Does the Lee Acquisition = Small Ball?

[Jon]

I'll also add this: while I don't expect Green to start the season as the starting power forward, I think it's entirely possible that he's there by season's end. 

[Who]

When Doc goes small, I don't see how playing Courtney Lee at SF is ever a better option than a Pierce/Green forward combination.

So I wouldn't like it to be part of the regular rotation.

[Jon]

When Doc goes small, I don't see how playing Courtney Lee at SF is ever a better option than a Pierce/Green forward combination.

So I wouldn't like it to be part of the regular rotation.

You're certainly right in a playoff rotation, but assume these things:

1) We want to keep Pierce's minutes at 30 or less in the regular season 

2) Green proves to be more valuable at the 4 spot than Bass, since Green can also shoot open jumpers well and Bass really doesn't provide much in the way of big man skills (rebounding, shot blocking, size). 

3) Sullinger doesn't light the world on fire right away.

Under these circumstances I could see something like this for the regular season, if not extending at a somewhat diminished rate in the playoffs:

SF-Pierce 30 mpg/
PF-Green 28 mpg/Bass 20 mpg

Now you could give Green another 5 minutes or so at the 3 spot or you could play Green a little less at the 4 and a little more at the 3, but the point remains that in this scenario there appears to be at least 5-10 mpg (if not more) for Lee to get some minutes at the 3. 

And he's certainly a better option than going to whatever other wing options we come up with. 

And I know people hate this point, but I think it has some truth: I don't think the C's just traded away last year's first round pick (despite his underwhelming performance), some other pieces, and agreed to pay Lee 4-5 million a year to have him play spot minutes.

[Fafnir]

Green has never been a positive at the PF position thousands of minutes at the position for OKC, I'd be shocked if he suddenly became one now.

If we're playing the Heat and they have Battier as their "PF" for most of the minutes, sure, but against most teams.....

[Vermont Green]

I hope not.  In my opinion, teams only play small ball when they can't play tall ball.  I would always take tall ball over small ball if given the choice.

Keep in mind that just because we play KG at C, doesn't exactly make us small. For example, how would an opposing team match up with this line up:

Rondo
Pierce
Green
Wilcox
Garnett

Or

Rondo
Lee
Pierce
Sullinger
Garnett

[Who]

And I know people hate this point, but I think it has some truth: I don't think the C's just traded away last year's first round pick (despite his underwhelming performance), some other pieces, and agreed to pay Lee 4-5 million a year to have him play spot minutes.

I agree with what you are saying here, I am just not sure it's in the best interests of the team.

[Evantime34]

I agree with the OP's minute distribution. I think Doc is able to keep everyone happy minutes wise due to injuries and resting of older players.

[Jon]

A few points to the comments above:

1) I think it's obvious that we'd all love to be LA and have a traditional PF and C.  

2) We don't have those.  And in my opinion, 6 out of 8 best players (and maybe 6 out of 7, depending on how one views Bass) could probably be classified as wings or smaller.  I think to utilize our talent the best, it behooves us to go small.

3) I think Miami isn't so much the exception as LA is now with its big frontline.  I think the league is shifting to smaller lineups for large chunks of the game to utilize the greater talent at the wing spots in the league.  Sure, NY has Tyson Chandler, but they do go small at times with Stoudemire at the 5 and Melo at the 4.  Same with OKC, who slides Harden into the 2 spot, pushing everyone else up one spot and Perk out during chunks of the game.  

4) Even if you disagree with points 1-3, I think the reality of the situation is we're going to play small ball.  Financial commitments aside, Doc Rivers often went with Posey at the 4 in '08 to close out games when he had Kendrick Perkins, PJ Brown, Leon Powe, and BBD all at his disposal.  Given that he now has less big man depth and that Green is far better offensively than Posey, I think we'll be seeing quite a big of small ball this year.  Doc has even said so.  

[mctyson]

A few points to the comments above:

1) I think it's obvious that we'd all love to be LA and have a traditional PF and C.  

We actually do.  KG is as close to a C as you will find in the league these days. 

I know he is a rookie, but Sullinger is about as close to a prototypical NBA PF as it gets.


As for the OP's question:  we are going to see all sorts of lineups next year.  Even with the trade of Moore and JJJ, minutes are still tough to come by.

Doc is going to earn his keep next year.

[snively]

Green has never been a positive at the PF position thousands of minutes at the position for OKC, I'd be shocked if he suddenly became one now.

If we're playing the Heat and they have Battier as their "PF" for most of the minutes, sure, but against most teams.....

I think Doc may be keen on using Green as a "PF" just like Miami did with Battier, not just to match up with other teams. 

In other words, KG = Bosh, Green = Battier, Bass (or Sullinger) = Haslem, center-to-be-named = Turiaf/Anthony

Then, to continue the equation on the perimeter Rondo = LeBron, Pierce = Wade, Terry/Bradley = Chalmers/Cole and Lee = Miller/Jones

[guava_wrench]

To the original poster, no, the Lee Acquisition does not mean small ball. Lee is the same size as Ray but demands less minutes than Ray.

It is the signing of Terry and the loss of Ray that means more small ball. But Sullinger means our small ball is not so small since if Sullinger increases his role, than we could see Rondo/Terry/Pierce/Sullinger/KG closing out games.

Small ball is not such a big issue. The bigger issue is KG's decreasing ability to jump for rebounds. He may have been rejuvenated last season, but he still let a lot of rebounds pass over his head due to old legs.

[ainge]

I think small ball is inevitable with this roster, and I won't pretend to be able to figure out the rotations that Doc is going to use (which I'm very excited for with the likely addition of CLee)

With SG I think it would be interesting to see Lee and Bradley come pretty close splitting minutes (based more on rotations and how well lee clicks with RR)

Personally I could see one possibility working out like this:

PG - Rondo 34/ Terry 14
SG - Lee 21/ Bradley 21/ Terry 6
SF - Pierce 26/ Green 17/ Lee 5
PF - Bass 28/ Green 10/ Garnett 5/ Sully 5
C - Garnett 23/ Wilcox 19/ Vet Min or Melo 6

Just one possible way of it panning out...could be completely off

*Side note, I'm new to the forum/forums in general so take it easy on me - I'm just a guy who loves the Celtics and has some random thoughts and opinions I'd like to talk about with fellow Celtics fans.

Thats, kind of how I see it, but with Bradley getting more minutes than Lee rather than the other way around.  And I think that Bradley will start once he comes back, although he may have to earn the spot back

Rondo 34 mpg / Terry 14 mpg

Bradley 25 mpg / Lee 14 mpg / Terry 9 mpg

Pierce 28 mpg / Green 15 mpg / Lee 5 mpg

Bass 25 mpg / Green 11 mpg / Sullinger 12 mpg

Garnett 26 mpg / Wilcox 15 mpg / Melo 7 mpg


Rondo 34 mpg
Pierce 28 mpg
Garnett 26 mpg
Green 26 mpg
Bass 25 mpg
Bradley 25 mpg
Terry 23 mpg
Lee 19 mpg
Wiclox 15 mpg
Sullinger 12 mpg
Melo 7 mpg (or stiemsma with the BAE)

I think it is going to be very challenging for doc to manage a lineup that is this deep.  It will take a while for rotations to cement themselves, and we may not truly click until after the allstar break.  Honestly, im a little worried that we're TOO deep. However, injuries will make it easier for everyone to get their minutes, and the team seems to be full of guys whose egos wont get in the way of winning.