2012 - CB draft board "Let's get it on!"

[Roy H.]

Where did you find that? Can I get a link?

http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=31053.msg560636#msg560636

[KCattheStripe]

I was thinking today, because my work sched finally calmed down, about a team I would buy Monta on. If a team had a three guard rotation of George Hill/ ( Wes Matthews/ Courtney Lee/Brandon Rush)/ Monta I think that would be excellent.

[Who]

Wrong thread ... sorry, please ignore this post.

[The Walker Wiggle]

As for your team, I don't like the unknowns. I don't like that no one knows how good Davis will be his rookie year or how good Teletovic actually is. Will Darrell Arthur ( Whom I love) bounce back from his injury or will you be relying on Bismack Biyombo? I really don't like injury prone Delonte West and injury prone Josh Howard backing up injury prone Manu Ginobili. Just way too much uncertainty. If it all works out, kudos to you. But in a game of perception, I can't get past what I don't know on this team.

Fair enough. You're wrong about Davis though. And it's not as if I need him for more than 14-9 and 2.5 blocks.

For the record, since I'm getting a lot of pushback on the rookie, Kevin Pelton of Basketball Prospectus is projecting him at  14.5 points 11.8 rebounds 1.2  assists. Even I'll be surprised if he flirts with 12 rebounds per game.

As for the rotation, Josh Howard not on the team, he's been replaced by Jonas Jerebko. So -1 G.S. injury concern. And behind Manu and Delonte, Alec Burks. And Channing Frye is still ahead of Biyombo even if Arthur isn't ready.

But anyway don't be too hard on Bismack. In 32 games post-All Star break he put up 6.6 points, 7.1 rebounds and 2 blocks in short minutes, that's a rookie freshly arrived in the states, sans training camp, sans summer league. He's doing two a day practices in Charlotte right now. I love this kid.

[The Walker Wiggle]

It's been a lot of fun, hat tip to everybody. But if I may ask one favor, would you all just put down some dismissive comments or mediocre projections RE: Anthony Davis, Klay Thompson, Andre Iguodala, whoever. Tommy points to all participants. It just makes it much easier for me to find mid-season.

KC I'm looking at you right now. Thanks in advance.

Hmmmm.....Iguodala will suck in Denver just like the other AI did.

Nick gets my Tommy Points anybody else?

[ronaldo943]

It's been a lot of fun, hat tip to everybody. But if I may ask one favor, would you all just put down some dismissive comments or mediocre projections RE: Anthony Davis, Klay Thompson, Andre Iguodala, whoever. Tommy points to all participants. It just makes it much easier for me to find mid-season.

KC I'm looking at you right now. Thanks in advance.

Hmmmm.....Iguodala will suck in Denver just like the other AI did.

Nick gets my Tommy Points anybody else?

Jonas Jerebko will be an all star and will definetly be in the race for mvp

[The Walker Wiggle]

It's been a lot of fun, hat tip to everybody. But if I may ask one favor, would you all just put down some dismissive comments or mediocre projections RE: Anthony Davis, Klay Thompson, Andre Iguodala, whoever. Tommy points to all participants. It just makes it much easier for me to find mid-season.

KC I'm looking at you right now. Thanks in advance.

Hmmmm.....Iguodala will suck in Denver just like the other AI did.

Nick gets my Tommy Points anybody else?

Jonas Jerebko will be an all star and will definetly be in the race for mvp

You're bagging on me for my waiver signing of 7th round pick Jonas Jerebko? He's not a world beater but he can fill in as a starter, still produce off the bench, defend both forward positions passably, and is top-50 in the league doing off the ball clean-up, scoring off cuts (1.31) and offensive rebounds (1.18). That's what I want in a fourth forward.

Wizards could used a guy like that behind their first rate starting five. Michael Beasley and J.R. Smith are why Roy Hobbs shouldn't be so hung up on PPG.

[nickagneta]

It's been a lot of fun, hat tip to everybody. But if I may ask one favor, would you all just put down some dismissive comments or mediocre projections RE: Anthony Davis, Klay Thompson, Andre Iguodala, whoever. Tommy points to all participants. It just makes it much easier for me to find mid-season.

KC I'm looking at you right now. Thanks in advance.

Hmmmm.....Iguodala will suck in Denver just like the other AI did.

Nick gets my Tommy Points anybody else?

Davis will not win ROY because someine else is just better than him.

Jonas Jerebko will be an all star and will definetly be in the race for mvp

[jgod213]

Wiggz, i had you pegged as a 7th seed (bumped to 8th when i factor my team in).  Part of my issue is similar to what KC mentioned, in that there are a lot of unknowns involved here, but i also feel like you're putting maybe too much on the shoulders of Davis defensively.

You have 3 suspect defenders in that starting unit with Thompson, Manu, and Mirza.

I don't know much about Mirzzz, but i was reading up a bit and came across this from draftexpress:

Mirza Teletovic's defense hurts him NBA-wise, but I think biggest problem is he's such a mediocre defensive rebounder

I know Iggy helps a lot here, but i feel like you're inviting a lot of help-fouls on Davis and relying on him to clean up everyone's mess.  He'll obviously block a ton of shots, but he still has a learning curve himself.

I don't think this team will have any trouble scoring whatsoever.  There might be the occasional turnover frenzy or two without a pure point running the show, but ultimately i think there are a ton of points to go around with a nice mix of great shooters and athletes. Again, i just have concerns that there will be too much, too soon on Davis' shoulders - especially when he's playing in the best Division in the CB league.

[The Walker Wiggle]

Wiggz, i had you pegged as a 7th seed (bumped to 8th when i factor my team in).  Part of my issue is similar to what KC mentioned, in that there are a lot of unknowns involved here, but i also feel like you're putting maybe too much on the shoulders of Davis defensively.

You have 3 suspect defenders in that starting unit with Thompson, Manu, and Mirza.

I don't know much about Mirzzz, but i was reading up a bit and came across this from draftexpress:

Mirza Teletovic's defense hurts him NBA-wise, but I think biggest problem is he's such a mediocre defensive rebounder

I know Iggy helps a lot here, but i feel like you're inviting a lot of help-fouls on Davis and relying on him to clean up everyone's mess.  He'll obviously block a ton of shots, but he still has a learning curve himself.

I don't think this team will have any trouble scoring whatsoever.  There might be the occasional turnover frenzy or two without a pure point running the show, but ultimately i think there are a ton of points to go around with a nice mix of great shooters and athletes. Again, i just have concerns that there will be too much, too soon on Davis' shoulders - especially when he's playing in the best Division in the CB league.

Much appreciated. I'd disagree that Manu is a suspect defender. In fact I'd call him a great on the ball defender and he's among the league's best at drawing charges (and selling flops). I will admit that his injuries last season seemingly hampered him more on the defensive end than the offensive end. Thompson is much more vulnerable, but his size and effort level are both very good.

In games that Davis does get into foul trouble I do have help behind him. Biyombo is a phenomenal shot blocker and very strong rebounder. (Obviously he leaves a lot on the table offensively.)

And Darrell Arthur if he can make it back form missing the entire 11-12 season, is one of the league's better defensive reserves and able to play spot minutes at the 5.

And good news on Teletovic.

Mirza's really not too bad of a defender. The simple fact is he guards the post really well. On 128 post possessions recorded by Synergy, he held his opponent to 38.6% shooting and .727 PPP. His defensive post numbers were really good the previous season ('10-11) as well.

He's just a smart, physical defender. Holds his ground well thanks to a strong, wide stance. Seems to know his opponent well as he anticipates well and rarely bites on fakes. Moves feet well down low and usually gets his hands up to challenge the shooter. Expect him to hold up fairly well defending vs. NBA post players.

I'll concede that he's a weak rebounder though. I am asking a lot of Davis in that department. I'd also agree that your assessment of the Dubs' offense, positives and negatives.

[GreenFaith1819]

Is there anywhere I can go for a "One Stop Shop" of everyone's rosters?

[Roy H.]

Is there anywhere I can go for a "One Stop Shop" of everyone's rosters?

Your best route right now is to check out the six press conference threads.  There's this:

http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=59297.0

However, it's not updated, and some of the rosters are wildly out of whack (i.e., Boston no longer has Bynum or Durant; the Knicks have turned over their entire roster other than Monta Ellis, etc.)

[jgod213]

Mirza's really not too bad of a defender. The simple fact is he guards the post really well. On 128 post possessions recorded by Synergy, he held his opponent to 38.6% shooting and .727 PPP. His defensive post numbers were really good the previous season ('10-11) as well.

I guess my follow-up question would be - who was he matching up against? How many nba-caliber power forwards was he playing in a night-in, night-out basis? I did a quick search thru his game log for Caja last season and the names I ran into were, amongst other names that I can't pronounce:

Marko Banic
D'or Fischer
Alex Mumbru
Lazaros Papadopoulos
Kostas Papanikolaou
Maarty Leunen
Adrien Moerman

How can i be sure that those very solid post-defense numbers will translate when he's playing against the likes of Al Horford, Kevin Love, and Dirk Nowitski all year?

I'm really not trying to be dismissive of Mirza - I just don't know much about him. I'm typically very out of the loop when it comes to emerging Euro ballers, but it's evident that there are a bunch of legit contributors coming over this year. I'm doing my best to get ahead of the curve.

[Who]

I will be rating Mirza Teletovic as a rough equivalent of Linas Kleiza. That is the guy that I have seen compared to most often and it seems reasonably accurate.

As a starting PF, I think Kleiza when he was at his best with the Denver Nuggets was good for 16-17ppg on good scoring efficiency. I think Kleiza's perimeter game will cause matchup problems for numerous starting PFs. As a rebounder, I'd say he is firmly below average and would garner about 7.0 to 7.5 rebounds per 36 minutes. As a defender, also firmly below average. Due to his weaknesses as a defender/rebounder, a well below average starting PF (I'd expect him to be in early to mid 20s if ranking the 30 starting PFs) who is best suited to a bench role.

That is roughly what I am pinning Teletovic down for. 

[Roy H.]

I will be rating Mirza Teletovic as a rough equivalent of Linas Kleiza. That is the guy that I have seen compared to most often and it seems reasonably accurate.

As a starting PF, I think Kleiza when he was at his best with the Denver Nuggets was good for 16-17ppg on good scoring efficiency. I think Kleiza's perimeter game will cause matchup problems for numerous starting PFs. As a rebounder, I'd say he is firmly below average and would garner about 7.0 to 7.5 rebounds per 36 minutes. As a defender, also firmly below average. Due to his weaknesses as a defender/rebounder, a well below average starting PF (I'd expect him to be in early to mid 20s if ranking the 30 starting PFs) who is best suited to a bench role.

That is roughly what I am pinning Teletovic down for.

You heard it here first, folks!  Linas Kleiza = more than a 13th man!



Don't knock Kleiza's defense, though -- last year he was excellent.