Why did we sign Jamar Smith?

[BudweiserCeltic]

Which is why I see value in someone like Christmas for us, who can cover 1, 2, and 3 if we get to that point (and to get to that point, we'd have to suffer quite a bit of injuries).

For our undersized guard situation, he'd fit in nicely with his size, and it's a body you can throw as SF if there's no one else to cover it.

I really don't see Christmas as a regular rotation guy. Him, Joseph, and Melo are insurance/developmental players.

That goes without saying. But he's the "prototype" of someone I'd like as a safety net. Spend one roster spot on a guy who can cover various different roles and positions for your team. It's really what Daniels was for us, but I think at this point, from what I've seen and jury is still out, Christmas has potential to offer more right now.

At this point, other than a big that Ainge might find, we're beyond talking about regular rotation guys.

He _is_ insurance, but currently we only have 3 players for 2 positions in front of him. This is much worse than the number of players we can use before we get to our developmental guy at SF (2 players for 1 position, without considering Lee) and bigs (5 players for 2 positions).

What positions are we talking about? As mentioned, Christmas is the type that can cover 3 positions for us. I assume you're also discounting Pierce's usage as a SG if needed be.

I think you're using too much liberties on what to count and what not to count for our wings, and taking too much liberties on what to count towards our bigs.

[kozlodoev]

Which is why I see value in someone like Christmas for us, who can cover 1, 2, and 3 if we get to that point (and to get to that point, we'd have to suffer quite a bit of injuries).

For our undersized guard situation, he'd fit in nicely with his size, and it's a body you can throw as SF if there's no one else to cover it.

I really don't see Christmas as a regular rotation guy. Him, Joseph, and Melo are insurance/developmental players.

That goes without saying. But he's the "prototype" of someone I'd like as a safety net. Spend one roster spot on a guy who can cover various different roles and positions for your team. It's really what Daniels was for us, but I think at this point, from what I've seen and jury is still out, Christmas has potential to offer more right now.

At this point, other than a big that Ainge might find, we're beyond talking about regular rotation guys.

He _is_ insurance, but currently we only have 3 players for 2 positions in front of him. This is much worse than the number of players we can use before we get to our developmental guy at SF (2 players for 1 position, without considering Lee) and bigs (5 players for 2 positions).

What positions are we talking about? As mentioned, Christmas is the type that can cover 3 positions for us. I assume you're also discounting Pierce's usage as a SG if needed be.

I think you're using too much liberties on what to count and what not to count for our wings, and taking too much liberties on what to count towards our bigs.

You realize that if the season started tomorrow, we'll have 3 guys and Christmas to man the PG and SG position, right? Pierce isn't really able to play SG for more than spot minutes at this stage of his career.

And yes, I think Lee at SF is more reliable than Christmas at pretty much any position. Also, given that we have 6 bigs currently, I'm pretty sure Sullinger can be relied to be the fifth-stringer,given that Doc has toyed with the idea of him starting (which will quite obviously not happen, but it's indicative of how the team perceives him).

[the_Bird]

I'm still got Dooling pencilled into a return engagement next year with one of the remaining roster spots.  He's not likely going to command more than the vet minimum, and he's s good guy to have around for depth at both positions and for the locker room/Rondo mentorship.  He seems to like it here, he can have a small role on the team and learn how to become a coach under Doc, and he's a good fit for our remaining needs.  And, I don't see him getting a contract offer from someone else that would be any higher than the vet min. 

[kozlodoev]

I'm still got Dooling pencilled into a return engagement next year with one of the remaining roster spots.  He's not likely going to command more than the vet minimum, and he's s good guy to have around for depth at both positions and for the locker room/Rondo mentorship.  He seems to like it here, he can have a small role on the team and learn how to become a coach under Doc, and he's a good fit for our remaining needs.  And, I don't see him getting a contract offer from someone else that would be any higher than the vet min. 

I absolutely have Dooling penciled in for the 14th spot too. Then you still have 1 spot you can fill with Christmas. But I don't think that we'll waive Joseph to sign another SF.

[BudweiserCeltic]

Which is why I see value in someone like Christmas for us, who can cover 1, 2, and 3 if we get to that point (and to get to that point, we'd have to suffer quite a bit of injuries).

For our undersized guard situation, he'd fit in nicely with his size, and it's a body you can throw as SF if there's no one else to cover it.

I really don't see Christmas as a regular rotation guy. Him, Joseph, and Melo are insurance/developmental players.

That goes without saying. But he's the "prototype" of someone I'd like as a safety net. Spend one roster spot on a guy who can cover various different roles and positions for your team. It's really what Daniels was for us, but I think at this point, from what I've seen and jury is still out, Christmas has potential to offer more right now.

At this point, other than a big that Ainge might find, we're beyond talking about regular rotation guys.

He _is_ insurance, but currently we only have 3 players for 2 positions in front of him. This is much worse than the number of players we can use before we get to our developmental guy at SF (2 players for 1 position, without considering Lee) and bigs (5 players for 2 positions).

What positions are we talking about? As mentioned, Christmas is the type that can cover 3 positions for us. I assume you're also discounting Pierce's usage as a SG if needed be.

I think you're using too much liberties on what to count and what not to count for our wings, and taking too much liberties on what to count towards our bigs.

You realize that if the season started tomorrow, we'll have 3 guys and Christmas to man the PG and SG position, right?

And yes, I think Lee at SF is more reliable than Christmas at pretty much any position. Also, given that we have 6 bigs currently, I'm pretty sure Sullinger can be relied to be the fifth-stringer,given that Doc has toyed with the idea of him starting (which will quite obviously not happen, but it's indicative of how the team perceives him).

Ah, I see. We're not counting Bradley into this equation. And again, still discounting Pierce's usage as a SG if needed be. As I mentioned before, the 3 roster spaces that are left I want 2 of them to be for wing players, someone like Joseph and Christmas, not necessarily them, but players in that mold.

The problem with our bigs is that while we have quantity (and some quality) our center depth is a bit poor at the moment, else we'd be forced to play undersized with pretty much 1 injury.

2 more wings as a safety net for the 1-3 positions, and one more big that is more 5 than 4, and we've pretty much done all we can to cover for injuries. Now it's a matter of finding the right guys for the job.

But using 3 roster spots for Christmas, Dooling, and Joseph would be quite a waste in my opinion.

[the_Bird]

I'm still got Dooling pencilled into a return engagement next year with one of the remaining roster spots.  He's not likely going to command more than the vet minimum, and he's s good guy to have around for depth at both positions and for the locker room/Rondo mentorship.  He seems to like it here, he can have a small role on the team and learn how to become a coach under Doc, and he's a good fit for our remaining needs.  And, I don't see him getting a contract offer from someone else that would be any higher than the vet min. 

I absolutely have Dooling penciled in for the 14th spot too. Then you still have 1 spot you can fill with Christmas. But I don't think that we'll waive Joseph to sign another SF.

Are we counting the same?  I have 12 roster spots right now, not counting Joseph or Christmas.  Add Dooling.  Add my theoretical veteran SF.  Add either Joseph OR Christmas, not both.  That gets us to 15, right? 

That also leaves us with a PG rotation of:
Rondo/Terry/Dooling/AB (when healthy)

... and a SG rotation of:
Lee/Terry/AB (when healthy)/Dooling (emergency)

... and now we're three-deep at SF, and we still have either Joseph OR Christmas (let 'em battle it out) as a development project for the wings. 

[kozlodoev]

Ah, I see. We're not counting Bradley into this equation. And again, still discounting Pierce's usage as a SG if needed be. As I mentioned before, the 3 roster spaces that are left I want 2 of them to be for wing players, someone like Joseph and Christmas, not necessarily them, but players in that mold.

The problem with our bigs is that while we have quantity (and some quality) our center depth is a bit poor at the moment, else we'd be forced to play undersized with pretty much 1 injury.

2 more wings as a safety net for the 1-3 positions, and one more big that is more 5 than 4, and we've pretty much done all we can to cover for injuries. Now it's a matter of finding the right guys for the job.

But using 3 roster spots for Christmas, Dooling, and Joseph would be quite a waste in my opinion.

I don't think we'll carry 7 bigs, even if Melo is a project that would never sniff the court. Also, if you consider Christmas a 3 position player, then your two insurance wings are accounted for.


It is possible we sign another big, but with Garnett, Collins, Wilcox, Sullinger and Melo all opgood for (a varying amount of) minutes at the 5, I think this position is pretty much a non-issue.

[kozlodoev]

I'm still got Dooling pencilled into a return engagement next year with one of the remaining roster spots.  He's not likely going to command more than the vet minimum, and he's s good guy to have around for depth at both positions and for the locker room/Rondo mentorship.  He seems to like it here, he can have a small role on the team and learn how to become a coach under Doc, and he's a good fit for our remaining needs.  And, I don't see him getting a contract offer from someone else that would be any higher than the vet min.  

I absolutely have Dooling penciled in for the 14th spot too. Then you still have 1 spot you can fill with Christmas. But I don't think that we'll waive Joseph to sign another SF.

Are we counting the same?  I have 12 roster spots right now, not counting Joseph or Christmas.  Add Dooling.  Add my theoretical veteran SF.  Add either Joseph OR Christmas, not both.  That gets us to 15, right?  

I have Joseph pretty much penciled in, based on the salary/contribution/team control value proposition, and the Celtics' history with similar players.

[the_Bird]

I'm still got Dooling pencilled into a return engagement next year with one of the remaining roster spots.  He's not likely going to command more than the vet minimum, and he's s good guy to have around for depth at both positions and for the locker room/Rondo mentorship.  He seems to like it here, he can have a small role on the team and learn how to become a coach under Doc, and he's a good fit for our remaining needs.  And, I don't see him getting a contract offer from someone else that would be any higher than the vet min. 

I absolutely have Dooling penciled in for the 14th spot too. Then you still have 1 spot you can fill with Christmas. But I don't think that we'll waive Joseph to sign another SF.

Are we counting the same?  I have 12 roster spots right now, not counting Joseph or Christmas.  Add Dooling.  Add my theoretical veteran SF.  Add either Joseph OR Christmas, not both.  That gets us to 15, right? 

I have Joseph _and_ Christmas and no other wings.

That's where we will disagree.  I'll take one or the other of those guys, and use a roster spot instead on a vet.  I just don't want to have to count on Lee at the SF, I don't think any of the PFs have the athleticism to shift to the SF spot, and I don't want to count on a rookie to have to potentially contribute.  I'd rather only take on developmental wing into next season.

[BudweiserCeltic]

Ah, I see. We're not counting Bradley into this equation. And again, still discounting Pierce's usage as a SG if needed be. As I mentioned before, the 3 roster spaces that are left I want 2 of them to be for wing players, someone like Joseph and Christmas, not necessarily them, but players in that mold.

The problem with our bigs is that while we have quantity (and some quality) our center depth is a bit poor at the moment, else we'd be forced to play undersized with pretty much 1 injury.

2 more wings as a safety net for the 1-3 positions, and one more big that is more 5 than 4, and we've pretty much done all we can to cover for injuries. Now it's a matter of finding the right guys for the job.

But using 3 roster spots for Christmas, Dooling, and Joseph would be quite a waste in my opinion.

I don't think we'll carry 7 bigs, even if Melo is a project that would never sniff the court. Also, if you consider Christmas a 3 position player, then your two insurance wings are accounted for.


It is possible we sign another big, but with Garnett, Collins, Wilcox, Sullinger and Melo all opgood for (a varying amount of) minutes at the 5, I think this position is pretty much a non-issue.

It's not really about players that can play the position, but how they can play and against who they can match-up etc.

Melo is a project as you mentioned, Sulliger I very much doubt he'd be any effective as a 5. We have players to throw at the position in an emergency, but that's about it.

I'll tell you this much, I'm 150% more comfortable with Lee at the 3 than Sullinger at the 5.

[kozlodoev]

It's not really about players that can play the position, but how they can play and against who they can match-up etc.

We do small ball for stretches as a legit tactic. It has worked in the past.

The point is that even with this argument, we have much fewer players to "throw" at guard than at wing or big.

[BudweiserCeltic]

It's not really about players that can play the position, but how they can play and against who they can match-up etc.

We do small ball for stretches as a legit tactic. It has worked in the past.

The point is that even with this argument, we have much fewer players to "throw" at guard than at wing or big.

Which is why I want 2 of the 3 for wing players, but even then I don't think we're counting the same.

And I have no problem with small ball, I actually like it. My only concern is being forced to it, which can happen with pretty much just one injury.

[guava_wrench]

I think some are exaggerating the impact of signing a min rookie on our cap numbers. Those types of players usually get partially guaranteed contracts. We would be able to take them for a trial run and then cut them without having most of their contract count against us. If we then made a late season pickup, that would likely be a prorated contract, likely for less than half a season.

[Rtpas11]

Jamar Smith is still a good pick up for the back-up position. He looked decent based on the youtube vids. Seeing what I saw from him, I see no difference bewtween him & Dooling. I think he's actually better.

[Celtics4ever]

For a camp body, period, then to cut him...