on team defense, not getting to his spots.  He also struggled 1-on-1 against bigger/stronger bigs, who regularly pushed him around inside.  Plus there is the obvious point they he got close to fouling out every game, often forcing KG to play more minutes than they wanted to and giving the opposing team free points from the free throw line

So he wasn't the breakout center or dominant center some make him out to he, but he was pretty solid and a skilled guy.  Remember he wasn't really healthy all season either.

[gpap]

Other than our starting 5, there are exactly 0 players on this years team from the squad that was one game away from the finals last season. 
Dooling became Terry
Ray became Lee
Pietrus became Green
Hollins became Wilcox
Stiemsma became Collins
JaJuan became Sullinger
Moore became Smith/B.A.E
Sean Williams became Fab Melo
Pavlovic became Kris Joseph
Daniels became Christmas

That's one heck of an upgrade in talent.  The only step backwards is Ray/Lee, but it can be argued that Lee is a better fit for the role.  Not many teams have 2/3 roster turnover.  We are a radically different team from last year.  We're a much better team.

Well it sounds like it's not a myth then...

Lol, I know. This title threw me for a loop. I was about to get really angry when I read the thread

[tonyto3690]

Lets be honest here people.

Greg and Hollins were great Celtics but every minute they were on the court in the playoffs, they were a massive liability we had to endure to rest one of KG or Bass.

Pietrus and Dooling did much better, but to say they held their own would be the top end of what they accomplished.

I remember celebrating one game because our bench scored ten points.

[rocknrollforyoursoul]

Oh. OK. Now I get it. The title is somewhat misleading.

[Celtics4ever]

I think this team is deeper as a whole.  It also has some younger legs at a few positions which should help against athletic teams.

[kozlodoev]

Our new signings are, in many ways, the same type of players as the ones we had last season, only better. With a couple of notable exceptions of course. So yeah, we're very much an improved version of last year's team.

[j804]

can somebody change the thread title, it doesn't make sense with the OP and is bothering me

loll

[Neurotic Guy]

Love this thread.  Classic off-season sports arguments held solely for the sake of argument.

Argument #1:  Is the team a better 'new' team, or is it an 'improved' team?  Thank goodness for the provocative thread title!


Argument #2:  Are Dooling, Stiemsma and Pietrus hard-working, but easily replaceable scrubs, or are they hard-working, but easily replaceable subs?  Fast-track this one to the Supreme Court.

[aporel#18]

The thread title was a bad option, but it's an interesting subject.

We're not a new team vs and improved version because of the quantity of new players, because the core is basically intact (minus Benedict).

But even if the starters are the most relevant pieces of the team, I think this team will be very different in their approach to the game, so maybe the OP is right and this is a different team.

KG and Pierce were forced to play excessive minutes last year, due to injuries and lack of reliable bench. Rondo had to play the entire game in some of the playoff games. We had to start Bass (who was suited to be the 2nd unit scorer) and Avery made the most of his chance to start.

This year we have Wilcox/Sullinger and even Collins who can fill minutes behind KG. We have Green and maybe (hopefully) a healthy Pietrus who can spell the Captain. We need to give the JET some minutes at the PG spot so Rondo will have to rest a bit. KG and PP's minutes will decrease big time, at least in the Regular Season.

This leads to Doc's rotation strategy. Green/JET/Lee/Wilcox are reliable players who have started in this league. This means Doc will need to work the rotation, allowing them to find their game rythm. It won't be some guys giving rest to the starters anymore. You'll have different lineups and you'll have the right players to go every different route: run&gun, lockdown D, small ball, BIG team... and this time Doc won't be forced to do it because of his lack of confidence on the bench guys. It will be more like in 08, with Posey, PJ, Powe, House, and even BBD and the Alien. He'll have real control of his options.

I hope we sign Dooling & Pietrus because they did contribute in the playoffs, they'll be helpful in certain situations, and they'll be insurance in case of injury. I trust in Doc to make the most of this roster to win it all.

[SHAQATTACK]

Franky I think it is too early to tell.  One would assume and hope the newer look Celtics will be better.  I'm a dyed in the wool Celtic , but I really think we are rebuilt to be ALOT better once , the new guys and rookies get a few months practice and training in.

Having AB , Wilcox , Green back and signing Jet & Lee and some hopeful Rookie help from Sully.

 should MORE than offset losing Allen , JO , Dooling , Moore, JJJ and PIetrus and Hollins amd Steamer.

The team beyond our BIG THREE &Bass , is quite different than the team that was on the floor during the playoffs .

I believe DA and Doc have assembled a nice group that should mesh really good.

We are just A BIG NAME center away from kicking everybodies behinds. 

If Andrew  Bynum could be made to behave , he would be a great addition to this line up . He is natural grind it out center, and would thrive in our offense. 

[cman88]

just having Terry and Green makes our bench better than last year...

[hpantazo]

I can't understand who anyone would think we are not much improved compared to last year's team. This year's team is a major improvement for the present and for the future.

[bfrombleacher]

"The myth that we are only any improved version of last year's team"

"The myth that our moves were only minor"

"The myth that we didn't improve much"

[gar]

Quis and Dooling may have won us a playoff game. Stiemsma was big during the season.

wonder why no one is asking for a Marquis Daniels appreciation. He gave a lot more than Greg, Hollins or Dooling over the years.